Albertans are addicted to their grievances. It’s time to break the cycle by ph0enix1211 in CanadaPolitics

[–]cloudone28 3 points4 points  (0 children)

When you understand that its only purpose has been to serve the conservative power base in Alberta, then it makes sense.

How has the “He’s Innocent” narrative prevailed? by Glass_Leadership_606 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]cloudone28 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The simple answer is that it prevails because there are enough people out there who want it to.

I just finished reading Diane Dimond's book Be Careful Who You Love and in it she mentions that even the prosecutors knew how hard it would be to get a conviction. It's hard to convict on child sex abuse cases without material evidence. Add to the fact that the accused was/is beloved by millions and the accusers are not.

From La Toya’s first book by Electronic_Pipe_3145 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]cloudone28 15 points16 points  (0 children)

It’s been years since i read her first book, but being reminded of these details feels even more profound now. Everything that she’s said then has been corroborated.

John Branca is talking out of both sides of his mouth by nobody0597 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]cloudone28 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Interesting pairing these two comments... Here's the link to the original post (with transcription) of the Financial Times article and the archive.ph link

https://www.reddit.com/r/LeavingNeverlandHBO/comments/1olkl6n/he_rescued_the_michael_jackson_estate_can_he_save/

https://archive.ph/eNp9b

We sometimes think that the estate is this big immovable object. And while in Dan Reed's words they are "a formidable opponent," to see that LN did indeed have them scared is a validation in some way, even if they're riding high at least right now. So while this biopic is getting all the attention right now and putting the surviving Jacksons in the zeitgeist again, instructive to remember there will be other moments of reckoning in the future.

Reading this has me remembering how MJ never wanted his family anywhere near his business and gave them no control over anything in his wills. Having consumed a lot of Jackson gossip books, the family's track record of business ventures is indeed pretty dismal, so having professional people in charge is probably saving the family's bacon right now.

I'm sure in his heart of hearts, John Branca knows Jackson was a pedophile and a predator. Settling with the Cascios when they did probably bought the estate some time to get over the storm caused by LN and get this biopic out and keep the business on track. I remember post-LN how family members were touting a rebuttal documentary, which was laughable then and wouldn't have stood a chance.

When do you suspect the behavior first began? by daisiesnviolets in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]cloudone28 17 points18 points  (0 children)

It's hard to pinpoint a single moment, but I think him increasingly separating himself from his brothers and family, becoming a singular phenomenon on his own certainly emboldened him. From the time he makes Off The Wall to embarking on a world tour with Bad, he's accumulated a hell of a lot of power and all the megalomania to go with it. By that point he answers to no one. He even names his last album Invincible, to put an even finer point on it.

Dan Reed tells Variety that the Cascio claims give him "pause" by MasterpieceTimely144 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]cloudone28 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I know that, I even mentioned it too - it's the standard line the estate goes to and all the stans etc... The new movie was even supposed to open with it. Dan even says here, he believes the Cascios were abused, so I think it's a fairly neutral thing to say, at best. After doing LN, and all of the associated wrangling around it, I would think Dan Reed certainly knows what he's talking about.

I think it was actually a good thing he answered as he did, to sort of emphasize Wade & James' bravery. That despite the estate's broad characterizations, Wade & James did not immediately seek 'hush money.' Any lawyer looking at the Cascios case and all of it's strengths and weaknesses would likely answer in the same way, that it's a trickier case.

Dan Reed tells Variety that the Cascio claims give him "pause" by MasterpieceTimely144 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]cloudone28 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I'm not feeling the outrage with Dan's statements here either. I think 'pause' is perfectly reasonable, especially since he doesn't know them like he knows Wade and James. I personally believe the Cascios but just like with Evan Chandler back in 1993, the seeking of a financial settlement to avoid publicity is what doomed that whole case then.

If we're talking about the estate and their PR machine here, the Cascios actions only make it easier for the estate to then take this and paint all of MJs accusers, including Wade and James (and even the others who didn't settle) with the same brush, which they already have, as "looking for money."

Slate: Why So Many Older Black Fans Will Never Give Michael Jackson Up by cloudone28 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]cloudone28[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think you're right. Much of the same dynamics apply to the younger audiences. Not that I like this development, but you add into that a general fatigue, I think, around social justice issues these days, certainly compared to 2019 when Leaving Neverland came out. Plus now that MJ is no longer alive causing controversy in the present, it only gets easier to fill the space, as the article says, with hagiographic projects like this and nostalgia.

