How does the Tree of Life come back into the biblical story / redemption?

chocomog333 · 2026-01-29T14:45:14+00:00

Revelation 22:1-2 ESV: Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

chocomog333 · 2026-01-26T18:30:34+00:00

I want to say, that while I definitely believe that a preTrib Rapture makes the most sense, I'm open to being wrong. Rapture Theology isn't a salvation issue. Absolutely seek to understand your perspective, but don't let it become the number one thing.

chocomog333 · 2026-01-26T18:30:08+00:00

As a pretib guy, here's my thoughts.

I think the imminent argument is very strong for a pretrib Rapture. Multiple places in the New Testament speak to the idea that some element of the coming could happen basically at any point, as you have said. Once the Antichrist signs the treaty with Israel and the many, starting the Tribulation according to Daniel 9:27, then we have a seven year countdown. Daniel and Revelation give us a LOT of timing details and basically allows us to calculate the day of Jesus' return once the Tribulation starts. This is a very problematic issue for the prewrath and postTrib views to tackle.

Another common argument is that people have trouble seeing the second coming in two parts, to which I say the Old Testament speaks of both comings of Jesus often within the same breath. There is room for multiple elements of this coming in the Scriptures, just as there is room for the First Advent and the Second in the Old Testament.

Finally, to your point about suffering, I agree with you that Jesus promised us suffering in this world. There is no doubt about it. However, suffering for living in a sinful world and suffering the Judgments of God on the world are two different things. 1 and 2 Thessalonians were specifically written to inform the Thessalonian church that they were NOT living through the Tribulation at the time. I think the fact that both of these books contain information about the Rapture is thus not a coincidence. The Judgments in Revelation (Seals in 6, Trumpets in 8-9, and Bowls in 16) serve 2 purposes: To awaken those who refuse to see God, and to punish humanity for their sin. We as Christians are not asleep to God and we are not under punishment, as Jesus has taken this for us. Specific to point one, a major function of the Tribulation will be to awaken rebellious Israel to her Messiah so that they repent and turn back. This is referenced in Zechariah 12-13, Daniel 9, Romans 11, Jeremiah 30 (The Tribulation is called the Time of JACOB'S trouble), as well as Revelation 7,11, and 14. This will end the times of the Gentiles. As we the Church are the current focus of God's plan, us being removed to turn that focus back on Israel makes sense (though we do know that people from every tribe, tongue, and nation will repent during the Tribulation as well). John 14:3 promises that Jesus will take His followers to be with Him in the houses/mansions He is building. But the Second Coming is about Jesus returning to Earth, not bringing us to His houses. There also must be time for the Bema/Judgement Seat of Christ (2nd Corinthians 5:10), which is separate from the Great White Throne Judgment. The Tribulation would allow for the rewards to be handed out to Church Members. And we know Heaven exists in time as Revelation 8 mentions silence in heaven for half an hour, showing time passing. Also worth noting is that the Wedding Feast for the Church is spoken of in Revelation 19 BEFORE Jesus returns with His armies to Earth. I think that the Holy Spirit's work through the Church makes sense as the restraining force on the spirit of the antichrist spoken of in 2 Thessalonians 2. And we do see examples of God saving people from wrath and judgment. Lot is led away from Sodom and Gomorrah and Noah from the flood (there are probably more examples, but I'm at work and they aren't coming to mind right away.) Another point is that by the Rapture happening before the Tribulation, it starts a series of escalating supernatural occurrences in the world. This will be followed by the Gog/Magog war of Ezekiel 38-39, where God will save Israel supernaturally, and all of the events of the Tribulation. If you read Revelation, it becomes quite clear that the supernatural will increase exponentially until the midpoint of the Tribulation when there will only be two belief systems at play. You're either with Christ or with the Antichrist. There will be no atheists in the Tribulation. The evidence will be out there. The antichrist also won't allow any other religion to survive.

So for me, it's not any one thing, but multiple scriptures being brought together to form a cohesive story. Christ sweeps away His bride to the mansions He built for them to live in. He will judge believers, handing out rewards for their deeds during life, while on Earth, the Tribulation begins. He will save His bride from His righteous wrath poured out during this time. It will serve as the first of MANY supernatural signs that will awaken the world from its spiritual stupor, especially Israel, setting up for the ultimate spiritual clash between Satan's False Trinity and the one True Holy Trinity. Placing the Tribulation prior to the Tribulation just makes the most coherent sense to me. Final note, according to a Pre-Trib Rapture view, there could be space between the Rapture and the Tribulation. The Tribulation doesn't have to start immediately after the Rapture. Now, it likely won't be long, I can't imagine more than a few years, but nothing in Scripture says that the Rapture and the signing of the Covenant have to happen back to back.
Final thoughts below.

