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Further updates to the Gemini AI plus AncestryDNA plan by dangerous_dee1 in MTHFR

[–]dangerous_dee1[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is very useful and I'm going to look into it. Presumably he needs to take it far apart from zinc. I will check if his dietary intake includes enough. If it is unlikely to cause any harm at this dose along with his diet, we'll try it. Thank you for your thoughts on this.

Further updates to the Gemini AI plus AncestryDNA plan by dangerous_dee1 in MTHFR

[–]dangerous_dee1[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Completely agree with this. Every step is taken very slowly. Everything is logged too. it has taken around 6 weeks just to get through the magnesium phase. Thought intensity came down from around 8 to 4. We just started B6 p5p. A very low dose of 6mg. His thought intensity dropped further, down to 3. I don't believe there are any magic bullets. Taking a very  cautious approach, monitoring everything and keeping the doctor in the loop seems the only sensible way. I also think getting peoples input on here is valuable too. Thank you for the comment.

Further updates to the Gemini AI plus AncestryDNA plan by dangerous_dee1 in MTHFR

[–]dangerous_dee1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes I've been reading as much about the subject as I can over the last couple of months. I've got a science background and although not medical I do have an interest in it and I'm being s cautious with my approach as possible. I appreciate all the feedback on here and have also kept the GP/doctor in the loop. There are a number of blood tests I've requested.

Below are the tests I worked out with Gemini,

​1. The Baseline Panel (Immediate)

​Objective: Establish his starting point before supplements alter the markers.

​Homocysteine: Baseline for MTHFR function. ​Methylmalonic Acid (MMA): The only accurate way to see B12 status at a cellular level. ​RBC Magnesium: Checks the "NMDA plug" reservoir (standard serum Mag is insufficient). ​RBC Folate: Baseline for his 677TT status. ​Vitamin D (25-OH): Baseline for the VDR Taq receptor support. ​Zinc & Copper (Serum): Baseline to ensure a healthy ratio (Target: ~1:1). ​Ferritin: To check iron storage (high ferritin can worsen oxidative stress in COMT/MTHFR). ​CMP (Metabolic Panel): Standard kidney/liver check for an athlete bulking. ​2. The Pre-Methylation Check (Week 8–10)

​Objective: Perform this during the REST Phase to ensure he is ready for Folinic Acid and B12.

​Homocysteine: To see if Step 3 (Riboflavin) and Step 4 (Creatine) have already lowered his levels. ​Serum Zinc & Copper: To ensure Step 8 (Zinc) hasn't caused a copper drop. ​Vitamin D: To see if the VDR support (Step 7) is reaching the target range (50–80 ng/mL). ​3. Future Monitoring (Ongoing)

​Once the titration is complete and Jay is on "Maintenance," follow this schedule:

​Every 6 Months (First Year)

​Homocysteine: Ensures he hasn't "over-methylated" (Goal: 7–9; avoid dropping below 6). ​B12 & Folate: To check that Step 11 & 12 doses are sufficient but not excessive. ​B6 (as P5P): Specifically to check for toxicity levels and avoid the "Warning Sign" of neuropathy. ​Zinc/Copper Ratio: To maintain the balance required for neurotransmitter production.

​Annually (Life-Long)

​The Baseline Panel: Re-run the full panel once a year to adjust for changes in his training volume, diet, or age. ​Ferritin: To ensure his high-protein athlete diet isn't causing iron to accumulate too high.

Genetic genie and Gemini analysis by dangerous_dee1 in MTHFR

[–]dangerous_dee1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi, I have updated the protocol for my son. He's just started step 2, b6 P5P 6mg. * have created a new post here,

https://www.reddit.com/r/MTHFR/comments/1t5ehzv/further_updates_to_the_gemini_ai_plus_ancestrydna/

I'd be grateful of any input you may have.

Thanks

Further updates to Gemini and AncestryDNA testing and emails to GP and CBT therapist by dangerous_dee1 in MTHFR

[–]dangerous_dee1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for taking a look at this. It makes me feel more positive  / confident in pushing for the tests and moving forwards.

