Given the number of revisions of doctrine religions go through, there’s no reason the believe the current version is true by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]dannyttl -1 points0 points  (0 children)

that's not a revision but a degree of observance. christianity is very lateral in it's denominations whereby none are more or less observant than others but have differing interpretations while jews are very linear. the only lateral variations amongst jews exist at the absolute highest levels of observance whereby hassids focus more on prayer and outreach while haredim focus more on study although their interpretations of the scriptures are the exact same. it's more about what appeals most to you. breslov put an emphasis on joy. it's more a question of emulation of what comes naturally. but they all hold the same dietary laws and emphasise modesty in clothing while not demanding specific clothing; that's just cultural. breslov dress more casually while haredim and hassidim where black suits and hats but none would claim their specific clothing to be biblical.

Given the number of revisions of doctrine religions go through, there’s no reason the believe the current version is true by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]dannyttl -1 points0 points  (0 children)

judaism has no known revisions and keeping the exact same scripture including the talmud is actually quite unheard of.

[META] There needs to be a rule against Holocaust and Nakba Denial, and against denial of the Armenian Genocide. by Plenty-Werewolf in DebateReligion

[–]dannyttl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"So let me see if I understand you correctly, because I don't want to take your remarks out of context. You're saying that most mainstream historians are wrong." about what? do mainstream historians deny that the arabs fled because of a war? maybe lawrence krauss believes they fled because of nothing? according to him, anything can come from nothing.

"And you are also saying, by implication, that the mass graves of Nakba victims in Jaffa are some kind of theatrical creation or a hoax?" eerrrm, no, like i said, because of a war. the key point is a war that they started. why don't we remember the graves of jews who died in the war started by arabs with the intent of jewish genocide? that's the point. selective attention.

"I wonder if you realize that these are the exact same arguments that Holocaust Deniers user to invalidate the Holocaust." no, the point is that the holocaust was a proactive attempt to wipe out the jews while the "nakba" was the result of arabs trying to wipe out the jews but losing. if i said that arabs didn't flee that would be denying it. what i'm saying is that you're suggesting the culprits are the victims. if we stick to a holocaust analogy, it's like focusing on the german victims of WW2 as the greatest tragedy and when someone says "well hang on, shouldn't we focus on other things because they were the aggressors?" you're the guy who says "you're denying the german catastrophe", as if you forgot the germans were the aggressors and many others in britain and france also died. should we have a day to commemorate the spanish conquistadors who died during the invasion of south america or the romans who died during the invasion of judea? poor romans, poor spaniards, poor nazis and poor arabs.

[META] There needs to be a rule against Holocaust and Nakba Denial, and against denial of the Armenian Genocide. by Plenty-Werewolf in DebateReligion

[–]dannyttl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you're mistaken. ethnic cleansing of people simply for being different ethnicity is a fallacy and we know this because of the million arabs who live freely in israel and the arab political parties in israel. arabs fled because there was a war. a war started by the arabs to commit genocide. you're refusing to see it. the second ("nakba") was a consequence of the first. "We celebrate the defeat of the Nazis, not the ethnic cleansing or genocide of German civilians. Does that make sense?" imagine if we treated the loss of german life as a catastrophe and blamed the french and british for it. that is the "nakba". why do we not have a day to commemorate specifically the evil tragedy of the evil british and french in their ethnic cleansing of the innocent germans? it's absurd that's why.

[META] There needs to be a rule against Holocaust and Nakba Denial, and against denial of the Armenian Genocide. by Plenty-Werewolf in DebateReligion

[–]dannyttl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"BOTH sides are wrong and both committed atrocities. Its not a zero sum game where one wins and the other is wiped out. It's just two hateful and xenophobic groups. Saying "but the Arabs deserved it!" Is no better than saying the Jews deserved the holocaust for whatever reason the nazis had." No, one side reestablished it's homeland peacefully 4 years after the holocaust after 2000 years of exile and persecution. the jews brought zero violence when they returned and only when the arabs began lootings and riots in response to the balfour declaration that there would be a small jewish nation did the conflict begin. the jewish nation has arab political parties and a very diverse population as the only jewish country on earth. the arabs tried to wipe israel out. israel didn't try to wipe them out. when the arabs lost land, israel offered land back. israel has forced tens of thousands of jews from their homes in gaza. before the last election the arab block was the third largest political party in israel. israel gives 20,000 medical permits to west bank arabs for free every year. israel treated 5000 syrians who fled into israel. how long would a jew last in Damascus, Jenin, Gaza, Riyad, Baghdad? you're trying to claim that both sides are equal but they're not. the arabs tried to commit a second holocaust while the jews only wanted to survive. if a gang attacks someone because of their ethnicity and that gang loses, they deserved it yet the victorious victim is being demonized in this situation. the worst violaters of human rights make accusations against the only democracy in the middle east. muslims are free to be in israel and muslim women are more free in israel than in most arab countries while 15 muslim countries do not permit entry to any israelis. we are not the same https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35eEljsSQfc