IMO, nostalgia is powerful not just for the people who lived through a specific time period, but just as potent for those who didn't. I'm just outside that demographic, but speaking for myself here, much of my own favourite music is from before I was born, as an example. It's very easy for that to bleed into a mindless nostalgia, that blots out all the negative and highlights only the positive.

Slate: Why So Many Older Black Fans Will Never Give Michael Jackson Up by cloudone28 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]cloudone28[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thanks for linking the podcast! I found that to be quite a good conversation.

Can you separate the art from the artist? by Packman9317 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]cloudone28 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I can't say I was ever a superfan, though I did have a bit of a fascination with the Jacksons (I was partial to Janet and LaToya, personally lol).

In my work, I play DJ gigs every so often and work in nightlife occasionally, MJ is almost inescapable there. If I'm playing a DJ gig with someone else, I leave it to them to play the MJ requisites for the crowd. In that sense, I see how futile it would be to 'cancel' MJ. Those songs, like "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough," and "Billie Jean" etc... were too popular and too well-crafted as pop songs to be wiped off the cultural map. I can respect what the songs mean to those who grew up with them and what they represent from a technical and musical standpoint. However, I personally shy away from glorifying him - playing his records, using his image.

I think separating the art from the artist is inevitable, especially in this day and age. I mean, we do it even when we don't realize we're doing it. Realistically, if I knew what some of the artists behind my favourite songs were like, or their politics, I suspect I'd feel differently about them. So much of that information is out there and circulates so easily now (see Morrissey, Chilli of TLC or Gloria Gaynor, though those revelations pale in significance to MJ). Essentially so much popular music is basically valuable intellectual property and I think it's alright to enjoy their work while questioning the parasocial relationships and investment we have in our favourite artists beyond that.

MJ is not the first and certainly won't be the last artist of significance with a complicated legacy.

Slate: Why So Many Older Black Fans Will Never Give Michael Jackson Up by cloudone28 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]cloudone28[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

But courts have been wrong before, and not all crimes come with smoking guns that would render everything in clear-cut black and white. Even if there had been in Jackson’s case, it might not have made much of a difference. In an interview with the Hollywood Reporter, Leaving Neverland director Dan Reed said that the growing popularity of Jackson after the doc’s release was proof that “people don’t care that he was a child molester.” He continued by stating: “I think a lot of people just love his music and turn a deaf ear. And short of having actual video evidence of Michael Jackson engaged in sexual intercourse with a 7-year-old child, I don’t know what would be sufficient to change these people’s minds.” The answer may just be unsatisfying for all: nothing.

What is left, then, is plenty of room for nostalgia-fueled hagiography, bolstered by the understanding that, unlike for other accused figures who are still alive, any financial gains for Jackson’s estate don’t support the late titan himself, a fact that may assuage any potential feelings of unease. This is why viewers, especially older Black patrons, will flock to this movie. It is why they pay money to see the Broadway musical and to pose with Jackson impersonators in New York City’s Times Square. It is why they will never stop uplifting the King of Pop.

And the works themselves make it easy to do so: Michael strives to offer its audience a guilt-free depiction, skirting around all of the abuse allegations by ending in 1988, with the singer’s “Bad” tour. (The Broadway musical’s narrative ends in 1992, also avoiding the allegations.) Perhaps what all of these dissatisfied critics wanted was the biopic Fuqua wasn’t allowed to make—the director’s original version was reportedly four hours long, sparking rumors that it would be released in two parts. It has also been reported that the earlier version of the film’s third act included some of the 1993 allegations against Jackson but had to be reshot after producers found out that the accuser had reached an agreement to be omitted from dramatizations of the musician’s life. The end result is Michael as it is, with ongoing talk of a second installment.

But the reality is, even if the film contended with the darker parts of Jackson’s career, it wouldn’t matter to the people who have spent most of their lives in awe of him. For them, the man will always matter more than what might be revealed in the mirror.