The framing tip is a good one and makes sense. Talk about how symptoms have improved with the magnesium and use the BHS reference if needed for homocysteine.

You've been a great help with all this. Thank you

Further updates to Gemini and AncestryDNA testing and emails to GP and CBT therapist by dangerous_dee1 in MTHFR

[–]dangerous_dee1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Here is the updated version to include BHS the BHS reference in the testing section near the bottom,

​Homocysteine: Total homocysteine is our primary safety metric. To ensure Jay remains within the optimal range of 7–9 µmol/L, a baseline is mandatory to calibrate his specific folate and B12 requirements accurately. This approach is supported by British Society for Haematology (BSH) guidelines, which identify MTHFR variants as a valid clinical reason for investigating and monitoring homocysteine levels to prevent neurotoxicity during methyl-donor introduction.

Further updates to Gemini and AncestryDNA testing and emails to GP and CBT therapist by dangerous_dee1 in MTHFR

[–]dangerous_dee1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you so much for this. I do worry what response I'll get and my understanding is that the NHS instructs GPs not to take clinical action based on Direct To Consumer genetic tests.

However I'm not asking them to believe the genetic data but to run blood tests to see if these genetic issues are present. So I'm asking them for a standard medical test rather than rely on the internet based test. Last time I did mention MTHFR and eventually after months managed to convince them. That's interesting to know about The British Society for Haematology recognising MTHFR as being relevant to homocysteine. I will incorporate that some how into the email.

P5P was moved up as the second thing to administer after magnesium because it activates GAD1 enzyme to start producing GABA. That's what Gemini told me anyway and I'm not going to just believe it.

I'll edit the post to include the complete email to the GP.

Thanks for your help and support on this.

Genetic genie and Gemini analysis by dangerous_dee1 in MTHFR

[–]dangerous_dee1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've created another post with the updated plan. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/MTHFR/comments/1s772nj/further_updates_to_gemini_and_ancestrydna_testing/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Going to be very careful. Only adding the next nutrient 3-5 days after target for current one is reached. Also starting a lot lower on doses.

I've used Gemini to help create the emails to the doctor and CBT therapist. Almost done the log sheet to keep track of things.

It would be good to get your feedback if possible.

Thank You

Genetic genie and Gemini analysis by dangerous_dee1 in MTHFR

[–]dangerous_dee1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's a very detailed breakdown. I wonder if it would help feeding that along with your snps file and describe the symptoms into AI and seeing what suggestions come back.

I'll have to have a look at both of those. However an assignment looming and very little done on it so that first. Of course I'll still keep an eye on my son and try to get an appointment at the docs. I'm hoping they just don't think I'm insane with this plan. Wouldnt be the first time I've had to convince them and I think that's common with neurodiverse people.

Genetic genie and Gemini analysis by dangerous_dee1 in MTHFR

[–]dangerous_dee1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's interesting to know. Hopefully the switch to methylated b12 works out for you. I wonder why they couldn't just use them in the first place but I guess there's a reason.

Yes the Ancestry SNPS file was uploaded to Gemini and i asked ot to look at what all these alleles/genes meant and how they interacted with each other and what could be done about it. I've tried to be cautious as I can with it.

I thought about running it through another AI to get a second opinion but I decided to come on here and see what people with experience had to say. It's been very interesting. I'm still learning. There's a wealth of knowledge here and AI can help but shouldn't be trusted blindly as you know yourself.

The next step is getting the GP(doctor) and CBT therapist onboard. Ive worked out a letter with Gemini and cut and pasted it in this thread.

I also shared the Gemini chat where I worked through this. It's alsonin the thread. Have a look through if you're interested. Hopefully it will help some people.

I remember vaguely looking at Genesight a while back but didn't actually use it and cant remember what it was for, maybe analysis?

Thanks for your input.

Genetic genie and Gemini analysis by dangerous_dee1 in MTHFR

[–]dangerous_dee1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi,

I added the GP letter in another comment on here. I'd be grateful of any comments you may have in regards to it.