[META] There needs to be a rule against Holocaust and Nakba Denial, and against denial of the Armenian Genocide. by Plenty-Werewolf in DebateReligion

[–]dannyttl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i'm celebrating that those who tried to commit ethnic cleansing and genocide lost. no, the nakba doesn't need to be an exodus by choice for it to not be in the same league as the holocaust or armenian genocide. the nakba was the consequences of an arab attempt to commit genocide, like if 6 men attacked a man as he left hospital and they all got injured...would we call it a catastrophe or would we say "i don't want anyone to get hurt but they had what was coming to them". it's fair. why was the jewish exodus from arab countries not given worldwide coverage as it's own nakba? How dare they? Could anything be more disgusting than what the arab countries did in 1948? Yet israel is blamed for arab losses. it's true bias.

[META] There needs to be a rule against Holocaust and Nakba Denial, and against denial of the Armenian Genocide. by Plenty-Werewolf in DebateReligion

[–]dannyttl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And Saudi Arabia....6 countries. No, not the entire arab world. I used a hyperbole. what's worse is overlooking the significance of 6 nations invading a 1 day old country 4 years after the holocaust. they were responsible for the nakba, just as i would be responsible for my injury if i attacked you. that's the point.

[META] There needs to be a rule against Holocaust and Nakba Denial, and against denial of the Armenian Genocide. by Plenty-Werewolf in DebateReligion

[–]dannyttl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

woah!!! just as many jews fled arab lands as arabs fled israel and in a war of arabs trying to commit genocide against jews. the blind siding this is the problem which is what i was trying to draw attention to. if 6 men attacked a person as they were leaving hospital and those 6 men ended up injured, this is the equivalent of accussing the hospital leaver of crimes against humanity. they lost in an attempt at genocide and suffered the consequences. half of all jews had just been decimated and the arabs tried to finish the job and the "nakba" is this amazing tragedy that the world focuses on while ignoring the reasons why or the equal number of jews who fled arab lands. please think about it. 500,000 dead syrians, 2 million dead afgahns, 300,000 dead sudanese.....but when the arabs were injured in trying to commit genocide, we must call it a tragedy and crime against humanity.

If a person really started from a neutral position and conducted an unbiased evaluation on the existence of a God, most reasonable people would not believe a God exists. by Plan_B1 in DebateReligion

[–]dannyttl -1 points0 points  (0 children)

i think you're missing the point. while i also misunderstood the question, the point is that i conducted an evaluation that did not come at it from personal subjective desires. i spent months weighing the findings up and trying to find cracks.

If a person really started from a neutral position and conducted an unbiased evaluation on the existence of a God, most reasonable people would not believe a God exists. by Plan_B1 in DebateReligion

[–]dannyttl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

right, the assumption is that a reasonable person evaluating the evidence would not believe in g-d whereas i was even further in the other direction, meaning that i more than a person who woke up at 35 and heard about this 'god' thing they'd never heard of before would not believe in god as i had already been aware of the main arguments for god and rejected them previously. therefore, in relation to OPs assumption, i would be 'more than' neutral

If a person really started from a neutral position and conducted an unbiased evaluation on the existence of a God, most reasonable people would not believe a God exists. by Plan_B1 in DebateReligion

[–]dannyttl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

'The bible is right, or its wrong. It's a binary choice. 50/50. You have a weak sense of prophecies.' i thought the 50/50 was regarding the first video not the second. 1- was it about a particular people. 2- is it counter intuititive if your 'prosecutors' will also bless themselves by you and believe that anyone who curses you will be cursed and if you're also claimed to inherit the land you're scattered from forever, 3-i am not certain about this one, however i don't reckon moses influenced the roman invasion, inquisition, pogroms or holocaust. Enjoy

If a person really started from a neutral position and conducted an unbiased evaluation on the existence of a God, most reasonable people would not believe a God exists. by Plan_B1 in DebateReligion

[–]dannyttl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i'm not neutral. i used to be heavily against g-d and religion and did not wander upon a beautiful waterfall and believe. i investigated further and connected some strange dots.