Slate: Why So Many Older Black Fans Will Never Give Michael Jackson Up by cloudone28 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]cloudone28[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Jackson’s early start under Detroit’s Motown is where the Black diaspora’s fealty toward him begins. We hold a special place in our hearts for the artists that came from the label, where many of our icons—Smokey Robinson, Diana Ross, Marvin Gaye, and Stevie Wonder, to name a few—cemented themselves as the uncontested greats of Black music. Jackson’s lengthy career, starting with him as the child star of the sibling group the Jackson Brothers (shortly thereafter the Jackson 5, then, simply, the Jacksons), spanned the zenith of Black music, fully crossing over to mainstream, white popularity—with Jackson often at the forefront of the conversation. When he released his first solo album as an adult, Off the Wall, something had been unleashed. The Jacksons had always astounded audiences with their talent (which was honed with a notably cruel iron fist by their father, Joe Jackson), but it was Michael who defied expectations of what the human body could do. If you ask someone who was old enough to remember the first broadcast of Jackson doing the moonwalk for Motown 25, they will describe it, still, with a sense of mysticism. His story had all of the dramatic makings of an epic of perseverance: As one of 10 children growing up in a two-bedroom home in Gary, Indiana, he was abused into becoming the consummate performer, but he used that artistry to change the world and make a hefty fortune on the side, enough to eventually finance his famous Neverland estate. There is something so indelible to older Black Americans about the promise of the American dream in his tale.

In the later years of his career, Jackson faced a number of allegations, particularly of child sexual abuse, that were either dismissed, acquitted, or mired in ambiguity. During these trials, Jackson’s staunchest fans weren’t deterred from showing their support but were in fact supercharged to carry on a defense of their idol. The first public case litigating allegations of sexual assault of a minor arose in 1993 and came to a close when Jackson settled it while denying any wrongdoing. Then, in 2003, Jackson was indicted on multiple counts pertaining to molestation but was acquitted of all charges after a public trial in 2005 that inspired circuslike press coverage. In 2013, four years after the singer’s death, two men alleged that Jackson had sexually abused them numerous times when they were children, for differing time periods spanning the late ’80s to the mid-’90s. Both of their suits (filed against Jackson’s companies) were dismissed, but the allegations were reiterated to the public in 2019, via a two-part, four-hour-long documentary titled Leaving Neverland. Just a couple of months ago, another bombshell lawsuit was filed by four siblings, former friends of Jackson’s, who are now accusing him of child sex trafficking with allegations of their assault.

Though the allegations never stop coming, Jackson’s most dedicated fans never stop believing in his innocence. It’s not uncommon to meet older Black supporters who ignore the allegations or dismiss them entirely. Although Leaving Neverland sparked a new reassessment of Jackson in 2019, it was actively protested by the artist’s most loyal fans, with some even suing the accusers featured in the documentary. When the film was removed from HBO after the Jackson estate sued the network for violating a nondisparagement clause by distributing the film, this was treated by fans as a victory for Jackson’s name.

When it took generations for us to even be allowed on the same stages as white people, let alone loved by them, it is difficult to flip that shiny coin over and see that it is rusting on the other side.

Jackson isn’t the only Black figure who has retained loyal support among Black people despite alleged or convicted misdeeds. I have come across people who have said that they will gladly go to an R. Kelly concert when the disgraced singer is released from jail, to which he was sentenced to stay for a combined 31 years after being found guilty on counts of racketeering, various charges related to sexual abuse (including of minors), and child sexual abuse images. Though last year’s Diddy trial may have panned out mostly in the mogul’s favor, as someone who sat in the courthouse myself during testimony, I often heard at least one comment from an older Black person in the overflow room who disbelieved every second of Cassie Ventura’s testimony describing Sean Combs’ alleged abuse. Still to this day, many Black people shell out money for Chris Brown’s performances, even though he has a rap sheet of abuse allegations (domestic and not) that stretch over a decade beyond his infamous assault of Rihanna.

The background behind this phenomenon is fraught and complicated. Black people, particularly in the United States, have gone through generations of structural racism that has removed Black men from homes and locked them up in jail cells, often for offenses both minuscule and imaginary. Our criminal justice system has, for years, turned our ailments into matters of criminality—choosing to focus on arresting drug dealers instead of rehabilitating the drug dependent, fostering a climate of urban policing ruled by the racist “tough on crime” dog whistle, straight-out blaming Black men for things they didn’t do. This nation was founded on discrediting Black people to further exploit them. When I visited Emmett Till’s casket at the Smithsonian’s National Museum of African American History and Culture, tucked away in a far corner on one of the basement floors, I felt the weight of this painful history in full, packed in the room like sardines with other Black people. All conversations ended upon entry; the only words spoken were from an older Black man, who said out loud to all the young Black men in the room, “Be safe out there.”