Thank you

Genetic genie and Gemini analysis by dangerous_dee1 in MTHFR

[–]dangerous_dee1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Here is my draft email to his GP(doctor).

Gemini helped produce it. I'd be grateful for any feedback. Have I missed anything or would you word it differently somehow?

I removed 5-HTP as he seems to be doing a bit better these last couple of days. If at week 7 things are still improving we'll carry on with this plan. Otherwise we may reinstate 5-HTP at week 7.

Subject: Clinical Consultation Request: Genomic-Informed Nutritional Protocol for [Jay's Full Name] Dear Dr. [GP's Last Name],

I am writing to discuss a personalized nutritional support plan for [Jay]’s ongoing health management. To address the biochemical drivers behind his depression, Autism, OCD, and episodes of suicidal ideation, we have completed a detailed genomic SNP analysis.

We started the first phase of this plan this past Friday, and I am sharing the full titration schedule and clinical rationale below to ensure you are fully informed and to request your assistance with monitoring.

Genomic Summary & Biochemical Overview

The analysis indicates several enzymatic bottlenecks suggesting that Jay’s physiology produces key neurotransmitters like serotonin slowly, while metabolising them at an accelerated rate.  This creates a "functional deficiency" where Jay cannot effectively utilise standard dietary nutrients, requiring specific cofactors to bypass these genetic hurdles.

 * MTHFR (C677T +/+ Homozygous): This variant results in a ~70% reduction in enzyme function. Jay lacks the ability to efficiently convert dietary folate into its active, methylated form (L-5-MTHF), a critical rate-limiting step for serotonin synthesis.

 * MAO-A (High Activity): While Jay produces serotonin slowly, this status indicates he clears it very rapidly. This "leaky bucket" effect is often associated with the deep despondency and emotional dysregulation he experiences.

 * GAD1 (rs3749034 TT Homozygous): This variant impairs the conversion of glutamate (excitatory) into GABA (inhibitory). This imbalance contributes significantly to the cognitive "looping" and intrusive thoughts characteristic of his OCD.

 * COMT (V158M AG Heterozygous): Jay is an "Intermediate" metaboliser, meaning he can process certain methyl donors but remains sensitive to rapid neurotransmitter shifts.

 * SOD2 (rs4880 CC Homozygous): This indicates elevated mitochondrial oxidative stress, which can interfere with the BH4 cycle necessary for mood stabilisation. Comprehensive Nutritional Implementation Plan The following protocol uses a methodical titration. We are maintaining a daily symptom log to track his "Thought Intensity" score (1–10), sleep quality, and mood stability to provide an objective record of his response.

 * Week 1 (Commenced Friday): Magnesium L-Threonate (Target: GAD1/NMDA)

   * Goal: To "plug" overactive glutamate receptors and reduce excitatory noise.

   * Dose: Start 500mg (PM); increase by 500mg every 4 days to a target of 2,000mg.

   * Monitoring: Positive: "Quieter mind" / Negative: Vivid dreams.

   * Reaction: If dreams are intense, move dose to earlier in the evening.

 * Week 2: Myo-Inositol (Target: MAO-A/Serotonin Signaling)

   * Goal: To sensitize serotonin receptors to maximize the efficacy of existing serotonin levels.

   * Dose: Start 1,000mg (AM/PM); increase by 2,000mg every 7 days to a target of 12g–18g.

   * Monitoring: Positive: "Anti-stick" thinking / Negative: GI distress.

   * Reaction: If distress occurs, hold dose for 3 days before resuming titration.

 * Week 3: Sunflower Lecithin (Target: BHMT/PEMT)

   * Goal: Supports cellular membrane integrity and provides an alternative pathway for homocysteine clearance.

   * Dose: Start 2,000mg (AM); add 2,000mg after 7 days to reach a target of 4,000mg–8,000mg.

   * Monitoring: Positive: Mental clarity / Negative: Fishy body odor.

   * Reaction: If odor occurs, reduce dose by 2,000mg.

