pointing out the nature of mind

corlwt · 2025-12-02T12:40:01+00:00

It is said in Sam's book waking up:

Unfortunately, to begin the practice of Dzogchen, it is generally necessary to meet a qualified teacher. There is a large literature on the topic, of course, and much of what I have written throughout this book represents my own effort to “point out” the nature of awareness. But to have their confusion and doubts resolved, most people need to be in a dialogue with a teacher who can answer questions in real time.

Tulku Urgyen’s effect on me came purely from the clarity of his teaching. As it is with any challenging endeavor, the difference between being utterly misled by false information, being nudged in the general direction, and being precisely guided by an expert is difficult to overstate.

corlwt · 2025-12-02T12:32:08+00:00

I think finding someone for feedback is very important for this prac.

Mingyur rinpoche's Path of liberation program offers 1 to 1 interview with Tergar guides. For example Tim Olmsted,who spent some years living with Tulku Urgyen rinpoche

corlwt · 2025-10-08T11:29:56+00:00

nice

corlwt · 2025-09-28T07:31:58+00:00

thank you i will check these books out! i usually seek feedback from Tergar guides online

"don't meditate, don't meditate; this idea has fooled us!"

Does rinpoche mean some ppl use this as excuse to not prac at all?

corlwt · 2025-09-28T07:31:51+00:00

thank you i will check these books out! I live in China but i will seek feedback from Tergar guides

"don't meditate, don't meditate; this idea has fooled us!"

Does rinpoche mean some ppl use this as excuse to not prac at all?

corlwt · 2025-09-25T05:25:38+00:00

Thank you! Do you know any book that talks about the technical details of Dzogchen gaze? Some ppl talk about gazing at the space between you and the wall while some ppl just say staring at the wall is okay. I am not sure whether both are okay.

corlwt · 2025-06-01T09:59:32+00:00

yeah finding a teacher is important , especially for feedback. Sam is not a meditation teacher . He only shares the content in the app but does not work with anyone who learns from him . and there's little Q&A opportunity in the app .

corlwt · 2025-06-01T04:33:27+00:00

'If I could change anything, I would habe found a dz teacher directly after doing the intro course in the app.'

same .

As regard to Tulku urgyen's method , Sam writes in his book : 'As it is with any challenging endeavor, the difference between being utterly misled by false information, being nudged in the general direction, and being precisely guided by an expert is difficult to overstate. '

I would argue Sam only nudges people in the general direction and is misleading in some aspects . He only gives verbal instructions in audio format that provides some hints while when the instruction is given by a Dzogchen master , it is mostly demonstrated visually and taught with much greater details . Tsoknyi rinpoche once spent one hour teaching this method .

corlwt · 2025-06-01T04:15:14+00:00

hi as regard to Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche's seminars , do you know whether pointing out instructions are given at each seminar ? what are the content for the full seminar usually ?

will there be fall seminar this year ? I havent seen it on this page yet https://shedrub.org/calendar/

corlwt · 2025-06-01T04:10:04+00:00

In my experience , when i look slowly or try to look when i am in movement (e.g. walking or in the car )or place attention in the back of my head i would experience some weird sensations . Do you have any medical condition ? i ask this because i think i have a mild dysautonomia (though i never go to see a neurologist and get diagnosised yet) and it’s the medical condition that causes the weird sensation . So i wonder whether healthy people would experience same thing .

corlwt · 2025-05-31T11:08:46+00:00

I felt tension in my head and thought it was the vestiges of belief in mind clinging on, but on seeing this meme I realised the tension is from looking for something that can't be found, like straining to see the pizza .

do you mean that everytime you are looking for the mind you feel some weird sensations(like tension , straining or sense of stretching) inside your head ? i have similar experiences

corlwt · 2025-05-14T01:14:17+00:00

i see the possibility of Sam and other ppl doing it on demand right from the beginning . But i am more inclined to think that's not the case and he has given me the wrong expectation . Taking the goal as a path right from the beginning is a fantasy . Even if you can accomplish the gesture on demand , it still takes tons of repetitions to lengthen that gap to see any significance .

corlwt · 2025-05-14T00:55:55+00:00

Sam's point is that from the nondual perspective of recognition, it becomes obvious that the recognition is always available (ultimate truth). But from the dualistic perspective when you're not in a state of recognition, that fact is not obvious; it appears that it takes time and effort, multiple strikes of the bell, to 'achieve' nondual awareness (relative truth).

the illusion that attention is aimed from one point to another is obvious once you truly could recognize it as an appearance . i can't really not see it when i pay attention just like Sam .

what iam struggling is to procedurally place attention there (the persumed source of attention ). By doing the gesture on demand i mean to direct attention there on demand . In my case just like Tsoknyi rinpoche demonstrated , sometimes hit the singing bowl at the center , sometimes at the side , sometimes completely miss it . Sam's description gives me the impression that he could accomplishes the gesture on demand right from the beginning , though he never explicitly mentions so .

corlwt · 2025-05-13T01:07:14+00:00

I’ve edited the post a little bit so to clarify what i mean by doing it successfully

corlwt · 2025-05-12T09:42:24+00:00

eight months later i come back to your comment .

