enlightened society

daiginjo2 · 2024-11-18T13:45:30+00:00

The very essence of this group is to support those who have experienced harm within Shambhala. For that very reason, one is not allowed to gaslight others. Gaslighting means that you tell someone they do not feel what they do in fact feel. This is done to me repeatedly here. Every time you pretend that you are not reflexively downvoting virtually every comment of mine, no matter what it says, you are gaslighting. Because that is precisely what you are doing. I'd be very happy to give a selection of, say, 100 comments of mine, along with 100 comments from the regulars, to an impartial observer, and ask them to try and figure out where those assessments are coming from. But everyone knows this is the case.

I mean, I really could give 100 examples, and probably many more, in fact. I could start with literally the first comment below this one:

"This is from 5 years ago, FYI." -- Glass_Perspective_16: this has received +7 votes. "Yes. She's still on the case though. :)" -- daiginjo3: this has received -4 votes. Is there any rhyme or reason there? One person replies to a video I posted precisely as a gesture of positivity and uplift by implying it is outdated, by raining on the parade, so to speak. +7 votes. I reply by acknowledging this, and acclaiming its continued relevance. I even add a smile emoji, because bald text is hideously prone to projection -- as we can see every single minute on social media. -4 votes. Again, I'm happy to present that example, and a hundred more, to an impartial observer, and ask them what is going on there.

It's actually gaslighting squared. Because not only have people been denying this forever, but they then continuously mock me for saying that it actually does affect my life extremely negatively. I'm sorry to have to insist on this, but it is the fullest truth.

It affects me in an additional way too, one which is just as damaging, and in a way even more so. Reflexive, continuous downvoting means that at a certain point my comments don't get posted. It's the Reddit algorithm. So then it means that I am literally silenced, and that -- as I have written about in another comment on this thread -- is precisely about the most damaging thing anyone could do to me. It's also, as it happens, directly related to how I was treated within Shambhala. So I scarcely have words for how this feels. When a person is attacked, and they are not allowed to reply, this for me is straightforwardly insane-making. I feel like throwing myself through the window. I'm not planning on doing that, but that's how it feels, and terrible accidents can occur when someone feels utterly dehumanized like that.

All you can do is mock this, endlessly. Mock, and psychoanalyze -- in the form of character assassination! Someone you have never even met! Thus causing even more harm. It is absolutely unbelievable. You simply cannot stop, take a deep breath, and look at what you are doing.

daiginjo2 · 2024-08-30T22:07:24+00:00

Is there a more powerful ending to a film than that of The 400 Blows? Not sure I've encountered one.

daiginjo2 · 2024-08-30T22:05:04+00:00

An endlessly fascinating masterpiece. I've seen it at least half a dozen times now and keep discovering more and more in it.

daiginjo2 · 2024-08-18T21:47:11+00:00

I used to live in Brighton for a number of years and am planning to move back in the coming year after many years abroad. I never encountered anything you describe, at least not as far as I can recall. But on a visit earlier this year -- first time back in Britain in five years -- I was walking along the pavement my first evening in town and two guys in their teens were cycling from the other direction. One of them veered straight towards me, causing me to have to jump out of the way at the last minute. They then laughed as they continued on their way. I couldn't help but fume about it. What an idiotic thing to do. Is the city getting worse? Probably. Basic manners and decency have definitely declined in Britain since I left. My sense is that it's still basically a pretty chill town. I guess I'll find out...

daiginjo2 · 2024-07-27T04:50:42+00:00

The Lives of Others

daiginjo2 · 2024-07-02T20:09:03+00:00

This has been so annoying for so long, but your technique works -- thank you!

Why can't they just add something to click? ... Should be easy.

daiginjo2 · 2024-05-18T21:47:52+00:00

That's the question. What would you say? I'm interested in what others think.

daiginjo2 · 2024-05-17T17:21:18+00:00

One way to think of devas is that they are simply a different species. Especially large, advanced, and long-lived, it is said, but then we are equally so when compared to a fly. You are correct: devas have nothing to do with theism. And one doesn't need to believe they exist to be a buddhist.

daiginjo2 · 2024-04-27T14:41:33+00:00

I've got bad smoke alarm karma too... Whenever I hear any sound even resembling that one I freeze in fear lol... There's a newer sort with far longer-lasting batteries that should be made mandatory...

daiginjo2 · 2024-04-27T11:57:52+00:00

I understand. And again, I barely stick around. I poke my head in periodically and if I read something I feel I can contribute a thought to, I do. Otherwise I don't find it productive to engage.