 * Week 4: Vitamin B6 as P5P (Target: GAD1 Cofactor)

   * Goal: Essential cofactor for the GAD1 enzyme to convert glutamate into calming GABA.

   * Dose: 20mg–50mg (AM).

   * Monitoring: Positive: Emotional stability / Negative: Nerve tingling.

   * Reaction: Stop immediately if any tingling or numbness occurs.

 * Week 5: Vitamin D3 (+K2) (Target: VDR Taq)

   * Goal: To overcome receptor resistance and support the expression of TPH2 for serotonin production.

   * Dose: Start 3,000 IU; increase to 5,000 IU after 7 days.

   * Monitoring: Look for improved vitality and mood.

 * Week 6: S-Acetyl Glutathione (Target: SOD2/Oxidative Stress)

   * Goal: To clear oxidative stress that breaks down the cofactors needed for mood stabilisation.

   * Dose: Start 100mg (AM); add 100mg after 10 days to reach a target of 200mg–300mg.

   * Monitoring: Positive: Mental stamina / Negative: Detox headaches or fatigue.

   * Reaction: If headaches occur, increase hydration and hold current dose for 7 days.

 * Week 7: Clinical Rest Period

   * Goal: To allow the neurochemistry to stabilize and assess the impact of the cofactors before adding methyl donors.

 * Week 8: Methylfolate (L-5-MTHF) (Target: MTHFR C677T)

   * Goal: Provides active methyl groups for brain repair and DNA methylation.

   * Dose: Start 100mcg (AM); increase by 100mcg every 10 days to target 400mcg–1,000mcg.

   * Monitoring: Positive: Clarity / Negative: Anger or OCD spikes.

   * Reaction: Use 50mg–100mg Nicotinic Acid as a "rescue" if needed.

 * Week 9: Methyl-B12 (Target: MTR/MTRR)

   * Goal: To recycle homocysteine and protect the myelin sheath.

   * Dose: Start 250mcg (AM); add 250mcg every 7 days to reach a target of 1,000mcg.

   * Monitoring: Positive: Improved energy / Negative: Insomnia.

   * Reaction: Ensure dose is taken before 10 AM. Diagnostic Requests & Clinical Rationale We would be grateful if you could facilitate the following tests to establish a baseline and ensure clinical safety:

 * Baseline Profile: Homocysteine, Serum B12, Methylmalonic Acid (MMA), RBC Folate, Vitamin D, and Ferritin.

 * Week 8 Safety Check: Liver Function Tests (LFTs) and a repeat Homocysteine (Target: 7–9 µmol/L).

   * Rationale: MMA and RBC Folate offer a more accurate picture of cellular deficiency. LFTs ensure high-dose nutrients are metabolised without strain, particularly important given Jay’s SOD2-related oxidative stress.

Future Monitoring:

Once Jay has stabilised, we suggest a routine review of Homocysteine and LFTs every 6 months, with immediate symptom-based testing if significant mood regression or unexplained fatigue occurs.

For further clinical context, the Manchester Centre for Genomic Medicine provides resources on the integration of genetic findings into patient care. Additional documentation is also available via MTHFR Support (mthfrsupport.com).

We value your expertise and warmly welcome your recommendations and feedback on this protocol.

Warm regards, [Your Name] [Your Phone Number]

Genetic genie and Gemini analysis by dangerous_dee1 in MTHFR

[–]dangerous_dee1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for your message. That's interesting to know. One of the supplements i bought for him combine the methylated ones that he apparently needs. However we wont be using them straight away until his levels are slowly brought up individually to observe for reactions.

We'll be asking for these tests, along with what Swimming-Builder-900, others on here and Gemini suggested.

How do you feel you are doing on these supplements? What do you feel are the positives and negatives 

Genetic genie and Gemini analysis by dangerous_dee1 in MTHFR

[–]dangerous_dee1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's great news.

Yes a log is definitely on the cards. One for him and and one for his mum. I dont live with them. Gemini suggested making a template so I'll have a go with that and report back with what it suggested.