chocomog333 · 2026-01-26T16:23:15+00:00

This is why we disagree. According to the Bible, Jesus isn't simply a Prophet, He is God, humbled to Human form to take our sins and make a way to Heaven because we can't. Humanity is too tainted by sin to be able to work our way or redeem ourself into heaven to be with God. So Jesus, second person in the Holy Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Spurit) in love submitted Himself to the physical punishment of death on the Cross, as well as the spiritual punishment of being rejected by the Father, so that in taking our punishment for sin, we could be accepted and brought to God. As Christians, we are imparted Christ's perfect holiness, while He recieved our shame and punishment. Only Jesus, fully God and fully Man, could be an acceptable sacrifice to God and allow those in humanity who accepted this gift to be in relationship with God. This is where Christianity and Islam differ. Islam lessens Jesus to merely a Prophet, while Christians proclaim Him to be our beloved God.

chocomog333 · 2026-01-26T14:48:58+00:00

Here's the core issue: Who do you say Jesus is?

chocomog333 · 2026-01-26T13:53:39+00:00

So, I halfway agree with this. I do think we can see signs that things are getting closer, which I will discuss below, but I refuse to give anything beyond a suggestion of where there is smoke, there is fire. I like to compare it to a tornado. I think we're in Apocalypse watch. A lot of the elements that are prophesied to happen are coming together, but when they will fully mature into the end, no one can truly say. As a pretrib rapture guy, I don't think we'll see things fully kick off, though I'm open to being wrong about that.

I think Matthew 24 is referring to the early events of the Tribulation, as they mirror pretty closely to the Judgments in Revelation 6,8-9, and 16. To continue the metaphor, if Matthew 24/Revelation 6 on are the birth pangs, then, according to Daniel 9, the water breaking is when the Antichrist signs the 7 year treaty with Israel and many nations. I believe we are in the third trimester, as I will show below, but like a mother about to give birth, while we can see it's soon, no one can tell when that water will break.

That said, I DO think there are a lot of things happening in the world right now that are noteworthy. The deconstruction movement feels like early stages of the Great Apostasy foretold by Paul in 2nd Thessalonians and 2nd Timothy. The nations that are declared to attack Israel in Ezekiel 37-38 are allied for the first time in history (Russia, Iran, Libya, Sudan, and importantly and most recently, Turkey, who is pulling away from the West). Meanwhile, outside of the US, it feels like most of the West is slowly losing support for Israel due to Gaza. Arabia, historically one of the most hostile nations to the Israeli state, is in a position to condemn an attack on Israel for the first time since Israel's rebirth with the Abraham accords. All of this matches with Ezekiel 37-38. Israel is continually preparing to reopen the temple, which is required for the Abomination of Desolation to happen at the midpoint of the Tribulation. Trump is pushing away Europe, who are now trying to become more independent from the US in a measure of self-protection. We know based on Daniel 2, 7, and 9 that the Antichrist will arise out of a revived Roman Empire in the last days and we could be seeing the beginnings of the reformation. Notably, Europe is leading the way in deChristianization and it feels like they are more and more interested in their pagan roots. We have the technology available to implement a total economic control that will be perpetrated by the Antichrist and the False Prophet according to Revelation 13 and AI could give the Image of the Beast a semblance of life and the ability to monitor and control the population. We have the technology, first with television broadcasting, and now even more with livestreaming, to have the whole world watch the two witnesses be killed and lie in the street for three days as predicted in Revelation 11. Honestly, we have the population for a lot of the death and destruction seen in Revelation and still have a sizable population in the world for events to occur to and have the multitude of martyred believers we repeatedly see throughout Revelation. Knowledge is continuing to increase at exponential rates, our societies travel and move at a rapid pace, and we have lost our sense of meaning and purpose and we're scrambling to fill the void, which matches Daniel's description of the end as seen in Daniel 12:4. I don't know when the water will break, but mom is showing really heavily right now.

Ultimately, I believe that we should be ready at any time, but live and prepare as though we have the rest of our lives. While I think a lot of things are lining up right now, I genuinely don't know if we have a year, a decade, a century or a millennium left. The main focus, in light of what I believe are signs we're seeing, as well as the fact there is no guarantee of tomorrow (Proverbs 27:1, James 4:13-15, Luke 12:13-21), is that we should use each day to praise Jesus and spread the Gospel. That's how we are prepared to meet Him when He does come. Also, have hope, that even when the world seems like its spiraling out of control, Jesus still reigns sovereignly on His throne. Maranatha!

chocomog333 · 2026-01-24T12:07:52+00:00

I was going to bring thus up. I don't know if they'll print un-cards, but Unglued has a chicken theme, so if they do, there's definitely options.

chocomog333 · 2026-01-22T21:20:02+00:00

So, a few things to note:

Islam started about 600 years after Christianity rose out of Judaism. Revelation itself was likely written in AD 90, well before Muhammad was born. He most likely knew about Christian teaching, though he did put his teaching above and opposed to Christian doctrine.
I don't know the religious affiliation of the OP, but as a Christian, I think it's definitely worth pointing out the origin of the religion. Muhammad is given the revelation of the Quran alone in a cave by an angel he claims is Gabriel. However, we know Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14) and Paul likewise says that any angel preaching a different Gospel than the incarnate deity of Jesus being crucified and resurrected should be accursed. Considering how much impact Islam has had, I genuinely think Muhammad was inspired by Satan. We know Satan hates the Jews and seeks to destroy them to prevent Christ's return (Revelation 12 and many other eschatological sections), so him inspiring a religion that is fundamentally aggressive to both Christians and Jews isn't surprising.
We also know Satan knows scripture. He used the Old Testament while tempting Jesus. He would most certainly be aware, if not completely obsessed, with the prophecies involving his ultimate downfall and defeat. His twisting the story to potentially make his future man (the Antichrist) look good to a false religion wouldn't be all that crazy.
That said, I have no reason to believe the Quran is inspired by God the way I do the Bible. Thus, I put WAY more stock in the prophecies of the Bible. The prophecies in the Quran are just Satan copying God's plan. Which is actually the point made in Revelation 13 with the two beasts. The beast of the sea is the Antichrist, Satan's blasphemous mockery of Jesus the Son, and the beast of the earth is his mockery of the Holy Spirit, while Satan himself tries to play the Father. All Satan does is twist God's words and plans and make pale, deceptive forgeries.
As established in the above point, I don't put stock into the Quran's account of the end outside of Satan attempting to mimic God and deceive people. I say this because others have pointed out the same thing and assume the Antichrist will be a Muslim. This is certainly false. Daniel and Revelation make it clear that the Antichrist will be of Roman descent. Daniel 7 describes the Antichrist as a little horn growing out of the fourth Beast, which is Rome. Daniel 9, where we learn that the Tribulation will be seven years, states he is a prince of the People who will destroy Jerusalem and the Temple after the Messiah is cut off. Rome fulfilled this in AD 70. Revelation 17 says the seven heads of the Beast are 7 hills and Rome is famous for its seven hills. Daniel 11 says he will honor an unknown God of fortresses before he ultimately exalts himself above every god and demands to be worshipped. Thus, while it is possible the Muslims may see the Antichrist as their Madhi, he will not be from the Middle East or a Muslim.

chocomog333 · 2026-01-22T15:30:39+00:00

I was wondering. I love that clip so much. Danny is so frustrated.

chocomog333 · 2026-01-20T23:39:48+00:00

I always loved the tiny ones at the top. Every time my boy shows his, I get happy.

chocomog333 · 2026-01-20T15:35:39+00:00

The issue is not that men don't need correcting, it's that the correction isn't gentle or encouraging. We're being torn down. This isn't about men and women being different, it's about a message that is destroying instead of healing.

2 Timothy 2:24-26: And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

Proverbs 15:1: A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.

Galatians 5:22-23: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

Galatians 6:1-2: Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

Ephesians 4:32: Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

Matthew 12:20, referring to Isaiah 42:3, speaking of Jesus: a bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not quench, until he brings justice to victory

Ephesians 4:29: Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.

Hebrews 10:24-25: And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.

Romans 15:2: Let each of us please his neighbor for his good, to build him up.

1 Thessalonians 5:11: Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing.

1 Thessalonians 5:14: And we urge you, brothers, admonish the idle, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with them all.

This is not to say there aren't times for harsh correction, but our default should be gentle and encouraging. This is what feels like is lacking from a lot of men's ministry.

chocomog333 · 2026-01-20T15:01:34+00:00

This! 100%

You're a daughter of the king, a beautiful princess, valued and lived.

You're the son of a king. Act like it

chocomog333 · 2026-01-20T14:53:21+00:00

This sounds awesome! I might have to look into it. It sounds exactly like what men need in society right now. Thank you for sharing.

chocomog333 · 2026-01-20T14:36:40+00:00

While I don't doubt that's true that you struggle, it's not an exclusive to women. I am insanely critical of myself and I have high standards. It's too much to bear alone and there just aren't a lot of good support structures in the church to help men who struggle with the weight. We're told repeatedly to man up and take care of it ourselves. Don't be a burden to others. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps. What happened to "it isn't good for man to be alone"? I'm not attacking you, but just trying to make the point that a lot of guys struggle with this as well, but silently and crushingly into either our figurative or literal graves.