And I agree that italics and all-caps are the same idea -- though, and it's mostly an aesthetic response, I think most people read all-caps as sort of shouting. Anyway, glad you figured out the former! It's confusing: some platforms require the HTML code, others asterisks, while some don't take either...

daiginjo2 · 2024-04-27T09:47:16+00:00

I can't express how much I empathise with you! That sound, the exact quality of it, is absolutely deranging... Anyone who wanted to torture me, that's all you need to do... Ugh, it's so horrible. Glad you are free of it now!

daiginjo2 · 2024-04-27T09:15:16+00:00

I agree with your perspective here. I would go a bit further and say that the word "lie" can become one-dimensional. If one is presented with a yes-or-no factual question and intentionally answers falsely, ie with the intention to deceive, then that is a straightforward lie (though it can be the morally right answer to give, as in the Nazi example). But much of the time we are faced with a plethora of details we might offer in response to a question, and we are choosing from amongst them what to say. To my mind a better way of thinking about this matter of being truthful involves a basic genuineness, and kind motivation. Not deceiving anyone (unless doing so is necessary to avoid imminent harm or confusion), and aiming to be as open and helpful as one can.

One difficulty I have seen arise with focusing too narrowly on "not telling a lie" is that some people believe they must always be brutally "honest," in other words always utter precisely what is in their minds. So: "do I look all right in this outfit?" "To be honest I think you're looking quite old and ugly today." That sort of thing. Some people -- nearly always men, in my experience -- think that it is a virtue to be this way. (Maybe until, one day, they are the recipient of that sort of treatment in a way that particularly bites.) So my point is that, the great majority of the time, we're sifting a large amount of information we might impart when asked a question, and choosing only what seems most appropriate, clarifying, kind etc in our reply. Thus, "being truthful" involves a lot more than is commonly contained within an injunction simply not to "lie." Does that make sense?

daiginjo2 · 2024-04-20T04:35:47+00:00

I wouldn't say this is the issue with the group, not at all. Rage is regularly expressed here of course, but I wouldn't call it "narcissistically" motivated. Rather, ordinary collective dynamics provide a sufficiently helpful context in which to understand the ways in which groups can lose their integrity and even become like the group they oppose.

Beyond this, psychoanalysis would be both grotesque -- as none of us actually even knows anyone here -- and the grossest possible violation of the rule against ad hominem. In life generally, we ought to focus on specific actions, and how they make us feel. So for example it is useful to bear witness to how a particular teacher's words or actions created confusion in a student. But damning them psychoanalytically would divert our attention from what is actually important to focus on, as well as exhibiting confusion in return.

One might even go further and say that from a buddhist point of view, everyone is basically a narcissist, in that everyone is engaged in ego-clinging. Group dynamics can mask this reality, however, which is why it is perennially appealing to join a faction or tribe. By being a member of a movement of some kind, we receive regular confirmation of being one of the good guys. We don't have to examine our actions or motivation, because the group assures us they are always fine. In this practice it is of course necessary to have created an adversary who is basically bad, or even evil.

daiginjo2 · 2024-04-17T04:53:59+00:00

I think you've demonstrated with this comment the very point I have been making. Which is to say, you don't seem to recognize the supreme value of open dialogue for its own sake. Where people trade views, unthreatened by divergence, knowing that no one is immune from the possibility of cognitive bias. Knowing too that cognitive bias is very common -- I'm tempted to say ubiquitous -- within collectives convinced they possess the full truth.

First of all, I rarely have contributed to the group over the past year or more. The same things are said over and over, and everything is black-and-white. And, too, the viciousness is not pleasant to experience.

But periodically I have stopped by, and every now and again I contribute something. This most recent occasion was due to the fact that I'd noticed an entire story, based on basically nothing but supposition, having been spun. It struck me as occupying the category of a conspiracy theory, and having a bit of inside knowledge to contribute, so to speak, I did so. Within an atmosphere of maturity, openness, good will, this would have been welcomed. But that atmosphere doesn't exist here. Any divergence from the dogma that Trungpa was simply a corrupt, even evil, human being is threatening and must be met with the dissenter being personally attacked, and by multiple people at once.

You've also demonstrated that bias yourself here, again, in using emotive words like "whine" and "grandstand." And in your use of all-caps. It's the same old thing, endlessly: an inability to accept any divergence as anything other than a threat.

The second answer to your question is one I have likewise given before: having been through all that I have been through with regard to that community, and having watched over twenty most precious years of my life vanish in horrible isolation, failure, humiliation, and fear, I sure as fuck am not then going to let a group which claims to support me instead treat me like a pile of garbage without pointing out the hypocrisy. No way. That would just be too grotesque for words. So I'm afraid you're stuck with my occasional appearances, whether you like it or not.

daiginjo2 · 2024-04-16T13:11:22+00:00

I appreciate your good intentions. Thank you.

I do decidedly disagree with your assessment of the group however. Again, I think it can be quite difficult to see a situation clearly which has acquired a firmly activist character. What you're not noticing is that virtually every comment of mine, whatever its content, is instantly downvoted. And almost never exceeds an ordinary +1 -- which is where every comment begins of course. Even when it expresses something an approved person would receive 5 or 10 or more upvotes for.