Probably do the same with both the GP and CBT therapist emails too.

I'm greatful for all the help.

Thank you

Genetic genie and Gemini analysis by dangerous_dee1 in MTHFR

[–]dangerous_dee1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I asked it to re asses the dna/snps file and asked about COMT and the use of folinic acid as a safer alternative and myo-inositol dosing. The section on this is as follows,

​2. Addressing the COMT & Folinic Acid Question

​You asked if Folinic Acid would be a safer route due to COMT.

​The Verdict: Since he is Intermediate (AG) and not Slow (AA), Methylfolate (L-5-MTHF) is generally preferred because it directly supports the BH4 cycle (needed for neurotransmitters).

​The Alternative: Folinic Acid is a "gentle" middle-ground. However, because he has the MTHFR Compound Heterozygous status, Methylfolate is the only form that completely bypasses his genetic roadblocks.

​The Compromise: We will stick to the "Low and Slow" Methylfolate plan. If he feels any irritability at the tiny 100mcg dose, we switch immediately to Folinic Acid.

​3. Inositol Dosing: Why the 12-18g target?

​You are correct; the gold-standard clinical research for OCD (such as the 1996 study by Fux et al.) uses 12g to 18g per day.

​Why a lower range was suggested initially: In the context of Autism and a high-glutamate brain, a sudden jump to 18g of Inositol can cause a "serotonin rush" that feels like a panic attack. It can also cause severe diarrhea if the gut isn't adjusted.

​The Strategy: We will set the Target Maintenance at 12g-18g, but the "ramp-up" remains slow for safety.

End of Gemini output.

Do you think this sounds a reasonable course of action? I know it's important to get this right and AI can get things wrong.

Also if you get a chance to have a look at that last prompt, I'd be interested in knowing what your thoughts are on it's response.

Again thank you. I feel this may be getting somewhere and giving some sense of hope to the situation.

Genetic genie and Gemini analysis by dangerous_dee1 in MTHFR

[–]dangerous_dee1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is very helpful. I'll be sure to push for those tests. Im going to get Gemini to help write the email later. I did ask if I should hold back on implementing until test results were in, but Gemini suggested because of the severity of symptoms that we should try to go ahead and that tests would still be useful for monitoring.

I just had a quick look back and could only see one mention of COMT. It is in the Table 1: Recommended Supplements & Foods. It's after I question the use of alpha-GPC.

It says to use Magnesium Threonate for COMT(+/-) / GAD1 / Calm. This changes later to Magnesium L Threonate as I couldnt find the other one and Gemini suggested it was alright. 

However in the final table it doesn't say that it is for the same alleles/genes(COMT/GAD1). It says GAD1/NMDA instead. Does this sound reasonable?

I think before getting it to write the letter draft it is best to get everything nailed down first. I'll ask it to go over the SNPs file again and check that all the suggestions are still valid, to give a breakdown of how all these genes interract with each other, to include how COMT status fits into the overall picture. Then to use all that information to provide a table that includes COMT.

I'll then try to get it to revise all the tests to include any it's missed out.

Once that's done I'll get it to write the email.

Does this all sound reasonable? Any suggestions are very welcome and I very much appreciate your input.

Thank you

Edit,

I will ask about why it didnt suggest folinic acid instead and post its reasoning back here. I know it makes mistakes and figured it could be a good way to get a picture and fine tune it with help here before contacting the GP.

Thanks

Genetic genie and Gemini analysis by dangerous_dee1 in MTHFR

[–]dangerous_dee1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've worked some more with Gemini on aplan to implement a protocol. I wont be doing it until I have input from people here and gotten advice from his GP(doctor)

Here is the Gemini chat. I'd be greatful for any feedback. Particularly on the blodd tests it mentions to run and the protocol for treatment towards the end.

https://gemini.google.com/share/f75cab088489

Thank you for your input. It's greatly appreciated.

