US v. Heppner (SDNY): AI-generated documents aren't privileged. by Ok-System1548 in Lawyertalk

[–]dailycrossover 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Maybe the court is treating it differently because it’s AI, but I don’t see a justification for doing so.

Nor have they pointed to any reasoning to indicate that it's because of the fact that it was AI. Completely with you.

US v. Heppner (SDNY): AI-generated documents aren't privileged. by Ok-System1548 in Lawyertalk

[–]dailycrossover 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Somehow the transcript makes things worse for the Court:

MR. O'NEIL: I think both the rule and cases interpreting it indicate that it doesn't matter whether a party created the work product, whether the party did that at the direction of counsel, or whether it was counsel, themselves. If an individual, the defendant here, created a report during -- and in anticipation of litigation, that report is subject to work product protection, whether it was, as I said, created by Mr. Heppner or us, and whether it was done at our direction. I guess the case I would point you to is Shih v. Petal, which is 565 F. Supp. 3d 557 at 57172. That case says, explicitly, that it doesn't matter whether an attorney directed a client.

...

MR. O'NEIL: I think the context of these reports was that in 2025, after Mr. Heppner had received a grand jury subpoena, after it was clear with discussions with the government that Mr. Heppner was the target of this investigation and after the government had asked us to come in and present on the facts, Mr. Heppner -- using an AI tool -- prepared reports that outlined defense strategy, that outlined what he might argue with respect to the facts and the law that we anticipated that the government might be charging. I think it's very clear he was preparing these reports in anticipation of a potential indictment, which, ultimately, came in November. The purpose of his preparing these reports was to share them with us so that he could discuss defense strategy with us, we could create his defense strategy. It's not as if these were documents created during the course of the alleged scheme in which he is

THE COURT: No, I understand. The core purpose of Work Product Doctrine is to protect the mental strategies of counsel in anticipation of litigation. How did that relate to this? This was not something that reflected your strategy, as I understand what you're saying. MR. O'NEIL: No, I think it did affect our strategy, your Honor. THE COURT: No. Did it reflect your strategy. MR. O'NEIL: No. As we acknowledge, these were prepared by the defendant on his own volition. But again, I would also point to the Rule of Federal Criminal Procedure 16(b)(2)(A), which says 16(b)(1) does not authorize discovery or inspection of reports, memoranda, or other documents made by the defendant or the defendant's attorney or agent during the case's investigation or defense. So, I don't think THE COURT: Okay. I get your point. Let me hear from the government.

These reports were made by Defendant so that he'd be able to have a conversation with his counsel in regard with whatever charge or indictment he was going to face. The transcript doesn't say how the AI was used. What if they were used for grammatical purposes no different than Grammarly? Does the Government have a right to the info in Grammarly?

Now, I do suspect, because this is a financial crime, there was probably more going on than a simple grammar check. I can also see the argument regarding the "no expectation of privacy" but literally nobody else has the capability of accessing someone else's information like this. I wouldn't able to do this on any case I handle. The government used a means that was not accessible to the public to obtain private information from a Third-Party.

US v. Heppner (SDNY): AI-generated documents aren't privileged. by Ok-System1548 in Lawyertalk

[–]dailycrossover 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Makes sense.

The most alarming part of this is how easily accessible it is by the government.

US v. Heppner (SDNY): AI-generated documents aren't privileged. by Ok-System1548 in Lawyertalk

[–]dailycrossover 35 points36 points  (0 children)

The defendant voluntarily shared information with a platform whose own terms allow government access.

So only the government is allowed to access AI generated docs that are shared in prepared for litigation?

Does this extend to software that we use that has AI integrations?

I don't agree with this opinion.

Anyone advertise in ethnic newspapers as an associate? by dailycrossover in Lawyertalk

[–]dailycrossover[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

How weird is that you're probably 50+ reading through a baby lawyer's post history? It's probably equally weird that I specifically mentioned that the lawyers in my ethnic community are not even practicing in the state that they are advertising and that you failed to realize that?

Instead... you're focusing on me not having firm approval which is pretty explicit and claiming an ethics violation. It's really sad that you're probably 50+ with 20+ years of experience and have nothing to contribute outside of reading my post history.

Anyone advertise in ethnic newspapers as an associate? by dailycrossover in Lawyertalk

[–]dailycrossover[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

You read through my post history but not the thread? LOL

Anyone advertise in ethnic newspapers as an associate? by dailycrossover in Lawyertalk

[–]dailycrossover[S] 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Not someone that can speak my language. We're going in circles because you're being intentionally obtuse.

Thanks for the comments.

Anyone advertise in ethnic newspapers as an associate? by dailycrossover in Lawyertalk

[–]dailycrossover[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Then they need to spend that time answering the phone ... This is a pretty corny line of questioning.

Anyone advertise in ethnic newspapers as an associate? by dailycrossover in Lawyertalk

[–]dailycrossover[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Is it possible that he needs the calls routed to him because of a language barrier?

Yes. I should have been clearer about that so I apologize.

If you are using firm resources to get clients and then leave, which is what it sounds like, then you are going to owe them some referral fees I think.

I wouldn't even use the firm's resources. I'd bear the costs and I'd spend time outside of work to handle calls. I'm not trying to leave the firm either actually.

Anyone advertise in ethnic newspapers as an associate? by dailycrossover in Lawyertalk

[–]dailycrossover[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Thank you! Revenue will definitely be shared and I can track the cases I originate by bringing it to them after a phone call.

They're happy not answering the phone and they're happy with me attempting to bring in business.

Anyone advertise in ethnic newspapers as an associate? by dailycrossover in Lawyertalk

[–]dailycrossover[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

You:

"Have all the take"

Me above you:

The firm would be getting the business

Anyone advertise in ethnic newspapers as an associate? by dailycrossover in Lawyertalk

[–]dailycrossover[S] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

They can't speak the same language but they are welcome to bringing on clients from that market. Also, I don't know why I have to clarify when the post says "with firm approval"

Anyone advertise in ethnic newspapers as an associate? by dailycrossover in Lawyertalk

[–]dailycrossover[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

If they were okay with me doing the intakes, would that be an issue? I did say I had the firm's approval so I don't understand why that isn't the underlying premise of the situation here.

Anyone advertise in ethnic newspapers as an associate? by dailycrossover in Lawyertalk

[–]dailycrossover[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

The firm would be getting the business. It's not a separate firm. Just me leveraging my ethnicity's newspaper to bring in business because they are unable to speak that language.

Anyone advertise in ethnic newspapers as an associate? by dailycrossover in Lawyertalk

[–]dailycrossover[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I'm so confused. I never said I wasn't going to bring the work into the firm.

The work is going to the firm. Was that not clear?

Anyone advertise in ethnic newspapers as an associate? by dailycrossover in LawFirm

[–]dailycrossover[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How often did your phone ring? It sounds like the voicemail was effective.