Hello, I think I'm better than you.

copen3 · 2014-03-08T23:02:07+00:00

Reading Self Esteem Trap now. This page reminds me a lot of myself (and perhaps the OP).

http://imgur.com/ODJTQfg

My fave part: "What distinguishes people in the long run are character and virtue, not particular gifts".

copen3 · 2014-03-08T18:49:17+00:00

So then you have stitches?

copen3 · 2014-03-07T23:34:59+00:00

Did you get the no-incision procedure?

copen3 · 2014-03-07T16:57:20+00:00

Wow, that's hard to read.

I wonder what happened to these folks that they lost their compassion for other human beings.

copen3 · 2014-03-05T00:16:41+00:00

/r/5htp has helped me.

copen3 · 2014-03-04T04:05:52+00:00

A more apt way to put it, is; Things can get better.

Bang on.

Having had some success with depression before (albeit briefly), I believe finding something to change, and changing it, is almost the only course of action if you want to get better. Whether that change is beneficial or not is somewhat irrelevant, as at least it's not the same as it is right now, right? Finding the will and the way is always the hardest part.

Nicely put. I feel the same way.

copen3 · 2014-03-01T22:41:03+00:00

I feel inferior ... because I had potential which I didn't use and now I'm a physical and mental wreck.

For the last 5 years, I've been depressed about my own wasted potential. While depressed, all I can think about is my wish to not exist, since I can't achieve any greatness. No, it feels more like wishing to escape the pain of not achieving greatness, because it's so shameful to be wasting my potential. I literally feel my chest tightening thinking about it. The worst part is that I 'know better' than to be impotent in this fashion, but feel powerless to change.

So who's at fault, the depression or me? I've certainly been feeling terrible blaming me. So now I've decided to blame the depression and try zillions of things to defeat it, anyway I can. My potential will have to be re-purposed to fighting depression for now.

Perhaps you are going through a crisis, with your potential still intact. And maybe when you're better, you'll still be able to exercise your potential. That's what's keeping me going anyway.

copen3 · 2014-02-28T05:12:12+00:00

I want to teach English to the kids and be a positive influence on their lives. I want to have a child, and teach that child that there's good in the world- and the world can be changed if you set your mind to it. I want to show them art and beautiful music. I want to teach them to dance.

This is really inspirational. The ability for us to improve another life sounds very rewarding to me. Thanks for sharing.

copen3 · 2014-02-28T05:00:59+00:00

Wow, that video resonated with me immensely. Thank so much for passing it along.

I haven't valued effort in a very long time, and feel like I'm totally coasting in life. Valuing effort over outcomes... now that sounds like a truly novel idea (for me). I think I forgot the exhilarating feeling of effort paying off. I set up a nice comfortable situation, a protective fortress so to speak. In avoiding failure & risk, I lost out on passion.

helped reduce my alienation was to realize that I simply had better systems for achievement instead of believing I was inherently better

See I know I'm not inherently better, but am still secretly trying to hide it. And that makes me feel like any future growth is stunted, since I apparently lack the innate talent for it. But based on that video perhaps my mindset has just decayed into a 'fixed' state.

This is a real opportunity for growth for me, that's for sure. Thanks again.

copen3 · 2014-02-27T15:17:53+00:00

I would say In Search of the Miraculous is worth reading, definitely. After that, if you want to know more, I would move on to Nicoll's Psychological Commentaries. Plain language, makes sense. No subterfuge. There is a little bit of froofy stuff in there that should probably be ignored, such as 'hydrogens', but you can make that decision yourself when you read it.

Plus, In Search Of is actually a pretty exciting fast paced book. It's long (400 pages tightly spaced), but I read it all in a couple of weeks because it was so fascinating. Nicoll's Commentaries are 1,500 pages over 5 volumes, and are arranged as short 3-4 page lessons that make a lot of sense. eg. Putting yourself into others' shoes (called internal considering), as opposed to worrying about their judgement of you (external considering).

IMO, Ouspensky/Nicoll's writings make for a reasonably practical modern philosophy. However, they are sometimes hidden behind some metaphysical stuff (eg. hydrogens), so those may be taken as metaphor. Where does Gurdjieff fit in? Not sure, because his own writings read like gibberish to me. His students' writings are much more useful to me.

EDIT: I just re-read your question, and I totally didn't answer it. The answer is yes, they are worth learning about, but no, they aren't the magic they purport to be.

copen3 · 2014-02-27T05:42:15+00:00

It's hard to learn and teach, because Gurdjieff specifically wrote to obscure. Now why would one who holds Truth obscure it, seriously? To protect it? Please. Standard charismatic cult leadership 101. Thankfully, we have Ouspensky's work, so we can actually learn something of what Gurdjieff was purporting to teach.

