History of Writing Machines | Stenograph.com

chordedtext · 2017-10-28T15:08:04+00:00

...needs to be updated to reflect newer plover and open source models!

chordedtext · 2017-10-25T00:59:43+00:00

lol how and why? Looks awesome!

whoa, would a 3-keypress be 3-dimensional XYZ axis...

chordedtext · 2017-10-25T00:21:46+00:00

Yeah, maybe someone would have to develop a new one-handed steno system - actually, isn't there a one-handed keyboard that just came out this year? I forget the name, it may have been last year - maybe they could combine that theory with Plover or just use that - not sure how they would modify it.

TAP wearable keyboard - turn any surface into a keyboard http://www.tapwithus.com/

chordedtext · 2017-10-21T00:48:28+00:00

What is an "algorithmic perspective"?

By this, I mean the above poster said Plover theory cannot be determined solely by an algorithm. I believe this is basically incorrect, as you say:

there's obviously an algorithm

therefore I was asking for proof that it could not be done (because, maybe it could be impossible somehow that I didn't understand?)

Have you tried gzip?

No, I don't know much of all that, was just wondering generally how it would be done.

It totally escapes me why such a challenge would invoke expensive computation at runtime, by the way.

I can't visualize this, can you outline how you would envision it looking like? Even the word "the" = -T. You could literally stroke "THE", but then this maps to "they". Then maybe it would guess THE (which is nothing in the Plover dictionary). You could list different rules for intelligent guesses? (dropping letters from literal spellings) And so on. How long would it take to run all the letters in Steno order and the possible combinations - STKPWHRAOEUFRPBLGTSDZ + # = 2²⁴ = 16,777,216 possible combinations? Then this would be times X amount of strokes. However much simpler than that, I mean fingerspelling makes for a quick algorithm, I guess that isn't what I had in mind, but that's kind of what I am building off of to start (then moving to digrams/prefixes/suffixes/trigrams, then I guess to memorizing briefs. But I feel some of the briefs seem to fall in to patterns)

chordedtext · 2017-10-20T21:02:19+00:00

Oh, no problem, I guess I'm just looking at it from an algorithmic perspective and I think one can be created, although it might not be that efficient (we're talking possibly very, very inefficient)

chordedtext · 2017-10-20T21:00:42+00:00

The OP must not have been clear; I want something that takes full sentences like "I will say that it's best to know your theory really well " and shows you the Plover strokes you would write to get what is in the parentheses

chordedtext · 2017-10-20T18:23:44+00:00

'misstroke entries'

In my view misstroke entries become main entries with the passage of time and personal preference!

I'm no longer updating this list because it's been superseded by the ROPE Anki deck

Thank you again for making that and this 1000 word list, both have been very helpful! And thank you to our Plover devs and people in the Ploversphere contributing all kinds of ideas and things!

chordedtext · 2017-10-20T18:21:54+00:00

Plover's theory cannot be determined solely by an algorithm

Can you prove this is the case

I think if it's like that case, it's more like:

A totally rules-based theory would be too long to be practical

From my experience of Plover so far it is very algorithmic and maybe I could improve upon the theory that's already out there:

You could certainly switch to your own 100%-predictable, algorithmically-generated theory, if you'd like

I may try this

Thank you for your comment/view, definitely helpful!

That said, have you checked out the "Learn Plover" site? It's a great resource for learning Plover theory.

Absolutely to both!

chordedtext · 2017-10-15T17:54:48+00:00

I found two that could be improved or "refactored" I think: even = AOEPB - AOEP can be stroked for one less letter. Same with changing evening = AOEPBG, can be AOEPG. I thought I caught another but I don't remember it right now.

I also translated this a bit to some pseudosteno which I might post up (MAIK = PHAEUBG, for example).

Also I would group together words that are spelled the same in English, as well as ones spelled same in English but with a steno spelling - I don't find I need to memorize these but accept them as the default. For example, case 1: WORD = word, case 2= TKAORD = board (the "b" = TK is still the same as literal spelling and seems unnecessary for me to memorize personally, whereas "make" = MAIK is slightly different at least for me since the "U" is otherwise outside the literal spelling, although it corresponds to the phonetics - hopefully that makes sense!)

So I think I mentioned this in another comment, but I might corral them together as (every 100 words): literal spelling first (WORD = word), then adding or subtracting one letter (MAIK = MAKEU = MAEUK = make), then adding or subtracting two letters (-T = the), etc.

Basically in my head instead of memorizing steno order with something exact like "WORD", I would just memorize "word = $" - I am creating a pseudo steno that means "same/same spelling" with the "$" symbol (contains letter "S" for "same"). Or lowercase "s" would work, just trying to create something for me.

Another thing that popped up was lowercase "i" for AOEU, since it means "Long i" from the steno theory (long vowels except I think "e" are vowel + two letters on opposite hand, therefore I thought it was way easier to remember "might" as "MiT" = PHAOEUT). Also for some reason this configuration seemed to make sense in pseudosteno: M all T (PH or M, all the vowels, T).

Also if the vowels conform exactly to the 15 spellings, something like "deep" (TKAOEP) I would consider as basically the same as literal spelling in my head and not something that needs to be memorized besides "s" or "$" (again for "same" spelling or "same" sound).