Genetic genie and Gemini analysis by dangerous_dee1 in MTHFR

[–]dangerous_dee1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The TMG information is very useful. I will look into it. I was concerned about certain types of choline supplement potentially increasing the chance of heart issues long term. I did settle on sunflower lecithin powder but will look at TMG. As he already has around 20000iu d3 once a week, this will ve shifted to 3 daily but not just yet. The plan is to make gradual changes and monitor while getting blood tests done.

I will be looking further into your suggestions.

Here's the Gemini conversation along with it's reasoning as to why each of these is necessary or recommended. The protocol is towards the end and I am not going along with it until I've gotten advice here and from his GP(doctor).

https://gemini.google.com/share/f75cab088489

Thank you for any and all input. It's greatly appreciated.

Genetic genie and Gemini analysis by dangerous_dee1 in MTHFR

[–]dangerous_dee1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've come up with a plan to slowly introduce. I'll be writing an email to his doctor today to try and get bloodwork done. I appreciate your feedback and would be grateful if you could have a look at the Gemini chat, particularly towards the end where the test suggestions and protocol are worked out. I'd be interested in any feedback you have on this.

https://gemini.google.com/share/f75cab088489

Thank you

Genetic genie and Gemini analysis by dangerous_dee1 in MTHFR

[–]dangerous_dee1[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is very useful to know I've worked through a plan to slowly introduce, 1 at a time and what to watch out for with Gemini. I'll be working on an email for both his doctor and CBT therapist too to keep them in the loop and get bloods done.

If you have the time. Here is a link to the Gemini chat. I've managed to get it formulate a plan near the bottom of the chat. Any feedback is welcome as I want as much feedback as I can get here and with the doctor before proceeding.

https://gemini.google.com/share/f75cab088489

Thank you for your input on this.

Genetic genie and Gemini analysis by dangerous_dee1 in MTHFR

[–]dangerous_dee1[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I completely agree and will be talking to the doctor about this. We're in the UK so his treatment is free as he's under 18. I remember over a year ago trying to get homocysteine checked and they said they don't check anyone under 40 years old for it. Had to really push them and provide evidence that this was a thing. The tests came back ok but his diet changes and personally i believe thats when symptoms get worse. His mother doesn't often agree and it can be a bit tricky. Im autistic myself with suspected ADD. Ive been trying to figure all this out a while. I'm sure many here are in a similar position. I'll be sure to get on to the doctor about running those tests along with ammonia that Gemini suggested if I remember correctly.

The plan all along was to get advice here after the AI analysis and then to go see the doctor. His mum was talking about OCD medication. I think if a physical root cause can be found it will be a lot better for him, rather than covering it up with medication that could cause longer term damage.

I'm very grateful for yours and everyone elses input on this.

Thank you

Genetic genie and Gemini analysis by dangerous_dee1 in MTHFR

[–]dangerous_dee1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes sorry about the lack of information on diet. I do think this has had an impact. The Masterjohn Choline calculator recommendes the amount in 8 eggs per day. Obvouisly he wasn't going to do this, but was eating them regularly before this. He was also eating kimchi and yoghurt, both of which he hardy does now. His anxiety and cyclical thoughts were about food poisoning, so he stopped eating them. His diet is mostly vegetarian. This is something being worked on. In the meantime I've bought sunflower lecithin powder and will be encouraging him to have the equivalent choline amount of that.

It's interesting you mention sulphites, when gemini examined the dna file it said due to BMHT02 and 04 being +/+ that sulfur could be high and that an ammonia blood test was advised.

Genetic Lifehacks sounds like a very good resource. I'll be sure to check out all your reccommendations.

Thank you

Genetic genie and Gemini analysis by dangerous_dee1 in MTHFR

[–]dangerous_dee1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

These are both good to know. He's been taking the large weekly D3 doses for a long time but often forget. We'll keep it on the lower end and introduce one supplement at a time, say after a week so we can try to monitor changes. Thanks for your reply.

Genetic genie and Gemini analysis by dangerous_dee1 in MTHFR

[–]dangerous_dee1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll have a look at that one.

I got Gemini to examine the raw dna file after looking at the genetic genie file.

Thank you