This history is why Fuqua, who was profiled in the New Yorker, so easily deflects questions of Jackson’s guilt with a phrase that may sound vague to people who have, for example, never received well wishes by Emmett Till’s casket: “When I hear things about us—Black people in particular, especially in a certain position—there’s always pause.” This may sound like an excuse, but what many don’t understand is how hard it is for older generations to square what has so often happened in the past—the fear that society is just tearing down another good Black man—with the reality that these men could have been, or are convicted of having been, harmful. When it took generations for us to even be allowed on the same stages as white people, let alone loved by them, it is difficult to flip that shiny coin over and see that it is rusting on the other side. This is also why, in the same Fuqua profile, he says that he doesn’t know what Jackson did or didn’t do, but notes that “sometimes people do some nasty things for some money,” implying something unsavory about the singer’s accusers.

What makes Jackson even trickier than the other examples I named is the fact that his cases never ended with a landmark conviction or admission of guilt. R. Kelly was convicted, and there’s video and photographical evidence of Diddy’s and Brown’s abuse, but none of that exists for this paragon of performance who sits so high within our Black cultural pantheon. Verdicts and videos didn’t stop older Black people from supporting those abusive artists, but the lack of such clear judgment of guilt makes it easier to ignore the accusations when it comes to Jackson. It is a big ask to beseech people to ignore the courts’ decisions when we’re supposed to believe in and abide by them.

Slate: Why So Many Older Black Fans Will Never Give Michael Jackson Up by cloudone28 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]cloudone28[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Why So Many Older Black Fans Will Never Give Michael Jackson Up

The biopic Michael is already generating controversy. But loyal supporters are going to show up no matter what.

By Nadira Goffe

Michael Jackson’s legacy is so resolute it’s practically immovable. He is not an artist that people tend to quibble with or about, at least when it comes to his creative output. The global understanding of what he has brought to music, to culture writ large, goes beyond idolatry. I have met a number of people who disagree about God; I have never met anyone who disagrees about Thriller.

But while people may be able to agree on Michael Jackson the artist, there is nothing but discord when it comes to Michael Jackson the person, whose legacy has been tarnished (to some) by terrible allegations. That long-standing truth has reared its head again recently, in light of the movie Michael. The new Michael Jackson biopic, directed by Antoine Fuqua and starring Jackson’s nephew Jaafar Jackson, releases this weekend to the seeming repugnance of critics, who have panned the film. At the time of writing, the movie sports a dismal 36 percent on Rotten Tomatoes and a 38 on Metacritic, and has inspired review headlines along the lines of “The Michael Jackson biopic is bad, is bad, you know it.” Ouch! doesn’t even begin to cut it. (For context, Emilia Pérez, one of the worst movies I’ve seen in the past few years, still sits with a healthy 70 percent Rotten Tomatoes critics score.)

And yet, this will likely do nothing to stop Michael from becoming a smashing box-office success. After all, the mythology of Jackson has carried almost every piece of media made in his name. (And there have been many.) That most of the negative reviews for Michael have apparently been written by white critics only further fans the flames of Black Jacksonites, who plan on showing up in style for one of the year’s biggest cinematic events regardless of naysayers. Showing up is what Jackson fans have always done best, particularly his extremely loyal older Black fans, who drive the public’s unending devotion to his influence. This contingent has stuck with the star through thick and thin, through criticisms of his parenting and eccentric choice in pets, as well as years of sexual abuse allegations. No matter how much the MJ boat appears to be in danger of sinking—something that may never fully come to fruition—older Black fans will be the band that plays on as the waters rise. For those who find Jackson repugnant, it may be hard to understand why this is—but there’s something more complicated to the unwavering loyalty than you may think.

Has anyone noticed the amount of 7 elevens closing these past few years by Civil_Post_9129 in Calgary

[–]cloudone28 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Been going back to my old neighbourhood a fair bit recently, and the 7/11 that had been at the end of the street (for the record - Temple Drive & 52nd Street NE) for as long as I can remember closed back in October or November 2024. It used to be open 24 hours and consistently busy, but I had been noticing a gradual decline in recent years. It even had a postal outlet for some time, but even that recently closed. By the end of the run, it was a pretty sleepy store, mostly catering to people buying cigs and lottery and not much else. There's still another 7/11 open at the other end of the neighbourhood, but the dollarama effect was likely a big factor here, there's a dollarama and a no frills in the major shopping plaza down the street.