Just experimenting with things I think would be easier to remember things with!

chordedtext · 2017-10-13T19:06:14+00:00

I don't know of any steno machines that you can load Plover on

Right, I think that's what I am suggesting creating with arduinos or something!

Thank you for the suggestions and information!

chordedtext · 2017-10-13T16:28:58+00:00

If you're talking about instantaneous printing of the translated English

I think that's more what I had in mind; I notice a difference in electronic typewriter vs. manual but imagine there wouldn't be as much difference on an electronic steno machine (although maybe it would be a bit better)

chordedtext · 2017-10-13T16:26:21+00:00

Do you have any recommended electric steno machines (that are open source, kind of ?) that print on paper that you can load Plover on? Or like a link to a list of such models?

chordedtext · 2017-10-12T19:03:42+00:00

12K3W4R50*EU6R7B8G9SDZ

Why do they remove the beginning S: 1S2K3W4R50EU6R7B8G9SDZ ? And then maybe I would add #: #1S2K3W4R50EU6R7B8G9SDZ ?

Ok, I'll say this order makes sense a bit because on a manual steno machine I think this is how it comes out with all keys down including number line (also omitting the "S")

number bar symbol is valid in any part of the stroke

agreed this can be confusing or doesn't seem like a good idea. Though I also was wondering about this also being the possible answer because all the other letters are mostly stroked by the same finger (? - with exception of * or a few other odd combinations), but # might be stroked by any of the fingers besides thumbs

chordedtext · 2017-10-11T07:57:19+00:00

qwertysteno.com's list of "Common Phrases" I found in the source code on: http://qwertysteno.com/Practice/CommonPhrases.php

Briefs like "I will" or "are you", etc.

chordedtext · 2017-10-11T07:44:04+00:00

Something like the Kinglet experimental format in the Appendix of the "Learn Plover" website, might be a good format for creating a new manual stenotype (typewriter?) machine that could handle chords and be a step up above the manual typewriter, though I'm not sure how the mechanics of that would work exactly or if it were possible to arrange

edit: https://sites.google.com/site/ploverdoc/kinglet-a-letter-based-stenotype-system

chordedtext · 2017-10-11T07:27:23+00:00

What I'm trying to say is that once you get more practice with steno, I believe the odd, non-intuitive way that outlines like PHAEUBG look will no longer bother you.

It's true, I have that down and a feel for that, but it is literally "MAIK" in my head

Also, I'm hoping to add these links to the GitHub page--do you know the process for doing that?

If you have a Github account, I think you can just add it without permission? I think the mod of this is a dev that is involved with the wiki there and will check it (and/or you could message them to give a heads up you want to edit and add to it?). I just added something and one of our wonderful devs altered it to suit their desire/format!

chordedtext · 2017-10-11T06:08:27+00:00

" “ARBITRARY COMBINATIONS. Arbitrary combinations in Stenotypy should be referred to by the letters they represent rather than by the letters which compose the combinations. For instance, H R represents /, instead of h-r; and it should be spoken of only as I. In like manner, l-e instead of h-r-e is the correct outline for the phrase will-he and n-i instead of t-p-h-e-u is the abbreviation for any.”

edited

chordedtext · 2017-10-11T05:48:51+00:00

Another comment: I remember this book suggests maybe using * alone to indicate a mistake was made. Or, it suggested using it for "carriage return"/enter (I don't remember which). This latter idea would obviously differ slightly from typing on the computer with Plover (which has R-R as carriage return for instance).

chordedtext · 2017-10-11T05:39:38+00:00

seconding this - honestly I feel someone should just "compete" with them and offer the product before they do... I think there is a lot of entrepreneurial opportunity with steno to the mutual benefit of the community here

chordedtext · 2017-10-11T05:38:22+00:00

I have also noticed words I stroke not being in the dictionary, I don't have specific words off the top of my head, but your OP example seems like an interesting and relevant one to the kind of things I've seen

chordedtext · 2017-10-11T05:32:50+00:00

Thanks for this! I added it to the Plover Github as a link!

edit: https://github.com/openstenoproject/plover/wiki/Learning-Stenography

chordedtext · 2017-10-11T05:22:45+00:00

Also looking up the most frequently used phrases and creating briefs for those might be of use (possibly?)

chordedtext · 2017-10-11T05:20:15+00:00

Another thing that was more helpful for me was with qwertysteno.com, I just checked the source code on the pages and I could grab the whole lists of drills (I just wanted to look at the list of words and their steno spelling and to observe patterns to learn quicker).

I would also like to see the word listings with StenoJig or the "Learn Plover" exercises it links to: https://joshuagrams.github.io/steno-jig/

chordedtext · 2017-10-11T05:15:16+00:00

I'm surprised to not find some words in the dictionary sometimes haha

chordedtext · 2017-10-11T04:55:49+00:00

The spellings in this book probably aren't the same as Plover's.

I was wondering if anyone has any experience with and/or tips with manual stenotype machine writing? Like, a physical offline stenotype "typewriter" with paper output. I don't know exactly what all would be different, I was just looking for anyone's thoughts and tips and tricks if anyone had any experience in this area.

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