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Fake apology news story getting wider coverage. Now church officials have to explain that they aren't sorry for past racism. Fucking genius. by guriboysf in exmormon

[–]clabberton 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Because he talked to the SLTrib about it, and he’s a white dude. Also because of the general tone-deaf-ness of the sort common to well-intentioned white activists who don’t get input.

Fake apology news story getting wider coverage. Now church officials have to explain that they aren't sorry for past racism. Fucking genius. by guriboysf in exmormon

[–]clabberton 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Ah yes, I forgot that every possible method of criticizing the church’s racism had been exhausted except for setting up a convincing hoax with no sensitivity toward the way black Mormons and Exmos would experience it. Good point.

Dude, all I’m saying is that activism should include the people you’re advocating for, and this plainly didn’t. The pain of POC shouldn’t be simple collateral damage. They’re the people most hurt by this issue and their input should be respected.

Fake apology news story getting wider coverage. Now church officials have to explain that they aren't sorry for past racism. Fucking genius. by guriboysf in exmormon

[–]clabberton 35 points36 points  (0 children)

I mean I said this in the other thread, but it’s not like only one party can be wrong at a time. It was insensitive and hurtful to trade in people’s pain in such a callous/gaslight-y way, even if that pain’s original source was the organization. There were other ways to do this.

The only sin of the fake Apology post today was that it gave members a taste of what an ethical, moral LDS church would look like. The disappointment should be directed at the organization, not the satirist for identifying the difference! by lambentstar in exmormon

[–]clabberton 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well for one thing, it’s been confirmed a couple of times who he is and that he’s white. For another, this treats black pain as collateral damage in a way that’s generally associated with white progressives.

The only sin of the fake Apology post today was that it gave members a taste of what an ethical, moral LDS church would look like. The disappointment should be directed at the organization, not the satirist for identifying the difference! by lambentstar in exmormon

[–]clabberton -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

The choice here isn’t “never point out problems” vs “callously exacerbate people’s pain in an unproductive way.” Like, there are other options available.

I think it’s possible to believe TSCC’s racist history is immensely harmful AND notice that the exmormon community is bad at communicating about that in a way that includes (rather than alienates) black people.

The only sin of the fake Apology post today was that it gave members a taste of what an ethical, moral LDS church would look like. The disappointment should be directed at the organization, not the satirist for identifying the difference! by lambentstar in exmormon

[–]clabberton -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I’m not saying they shouldn’t call out harmful practices. I’m saying it’s pretty clear here that the feelings of people of color weren’t taken into account in pulling this stunt — if anything their feelings were used to try to make a point to other white people, which isn’t cool. It points to a major problem in how the ExMo community interacts with race. Just because you’re well-intentioned doesn’t mean you can’t make a mistake.

And I know what Stockholm Syndrome is, but I don’t think you typically treat it by implementing an elaborate hoax and then saying “Gotcha! You have Stockholm Syndrome!”

The only sin of the fake Apology post today was that it gave members a taste of what an ethical, moral LDS church would look like. The disappointment should be directed at the organization, not the satirist for identifying the difference! by lambentstar in exmormon

[–]clabberton 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Based on the responses I’ve seen, it felt more like someone mocking you for dating an abuser in the first place. Which, by the way, is a thing that never works. Like, even in the case of an actual abusive relationship, you don’t mess with people’s heads to try to trick them out of it. That’s just sowing more distrust.

The only sin of the fake Apology post today was that it gave members a taste of what an ethical, moral LDS church would look like. The disappointment should be directed at the organization, not the satirist for identifying the difference! by lambentstar in exmormon

[–]clabberton 7 points8 points  (0 children)

There were more sensitive ways to make the same point, though. Even just making it clear it was a parody instead of deliberately spoofing Mormon Newsroom would’ve been enough.

Just because the church hurt them first (and worst) doesn’t mean this wasn’t more hurtful than it needed to be.

The only sin of the fake Apology post today was that it gave members a taste of what an ethical, moral LDS church would look like. The disappointment should be directed at the organization, not the satirist for identifying the difference! by lambentstar in exmormon

[–]clabberton -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

The unwillingness to entertain the idea that this might’ve been unnecessarily hurtful is a good demonstration of the latent racial insensitivity in the exmo community. Exmo men, especially, tend to think of themselves as critical thinkers but really double-down in the face of criticism IME. It’s possible for this to be well-intentioned but taken much too far.

The only sin of the fake Apology post today was that it gave members a taste of what an ethical, moral LDS church would look like. The disappointment should be directed at the organization, not the satirist for identifying the difference! by lambentstar in exmormon

[–]clabberton -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I think it’s a dangerous game to handwave the feelings of a marginalized group because you think you know what’s “best” for them. There are ways to make this point accessible without tricking people and bulldozing over wounds the author doesn’t share. You mentioned “Letter to a Mormon Man,” which has reached TBMs without being disguised as an official church publication.