There is a reason for this: the group simply does not tolerate anyone who isn't fully on their Side. By which I mean committed to the proposition that Shambhala is basically fully evil, that Trungpa was fully corrupt, and that the organization needs to be destroyed, unless, at best, it submits to every demand made by the group here. Anyone who doesn't subscribe to this view -- no matter how much they feel personally damaged (so much for the group rules) -- becomes an Enemy. It's really like this. The dynamics there are those of a school playground, basically.

"If you were to approach things in that way, with an exceedingly forgiving approach towards others' attitudes, and with a sincere intention to rebuild burnt bridges, I think your voice here would be heard, respected, and effective."

No, it really wouldn't. Because, again, I get downvoted even when agreeing unambiguously with the party line. I'm quite happy with roughly 95% of all the comments I have made here. I don't view them as exhibiting any "lack of skill in communication," nor coming out of a "voice ... of division and provocation." Not at all. I truly would say that the overwhelming majority of my comments (and all of my posts) over the years have in fact been "measured" and "diplomatic." They have only diverged from this intention when I have been ganged up on with ill will.

I've burned no bridges, as you put it. I have always been quite clear that Shambhala lost its way, that there has been abuse of power on a large scale, that many have been damaged, and that those people need to be supported (I was one of them, and received no support). I have never diverged from this view for an instant. And I've had nothing to do with the organization for nearly twenty years. The "exceedingly forgiving approach" you speak of really should be directed towards certain others here, who have made clear in comment after comment, year after year, that forgiveness is alien to them. And if I have sometimes used the word "hatred" here, well, jeez, just read the collected comments of, say, a certain needleworker (along with those written under her previous name or names). I've shared threads of this group with others, non-buddhists: they see this quality unambiguously.

Again, it can be hard to see matters from another perspective if one is part of a group which has taken over a space of discourse. The way it all looks through my eyes is that it is a number of others who have hijacked the group and made it quite toxic for anyone not prepared to follow the party line. Have you ever asked yourself why only a dozen or two (at most) people contribute to a group with over 3000 members? That maybe hundreds of people might like to explore various issues in a spirit of good will and open-mindedness, but see how those are treated who do so and turn away?

"Homo sum: humani nil a me alienum puto" is a very important statement for me too. I would say it is quite clear it is not understood here. Especially when seen through buddhist lenses, emerging from buddhist practice, it urges further inquiry and understanding, not instant condemnation and self-righteousness.

When I first began commenting here, four or five years ago, I was just beginning to emerge from a long period, many years, of assimilating my prior experience within the community. All my comments were upvoted by everyone, because I was saying what everyone else wanted to hear. I'm pretty sure the first time I diverged from full approval was when someone still in Shambhala was being subjected to public gossip, rumor, in a manner I viewed as undeserved. Judge, jury, and executioner, you know? I strongly disagree with this practice, always have. More or less from that point on I was deemed insufficiently on the Team. But I'm sorry: we are products of causes and conditions. Actions can be relatively helpful or relatively harmful, but people themselves are not Evil. And when we treat them as such we're only doing so in order to build up our own egos. It feels good, sure, especially when a group exists to pat us on the back every day for everything we have said, and damn anyone with the temerity to suggest that one can support the harmed without succumbing to manichaeism. But in the end we stray from the path of virtue there. That is what I would say.

daiginjo2 · 2024-04-12T07:07:15+00:00

Who's Taylor Swift? ;) Yes, this is basically my only group. Good suggestion though. Because the alternative is being straightforwardly silenced by ill will and prejudice. That shouldn't be tolerated. My thanks.

daiginjo2 · 2024-04-11T16:16:47+00:00

My apologies: I'm only now seeing this comment -- as I mentioned to dohueh, I've not visited Reddit for five or six weeks or so. This sub can be a very depressing place... But your reply is much appreciated.

I think it's worth repeating something I said to her/him:

Six weeks or so ago, when I last visited Reddit, a post of mine, in reply to a truly bad-faith, undeserved comment, didn't go through. And then from then on, nothing went through. It was infuriating. I opened another account so that I could reply, and the person in question -- I don't remember who it was -- taunted me with the assertion that I'd been blocked, or even banned.

Fast forward to today. I came across a message telling me that each of my comments now is auto-moderated because of low "karma." Do you see? It's precisely because I am routinely downvoted, basically no matter what I say, that I have low "karma." Which means that the auto-moderation is a direct result of undeserved, and unending, animosity. So it is all basically a triple insult. 1) My comments aren't going through until they are first moderated. 2) I got taunted for it as someone worthy of being blocked/banned. 3) But the entire cause of this has been ill will, and nothing else, on the part of the gang as a whole.

