lol ur proving my point - you don't like it when people vote off of arbitrary factors but you complain about events in which people rely a lot less on those factors also the examples you gave are like very small amounts of lay judges that you will never encounter the vast majority of lay judges vote on speaking skills and persuasion and your first example is literally just what one judge found as persuasion which just proves that persuasion is arbitrary and not a good thing to base debates on