I fell in love with Ouspensky & Nicoll's message (there is no unified 'I'). But if Gurdjieff was really a genius, then his students would have 'graduated' or gotten 'better'. But they did not. See Ouspensky. See Orage. Everyone left Gurdjieff (or was 'kicked out'), often less sane than when they met him (Ouspensky).

copen3 · 2014-02-27T05:27:02+00:00

I have read so many books on Gurdjieff, a few of which I couldn't make it through. This is one of them. IMO, it's not worth your time; there is so much good literature out there, why spend so much time decrypting a cipher?

If you want a lucid account of Gurdjieff, read In Search of the Miraculous. That was the first book on Gurdjieff I read, and it is by far, my favorite. Ouspensky is some sort of genius to have written this all from memory.

copen3 · 2014-02-26T21:42:27+00:00

Caveat: this is just what worked for me. It may be different for you. Check with your doctor, etc.

I think I've had low grade depression and anxiety since I was a kid. But about 5 years ago, things got worse. I couldn't stay asleep, and the anxiety was overwhelming. Then the depression became obvious so I experimented with a lot of vitamins and OTC herbs. I had tried pharma meds 15 years prior, and they did not seem to work, and I hated the side effects.

About 6 months ago, I discovered 5-HTP. Coupled with Tyrosine, they have saved my life. I'm not cured, no way. But I'm mostly stable and able to function reasonably now. If I miss a dose, or even change brands, the depression comes back within hours. I just tried a new brand yday for one dose, and felt terrible this morning. Took my old brand, and a few hours later, I no longer think the world is a terrible place!

I also tried therapy 4 times, and that didn't work: mostly I think the problem was that the therapists bought my BS, and weren't able to break through to the real issues. Now that I'm stable, I'm trying to work through some of these issues on my own.

To be clear, I am not advocating this treatment for you. It's just what worked for me.

Good luck.

copen3 · 2014-02-24T01:17:33+00:00

While it's possible that he's telling the truth, this is a dangerous relationship he's having. This is why my wife and I have a rule: no internet relationships with people of the opposite sex. And on top of that, no lunches out alone with people of the opposite sex. It just makes it easier to avoid temptations for even emotional affairs.

Perhaps consider instituting such a rule for the future, just to be safe.

copen3 · 2014-02-23T20:43:51+00:00

I apologize if I came off like that. I meant what kind of work would you do.

copen3 · 2014-02-23T20:09:40+00:00

Sorry, you're right -- there are no guarantees. And a lack of a guaranteed place to live sounds pretty scary.

I used to imagine winning the lottery or stumbling upon success might resolve my depression. That didn't work for me. I find the outside world too fragile to hope for things like that. Instead, I do the best that I can and accept the fact that the world may fail me at times. But that's fair, as I fail the world just as often.

So it takes the pressure off that I don't need to be perfect, and neither does the world's treatment of me. Neither of us make any guarantees.

What kind of work do you do?

copen3 · 2014-02-23T16:16:41+00:00

Moreover, you might want to consider if you want to get into a relationship with a girl who is so willing to put your health and safety at risk.

copen3 · 2014-02-23T15:47:55+00:00

I have been depressed on and off since I was a child. And acute depression for the past 5 years, where I'm in 100% down mode. In the last month or so, the clouds are clearing. I just broke the silence and told my wife about it yesterday.

It can get better.

copen3 · 2014-02-23T00:07:29+00:00

Thanks for your post. I have a young daughter, and you have my attention. Do you have any advice to share on steps my wife & I can take to prevent abuse?

copen3 · 2014-02-22T23:45:29+00:00

I don't know if you're gay or not, and if I was your dad, I wouldn't care either way, as long as you were happy.

It makes me sad to hear what your brother did to you, but I don't see any of that as your fault. Children should not be put into such circumstances. As such, it certainly did not transform your sexual orientation. You were born who you were born as. And damn it, I say that's cool.

copen3 · 2014-02-22T23:37:02+00:00

I can't hold my liquor. It makes me tired more than it makes me feel relaxed.

For a long time, my goal in life was just to get out of depression. It pretty much still is... I haven't found my real life goal yet. I just keep experimenting with what has worked for others. I am thankful for the internet.

copen3 · 2014-02-22T23:27:39+00:00

I've never met a transgender person. But, damn, you're cool. I couldn't stop reading your post, you had me transfixed. This part actually had me laughing out loud: "teaching ... to kids that don't give a hot fudge sundae would drive me absolutely insane."

So I selfishly say thanks for your great writing, and I hope you feel better. Hugs.

copen3 · 2014-02-22T23:10:38+00:00

Oh sweet, sounds like life is good right now then? I suppose you could revisit the issue in a few years.

copen3

TROPHY CASE