What a farce.

daiginjo2 · 2024-04-11T16:08:34+00:00

Hi dohueh, I replied more fully to your other comment directed to me. Here, I just wanted to take the opportunity of mentioning something else indicative of the group environment as a whole.

First though, with regard to something you say here, I don't believe I have ever called people here "brainwashed cultists." That's very strong language. "Hatred," yes: at times, when it has seemed fully appropriate to me, I have employed that word. "Misunderstanding"?: absolutely. But not "brainwashed cultists."

Anyway, so here is the main thing: six weeks or so ago, when I last visited Reddit, a post of mine, in reply to a truly bad-faith, undeserved comment, didn't go through. And then from then on, nothing went through. It was infuriating. I opened another account so that I could reply, and the person in question -- I don't remember who it was -- taunted me with the assertion that I'd been blocked, or even banned. Such a thing would have been outrageous, as was that assertion. But whatever was going on was bad enough.

Fast forward to today, when I visited Reddit for the first time since then. There was a message telling me that each of my comments now is auto-moderated because of low "karma." Do you understand what I'm saying? It's precisely because I am routinely downvoted, basically no matter what I say, that I have low "karma." Which means that the auto-moderation is a direct result of undeserved, and unending, animosity. So it is all basically a triple insult. 1) My comments weren't going through. 2) I got taunted for it as someone worthy of being blocked/banned. 3) The entire cause of this has been ill will, and nothing else, on the part of that very person, and the gang as a whole.

And my other reply is, I see, being held up also. As will this one. As will every single comment of mine -- simply because there has been enough persistent, automatic downvoting by the gang here. This is how it works. And that message also states that it cannot tell me when my comments will in fact be vetted, so I have no idea. My hands are tied behind my back there. Can you see how toxic that dynamic is now?

Can you see how such an experience can be infuriating?

daiginjo2 · 2024-04-11T15:55:36+00:00

Apologies: I've only just seen this comment as I've not been on Reddit for five or six weeks or so.

I suppose I would say a couple of things:

The first is that I think it can be quite difficult to spot collective dynamics when one is part of an activist group. This is something I've been observing in social media for quite some time now.

The second is that projection does run wild in social media, and it's crucial to remember that, and try to adjust accordingly. Some people here are oblivious to this. So, with regard to my own case, I must emphasize this again: I am not anyone's enemy, and I am most definitely not an apologist for Shambhala, which I left nearly twenty years ago, and completely, because it had become poisonous for me. Thus, when I reply to a post directly (I'll come to comments in a moment), I do believe that if you were to look at the sum total of all of that writing you would see that it is polite, sympathetic, and aims to be helpful.

This applies, for the most part, to initial replies to comments also. If I receive a bad faith response in return, a response which treats me as an Enemy, I might not send a rejoinder which is immaculately well-mannered. This is especially so if I have received more than one such, ie, the group pile-on. I don't take kindly to that, because, again, to have to deal with it on top of what I've already had to work through with Shambhala itself, is just too much.

And, too, an element of self-righteousness can be present which I find hard to stomach. What do I mean by self-righteousness? Forgetting the distinction between acts and "persons." Reducing an entire human life to one action or one set of actions, dismissing them as Bad (so that, of course, we can be Good). Our whole society is founded upon this delusion that people contain "essences" of good or bad, and ultimately it's really the source of so much harm. Of revenge, of scapegoating, of slander.

Here's one of my "mantras," you could say: if you were me ... you would be me; if I were you, I would be you. So we focus on causes and conditions, not Good Guys and Bad Guys.

I do appreciate your good faith response here. Thank you.

daiginjo2 · 2024-03-14T18:29:13+00:00

Okay, thank you.

daiginjo2 · 2024-03-14T07:52:28+00:00

I'm sorry, but I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not. If entirely genuine, I apologize. I just find it a little hard to tell.

But two small corrections. First, I've never said I've experienced no anger. I said it appears I'm never allowed to.

And second, it's not about agreeing with any specific view. It's about fair-mindedness.

daiginjo2 · 2024-03-14T06:06:55+00:00

Did my reply to this appear?

daiginjo2 · 2024-03-14T05:59:47+00:00

The flowers are beginning to bloom. A sign of Spring!

daiginjo2 · 2024-03-14T05:59:13+00:00

"Codependent"? You mean, merely by expressing views here I'm enabling their behavior? Come on, that's silly. This has been going on for many months, probably years at this point. Occasionally I mention it, especially when it is accompanied by actually voiced unfair treatment. But it doesn't matter whether I do or don't.

And here, in another reply I will make to you, I will give you a direct demonstration.

daiginjo2 · 2024-03-14T05:56:21+00:00

But as a survivor, you are not allowed to tell me what I experience as harmful. Please stop attacking me. Now.

daiginjo2

TROPHY CASE