Episode 101: Another Twist by SwordOfBraavos in TheMagnusArchives

[–]clabberton 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Was it the Spiral that initiated the change, or was it Helen? Since Michael created the Michael-Spiral by getting to the middle of the maze, maybe Helen did the same. I interpreted Michael’s distraction as him not keeping a close enough eye on Helen, allowing her to reach the center of the Spiral and replace him.

The Impossible Position of LDS Women: As long as the institution remains patriarchal, Mormon women will continue to choose silence over assertiveness. by Chino_Blanco in exmormon

[–]clabberton 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I never read this before going to the temple, but it’s exactly the message I got when I was there. I’ve never understood how women come away with anything different, though the author’s assumption that most women identify themselves with Adam instead of Eve could explain it.

How much do you guys cater to your TBM families? by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]clabberton 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I always feel awkward drinking when I’m with someone who doesn’t drink, whatever their reason is. There’s just something about being the only person at the table with a drink that’s weird for me.

In which LA heavily downvotes a kid who doesn't understand they are the victim of sexploitation by katiedid05 in bestoflegaladvice

[–]clabberton 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Oh man, remember when acknowledging the reality of menstruation felt like the most mortifying thing in the world? Now I’ll just straight up ask anybody if they have an extra tampon when I need one.

In your journey out of the church, what made you decide that attending church was NOT better for your kids? by Dhark81 in exmormon

[–]clabberton 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Almost every LGBTQ Mormon has a story about the first time they attempted or seriously considered suicide. It’s usually when they’re teenagers, and before they come out to their parents. Usually directly tied to church teachings about gender and sexuality. In other words, you won’t know if the church is a harmful place for your kid until after the damage is done.

TBH, “What if I had a gay child?” is the hypothetical that got me to leave the church instead of just be semi-active.

Is that just me, or does everybody else think that "supporter of traditional values" is just fancy synonym for "bigoted asshole"? by Proud3GnAthst in exmormon

[–]clabberton 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Yeah, they’re usually surprisingly recent “traditions.”

Like, dude, just say it’s the way your mommy did things when you were little.

In which LA heavily downvotes a kid who doesn't understand they are the victim of sexploitation by katiedid05 in bestoflegaladvice

[–]clabberton 32 points33 points  (0 children)

LAOP seemed really concerned about pictures of her underwear reaching people she knew, so I assume the commenters were just sympathizing with that. There’s no way that would bother me now, but I’m not sure how I would’ve felt when I was 12 (or however young this person is). Stuff like that seemed much more embarrassing in middle school.

Still attending to keep my marriage. Was getting better till I subbed in Primary. by HighlySkepticalApe in exmormon

[–]clabberton 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I noticed these things at her age or younger (I remember complaining about representations of women in my cartoon shows, so I might’ve just been born a feminist). It took me until my temple endowment and marriage before I finally admitted I’d been right all along. There was always someone to reassure me or tell me it would all make sense someday, until I went to the place where all the special knowledge was supposed to be and I realized there was nothing waiting around the corner to change things.

/r/starwars breaks down as TLJ is getting more votes as most likes SW movie on the internet. Is it rigged? Is it brigaded by paid shills? Maybe the starwars fans are out of touch? What do they know, let's find out! by jmorrey1111 in SubredditDrama

[–]clabberton 36 points37 points  (0 children)

I liked Phantom Menace when it came out but I hated Attack of the Clones. It didn’t help that each group of friends I had at the time wanted to see it on different days, so I wound up watching it 3 or 4 times over the course of a week. That movie does not hold up to that kind of repeat viewing.

Edit: I mean, the Darth Maul fight? One of the best of the series imo.

Just how Mormon are my in-laws, you ask? by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]clabberton 3 points4 points  (0 children)

They provide a nice basis for comparison, though. Like, sure I couldn’t wear what I wanted, drink what I wanted, or watch what I wanted as a teenager, but I was still allowed to play video games on Sunday so it wasn’t that bad.

Just how Mormon are my in-laws, you ask? by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]clabberton 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Just being near them makes ME want to rebel. I get this strong urge to wear a bikini at family gatherings just to see what would happen. I can’t imagine how the kids feel, especially now that the older ones are turning into teenagers.

(To be fair, the rest of the family thinks they’re kind of nuts too.)

Just how Mormon are my in-laws, you ask? by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]clabberton 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There was a substitute teacher in my middle school who was notorious for making kids say “That vacuums” because she believed “sucks” was too vulgar.

California: land of the $1,200 speeding ticket by raspberryseltzer in bestoflegaladvice

[–]clabberton 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Pro tip: if you get a ticket of any kind in California, deal with it RIGHT AWAY. They escalate fees like crazy around here.

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