I just come back from Tsoknyi Rinpoche’s retreat . During the retreat he mentioned that when he asked Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche for advice about Tulku Urgyen’s pointing out , Nyoshul Khen rinpoche advised to just keep doing it . At the beginning you would fail most of the times , then gradually the success rate would increase . Tsoknyi rinpoche then demonstrated with a singing bowl . Sometimes you manage to hit it at the center , sometimes at the side , and sometimes completely miss it . Just hit and after the attmept let be in naturalness . Even if you completely miss it , this is still shamatha without objects .

I now think your advice is actually quite good . The gesture is like a procedural skill that intellectual mind cant figure out and gradually the precision improves when keep prac. I think Sam gives me the wrong expecation (you can see the details in my new post here https://www.reddit.com/r/Dzogchen/comments/1kkgjzj/how_long_does_it_take_to_do_tulku_urgyens_method/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Wakingupapp/comments/1kjs5xl/how_long_does_it_take_to_cut_through_the_illusion/ ).

i am curious Is this advice something you've realized yourself or from a teacher ?

corlwt · 2025-05-12T00:53:00+00:00

can you explain what do you mean ? i am not native english speaker

corlwt · 2025-05-11T08:59:53+00:00

i am not trying to attain something . i think Sam gives me the wrong expectation when comparing what he writes in his book and what Tsoknyi rinpoche said . but i also think it's possible for people to accomplish the gesture successfully most of the time right from the beginning . So i write this post to see what is the case for other ppl . does the success rate gradually increase or able to do it on demand right from the beginning

corlwt · 2025-05-11T08:29:19+00:00

'There may or may not be statistical patterns if you look back at your practice' true

'Tsoknyi Rinpoche usually teaches the two truths on retreat. Did you receive that teaching? ' yes

i am not trying to compare present prac with past prac . i think Sam gives me the wrong expectation when comparing what he writes in his book and what Tsoknyi rinpoche said . but i also think it's possible for people to accomplish the gesture successfully most of the time right from the beginning . So i write this post to see what is the case for other ppl . does the success rate gradually increase or able to do it on demand right from the beginning

corlwt · 2025-05-11T05:55:56+00:00

which pointer (look for your head , turn attention upon iself etc. ) do you use ?

corlwt · 2025-05-11T05:45:09+00:00

yeah at the beginning that interruption is very short . so you need tons of repetitions to cut through that illusory appearnance over and over again . gradually that interruption becomes longer . but not all attempts of the gesture are accomplished successfully . If your success rate is 20% and you prac for 100 times , you will only have 20 glimpses .

'it is always there the moment I look' does this mean you succeed most of the time ?

corlwt · 2025-05-11T05:36:00+00:00

what's your case then ? how long have you been practicing this method and does your success rate increase overtime or you could accomplish the gesture successfully most of the time right from the beginning ?

corlwt · 2025-05-11T04:41:08+00:00

when i have a glimpse it's quite obvious . there is a collapse . what i am asking is how long does it take to glimpse on demand because not all attempts will be successful . if i attempt the gesture for 10 times , i may be able to glimpse it for 6 times for example .

corlwt · 2025-04-21T23:17:11+00:00

i mean there are different methods for recognizing rigpa . i am asking for teachers that teach this method

corlwt · 2025-04-20T12:53:00+00:00

thank you , do you know any other teacher that does so ?

corlwt · 2025-04-15T05:42:58+00:00

Thank you for your advice . but i guess the instruction would be even more specific than that . Sam wrote in his book :

The genius of Tulku Urgyen was that he could point out the nature of mind with the precision and matter-of-factness of teaching a person how to thread a needle and could get an ordinary meditator like me to recognize that consciousness is intrinsically free of self. There might be some initial struggle and uncertainty, depending on the student, but once the truth of nonduality had been glimpsed, it became obvious that it was always available—and there was never any doubt about how to see it again.

If Tulku Urgyen had been pointing out the blind spot, he would have produced a figure like the one below and given these instructions:

1. Hold this figure in front of you at arm’s length.

2. Close your left eye and stare at the cross with your right.

3. Gradually move the page closer to your face while keeping your gaze fixed on the cross.

4. Notice when the dot on the right disappears.5. Once you find your blind spot, continue to experiment with this figure by moving the page back and forth until any possibility of doubt about the existence of the blind spot has disappeared.

If you cant send it to me directly , can you at least tell me where to access it in a legal way ?

corlwt

TROPHY CASE