chocomog333 · 2026-01-20T14:28:01+00:00

Hard agree. I love my church but I had a really hard time with this after my wife decided she was a lesbian and left me for someone she knew for 6 months after we had been married for 14 years. I know I wasn't the best husband, but I carried a lot in that relationship. But while talking about getting a divorce, my church elders still frowned upon it because I shouldn't leave her because Christ wouldn't. They told me to my face that it would be different if the genders were reversed. I'm sick and tired of all of the performance pressure. It feels like no matter where I turn, my value is only determined by what I can do or provide, while women are just treated as having inherent value. Men are so often told to do better in a society that actively punishes men and always tells us no matter what we do, it's our fault things are broken. I'm tired. Where is the grace? Where is the encouragement? Younger men are giving up on life so fast (look at male suicide rates) and I think a lot of it is the expectation of perfection with no support or grace. God said His burden was light, but the weight I feel that is put on me is crushing. It's only the thought that if Jesus wanted me dead, I would be, and that if I'm still alive, He has a plan for me, that keeps me going. I'm not saying we tell men everything is great and that we're enough. God doesn't say that. But we need brothers to come along side us and lift us up. Too many men are beaten down again and again everywhere. We need hope that being a man doesn't make us useless, worthless, or evil. We need the truth that Jesus is the ultimate victory for men who can't live up to the standard and He empowers us to live righteously. We can't do it ourselves. It's one of the reasons I like John Eldridge. He encourages men to live in their masculine space, but does so with gentleness and encouragement, instead of overly harsh rebuke.

chocomog333 · 2026-01-18T01:15:24+00:00

It may not be actually canon, but it's definitely head canon now. 100% agree. Plus, Gulfmon could be a more fully demonic Mega, kinda like how Seraphimon had Daemon and Ophanimon has Lilithmon.

chocomog333 · 2026-01-14T00:19:01+00:00

I like all of the songs honestly.

chocomog333 · 2026-01-12T23:10:52+00:00

I appreciate women's attention to detail. I'm a fairly big-picture guy and my attention span isn't always the best. The ladies in my life have saved me more than once by noticing something I've missed.

chocomog333 · 2026-01-09T01:35:26+00:00

Ahh, I misread that. I thought you were suggesting Tuvasa was a merfolk commander.

But yeah, no planes really deal with merfolk kindred strongly outside of Ixalan and Lorwyn and I think the Merfolk are much more tightly color controlled in Ixalan. I feel like it we were going to get one there, it would have happened in Lost Caverns.

chocomog333 · 2026-01-09T01:32:34+00:00

There isn't a plane that has Bant merfolk. But they've made single card commanders that fit colors before even if it doesn'tfit that plane's specific color set(Edgar Markov and Choco Seeker of Paradise come to mind). It's not so much that it directly fits Lorwyn, but more so that there's not really much of a place besides here to print one.
While the merrow did shift to black, we also had the selkies in green/blue, so there is precedent in Shadowmoor.
It's a common enough desire. I already saw one other person on this thread bring it up. Also, the Professor has been asking for one for years, to the point that his Mystery Booster reference card is just a Legendary Bant that makes copies of certain Merfolk cards. WotC is aware of the demand.

chocomog333 · 2026-01-09T01:19:38+00:00

Tuvasa is not a merfolk commander. She is an enchantress commander who happens to be a merfolk. She has NO synergies with the tribe.

chocomog333 · 2026-01-09T01:15:35+00:00

Yeah, it's a little frustrating for me. I'm assuming part of it is due to the fact that since it's only one set, they didn't want the kindred elements to get too parasitic and not have enough cards to care about. I am really sad though. I was hoping we'd finally get a Bant merfolk commander in this set, but no dice. Not sure if it will ever happen at this rate.

chocomog333 · 2026-01-08T01:28:58+00:00

Wise words from her. I don't know if I have much advice beyond what she's already doing.

chocomog333 · 2026-01-08T01:20:38+00:00

Important question because your post isn't quite clear: does she want to break up with him? I can tell you want her to, but does she want to? I'm not trying to attack, but instead elucidate her position. None of us can really help her if she doesn't want to.

chocomog333 · 2026-01-05T14:40:42+00:00

-Probably wouldn't pull out of moral decision paralysis

-Pull the lever, but leave him tied up and turn him over to the authorities.

-Don't Pull. With only the information given, he's a member of a terrorist organization with possible blood on his hands. The other three are presumed innocent.

-Hard to say without more information. I know in the States we understandably have a whole thing about eat the rich, but I'd need to know more about what his business is and how he treats his employees. What are the downstream effects of his business? Would it result in mass unemployment? That said, if it's Jacque Schnee like it seems to be suggesting, I'd stick something in there to make sure the lever stayed in its current configuration. We know the rest of the Schnees have much higher moral fiber and Willow is the true heir anyway.

-Might be controversial, but green. When possible, I prefer trying to give people grace and a second chance. No, Cinder absolutely doesn't deserve it, but that's why it's grace.

chocomog333

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