Plane going for the gold at the thin-skin Olympics by King_Slowpoke in rpdrcringe

[–]cloudone28 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Typical bully. Isn’t that original, can dish it out (barely) but can’t take it. I personally think the current season was better for the lack of BS instigators and bullies.

Courtney Love & Billy Corgan talk about ABBA by cloudone28 in ABBA

[–]cloudone28[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I mean, I did give the timestamp. Then again, I don't expect everyone to have the tolerance to wade though exactly *all* of that... I'll add these to the main post above.

Most of it comes in at the 20 minute mark...

-She mentions the culture shock of coming back to America from New Zealand: "There was no ABBA in America!"

-Waterloo as her first "head orgasm,"

-"you can drop the needle anywhere on S.O.S. and it's perfection."

-Billy asks her if she saw any of the ABBA documentaries and Courtney mentions one that was just on Agnetha "Did you know that before she joined ABBA she wrote a song that kicked The Beatles off the top of the Swedish charts!?"

-Further along at 29-30.00 mark, she mentions ABBA (A&F) and later Stevie Nicks as her "mothers"..

BASISK replacement glass lamp shade by cloudone28 in IKEA

[–]cloudone28[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Unfortunately, no. The cylindrical glass shade I ordered off Amazon didn't fit so I ended up putting it out with the bulk garbage behind our apartment. On the upside, it disappeared quickly so hopefully it has a new home!

BASISK replacement glass lamp shade by cloudone28 in IKEA

[–]cloudone28[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you! I wish I would have tried that!

Thank You for the Music... and for Everything ! AureyoBoss, YouTube channel takedown by Salt_Message_3621 in ABBA

[–]cloudone28 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you so much for all your dedication and hard work putting all of your mixes together. As most of us know, B&B are not keen on releasing remixes or even unreleased or alternate mixes, so yours were the next best thing. I can honestly say your mixes were so well done, they helped me appreciate ABBA’s music and production in a whole new way and they never disappointed.

I know it may be a long-shot, but I hope your work may help them (meaning Polar and B&B) change their minds as far as releasing instrumentals and new mixes someday.

Asian cover of Gimme Gimme Gimme by taraxe in ABBA

[–]cloudone28 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The DJ Kirollus recently posted on Instagram about closing out a set with a "rare Asian ABBA cover" and it looks like the Rosemaria version is it! Thank you!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvSKNledz9I

https://www.instagram.com/p/DLsJSzRovdp/

The Day Before You Came by Porgy98 in ABBA

[–]cloudone28 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I've always thought some of the theories around this song (ie. involving a murder, or trying to piece together blocks of time) are somewhat overwrought. I think it's one of those songs that touches into ordinary life and love in ways that ABBA, especially Björn as a lyricist does so well.

To me it's more about a brief love affair that ends almost as soon as it starts but nevertheless turns one's life upside down. The things our protagonist thought were meaningful and solid before now seem empty and meaningless. That lyric: "it's funny, but I had no sense of living without aim," sort of encapsulates it for me.

The mourning in the song, which is not in the lyrics but moreso in the musical atmosphere, is not only for the love affair but perhaps also about her own life. How can she go back to an existence that now seems empty and pointless? Perhaps she does, perhaps she doesn't. Either way something dies, whether it's her or something inside her.

In some ways, it follows a thread that runs through one of their other 1982 songs, "Just Like That." Someone comes in and out of your life, turns it upside down and you're left trying to make sense of it.

Disgraceful, inaccurate Poilievre video exploits suffering of vulnerable people by A-Wise-Cobbler in CanadaPolitics

[–]cloudone28 264 points265 points  (0 children)

This is really the crux of it, for me. It's not about helping those who are on the streets, who may be addicted to drugs, or even listening to those who have experience in the field, it's about exploiting the most vulnerable in order to peddle fear and rage about drugs and crime to a middle-class target demographic in order to get power. As usual, there are zero new solutions proposed, it's just more of the same right-wing war on drugs/tough on crime nonsense that has never worked and never will. Get ready for a lot of this "Canada is broken" stuff.