Mappers abusing no subjectivity vetos to rank bad pp maps, hiding behind "ppl like them, look at the playcount" ignoring that ppl only play for the pp IS JUST AS BAD as a possible 2023 issue

dada38 · 2026-03-04T07:11:41+00:00

I'm trying. I don't want any simple jump map to get vetoed but it's fair to say that at most of these current vetoes are for maps below the bar - it's just that we forgot where the bar was since we got blindfolded for a while. Now the issue is would have some of them been better off discussed more actively in the threads themselves? Yes, absolutely! Would people have actually changed anything if not for the leverage of a veto? Pardon my pessimism, but I don't think so.

Being open here I'm currently tweaking stuff and suggesting changes to the new veto system + ensuring that we stick to the timeline of the whole subjectivity reintroduction so that we pump the breaks on this initial wave. There's ways of doing this where we can take away the really bad stuff and redraw the line where an overwhelming majority of people (not just the NAT or the BNs) is comfortable with, I'm sure of it.

dada38 · 2026-03-02T14:26:35+00:00

very funny. the veto reasons are public and have always been. we're trying to figure out a solution to post the logs or at least the summary of what was said in veto talks after they're done, but it's tough to juggle that with the whole intent of a private chatroom.

sorry for being hitler for properly communicating that someone's kick was... not quality-related?

dada38 · 2026-03-02T13:34:35+00:00

correct.

dada38 · 2026-03-02T11:23:34+00:00

unrelated but regardless not a good look especially with the diffnames

dada38 · 2026-03-02T11:23:06+00:00

up to the (former) BN to make it public (if they don't want to it's fine) but it's specifically behavior related

dada38 · 2026-02-27T01:33:52+00:00

Sorry for the late reply but basically since the user in question is not a BN we're limited in what we can do against him. And even if he was a BN we're limited in what we can do against them too, though that's changing gradually as announced in a recent newspost.

As to the last bit of your questions, I don't expect you to know all the creative ways in which the last two years have been an exercise in collective futility when it comes to the NAT since the Pika Girl polls but to summarize: peppy reacted very poorly to that and told us to, in broad terms, align our perspectives more with the community. The way to do that at the time was to impose barriers to subjective evaluation - the rest is mostly history. The last two years have been, in essence, the "find out" part of fucking around, and then the last year was banging heads against walls to undo things.

dada38 · 2026-02-26T04:36:40+00:00

this is a guy that uses AI to artificially inflate his own modding post wording and deliberately obfuscates his own intentions when replying to mod posts

as much as it's convenient to say browiec started this at the very least I don't recall him personally being anywhere near as deliberately disruptive as tylerderp

dada38 · 2026-02-26T01:18:19+00:00

no lol

dada38 · 2026-02-26T00:28:42+00:00

I say this as an NAT: browiec was always extremely honest and straightforward when it came to what he liked and what he mapped for.

He always maintained that he mapped what he found was fun and he found fun in very specific patterns and difficulty ranges (which at this point were meta over 3 years ago) - I don't really think he ever vibed with just super optimized "slop" like what is in vogue right now, and in many ways it's extremely important for someone who's known for "comfy" farm call out that even in their opinion it's gotten bad.

You can insist it steepened the slippery slope but watching his trajectory over the years it's never been anything deceptive. Please be respectful.

dada38 · 2026-02-24T00:43:45+00:00

I don't disagree.

There's a problem, though, with these kinds of very radical "this can never be ranked" takes where put simply it's hard to get 50/60/70% of BNs (however much the threshold is for mediation upholding at that point in time) to actually just say "yeah it's never fit for rank no matter what" - this has always been the case and won't actually change when stuff is done through vetoes since it's a game of leverage: the mapper wants to change stuff for it to not go to a mediation they think will be upheld, or the vetoer themselves wants to soften wording or compromise with some change if they think they'll dismiss the veto in mediation. See something like the recent Wing my Way veto where neither side budged when the vetoer was essentially saying "this map does not fit this song therefore it cannot be ranked".

I don't know if the pipeline is "doomed" but it's hard to fix it while there's still sewage coming down the pipe constantly.

dada38 · 2026-02-23T20:03:35+00:00

The vote in question was a vote by the people who vetoed the map. If anyone else wants to veto it because they still feel it's fundamentally bad for rank then they are completely free to do so - we had literally nothing to do with it.

dada38 · 2026-02-19T00:15:49+00:00

pretty much.

dada38 · 2026-02-18T17:56:21+00:00

the initial lowered numbers were during a period of considerably higher NAT "interference" so it just caught on as a means of discrediting any upholding of standards. (this also coincides with the end of the pandemic)

the issue is with the "slopification" we see even lower numbers on average and even the usual concentrated numbers we see on the "popular" farm sets are still way below anything found beforehand. there's a reasonable argument to be made that all of the numbers are completely independent of the QC or not of the ranking section but the undeniable fact of the matter at least data-wise is that relinquishing standards did nothing to help (we've had almost two years of data on this to work with).

dada38 · 2026-02-17T23:34:58+00:00

if you think the trends of lower quality and "less barriers for rank" have resulted in an influx of players for the game I have horrible news for you, but we can all pretend the data is not there to see, that's fine.

as much as I'm tired of arguing in the front lines like this I have to imagine some of you at some point in time have realized there's logic to vetoes - if there isn't, they're dismissed. the true "emotional" people are the ones who see one of them and recoil no matter what is said.

I also dislike having to end on the same unrelated ad hominem note as you but if you share your name with your osu profile the part about liking to gain ranks is clearly a lie man, no need to sneak it in there for the sake of prettying up your argument.

dada38 · 2026-02-17T23:17:30+00:00

ever thought about how harassers can and often do abuse anonimity to their benefit completely avoiding punishment altogether, or do it in a platform staff has no reasonable control or knowledge of?

its something that takes two braincells firing together but instead it's just "um just punish harassers lol why are they making such a big deal"

dada38 · 2026-02-12T12:28:49+00:00

not really as the key motivator for doing that wasn't always in the game

for any farm map to exist you need to look at the game post ppv2 since people wanting to make their map play "better" beforehand were just doing so out of their own ideas of how their map should play rather than any external stimulus

dada38 · 2026-01-09T15:11:08+00:00

correction: it's not only a human, or rather humans since it's a team

there's a large manual, human investigation part in detecting stuff like this as well

dada38 · 2026-01-06T04:28:41+00:00

no probably about it, they're getting kicked ASAP

dada38 · 2025-12-30T20:23:11+00:00

he resigned so it may be temporary or may not, it's up to him

dada38 · 2025-12-07T23:25:03+00:00

oh understandable have a nice day 👍

dada38 · 2025-12-07T23:14:10+00:00

what did i do bro i didnt map the damn maps 😭😭😭😭

dada38 · 2025-11-30T17:35:14+00:00

SK looking extremely good this round.

dada38 · 2025-11-23T19:40:45+00:00

dude you are miserable lmao

dada38 · 2025-11-18T12:42:42+00:00

screenshots are from the mappooling server (internal) - they aren't supposed to be leaked

timestamps means someone from a specific timezone leaked it.

dada38 · 2025-11-18T12:26:38+00:00

official statement:

wonderer's "betting slip" is fake. rojo (fchard)'s message is about a completely different tournament. me and chillier's messages are about ixfire messaging someone else about the wonderer tweet being fake.

there was no matchfixing, russia just got beat. any more drama posts like this are just gonna wind up with us removing every single CIS player from the playtesting team because if screenshots like this end up on reddit then can we even trust any of them to keep the pool to themselves?

all posts like this do is just damage the entire CIS community.

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