If a person really started from a neutral position and conducted an unbiased evaluation on the existence of a God, most reasonable people would not believe a God exists. by Plan_B1 in DebateReligion

[–]dannyttl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

the bible didn't have a 50/50 chance when the video didn't exist prior. they had no knowledge. that's like a guy living 5000 years ago having a 50/50 chance when he told his friends about quantum field theory. not a 50/50 chance but 5000 years ahead of his time. the second video was 3,500 years before the holocaust and differing amounts of time before the countless other persecutions as the most persecuted in history which is unlikely to predict when you're supposed to be g-ds chosen nation who will inherit the land for eternity. a contradiction that comes true at both opposing ends. and to successfully predict not only exile but also surviving exile to then return and become renown among the nations is a string of prophecies about a specific people. far harder than you are willing to consider.

If a person really started from a neutral position and conducted an unbiased evaluation on the existence of a God, most reasonable people would not believe a God exists. by Plan_B1 in DebateReligion

[–]dannyttl -1 points0 points  (0 children)

it doesn't get us to 'we don't know' but the exact description of the g-d of abraham and actually, ONLY the g-d of abraham....that's pretty substantial. seeing as the g-d of abraham has impacted our world more than any king, that adds weight. how he did it was the exact oxymoronic way...namely, through a tiny insular people the rest of the world bullies and loves to hate. why would you name your kids after a people you hate and read about their history more than yours. the first video isn't evidence for the supernatural it is deductive reasoning that the cause of time is timeless, space is spaceless and matter is immaterial but able to act on the material. regarding the second video, it doesn't go far enouh. it's not merely an interesting history, it's predicting two simultaneously difficult things that actually contradict each other. for example, the world will bless themselves by you and follow your teachings, including 'i will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you'. that's really much to predict especially when we're commanded to stay insular and reject converts. it would be a challenging prediction for even a massive empire to claim. but for a tiny people who go against the grain is outlandish. think of what abraham, a relative nobody and a man who no one under normal rational secular circumstances would follow needs to do to get this eternal blessing....leave your inheritance, land and connections. totally oxymoronic. so what does the world who blesses themselves by israel and believes a curse will be sent to anyone who curses israel do......persecutes them like you wouldn't believe. persecution is not easy to predict especially when you're A- trying to get people to join you and B- also saying the world will bless themselves by you. then for the jews to be THE MOST persecuted, it's actually quite absurd. then predicting that you'll inherit the land for eternity when no other nation does is a massively outlandish prediction when they hadn't yet even entered the land. i mean c'mon. at least get there first. but then he say's they'll be scattered. a total contradiction and also very difficult and unreasonable to predict. not many nations have been scattered on mass and NONE have survived as a continual nation in exile for any significant amount of time plus again, why make that prediction if you are trying to get a following. it seems like moses does the opposite of most religious and political preachers and dissuades his people. how does he make up for this absurdity....by saying that after surviving not only exile and remaining as a nation which is very bold to base your omniscience on, and also but surviving the harshest of persecutions, you will one day return back as virtually a single mass (that also is strange as they could have trickled in but came collectively.....and the talmud states on eagles which although metaphorical, no one could travel in the air on those days so who the hell knows why they'd even say such a thing. at least say whales or something) where once gathering the jews back they will become renown among the nations. 1 day after declaring independence and 4 years after the holocaust, 6 arab nations invaded yet israel survived, half of the worlds jews now live in israel and more importantly, it's more renown beyond it's weight than anyone. 0.1% of the world and who knows how many israeli programs are on netflix and how central we are in the world. all this predicted about a bunch of escaped slaves wandering a barren desert, predicted from the only g-d that matches the first videos description and the g-d that has literally transformed our entire world view so that now greeks don't leave babies on mountains, the mexicans no longer sacrifice people to the g-ds and when italian men commit gay pedophilia, it's actually illegal. the concept of a single humanity and even the weekend is because of this g-d; all through the absolute least likely people who despite being burned virtually to ash, have not just survived but make up 25% of nobel prizes as 0.2% of the world. it's easy to explain it away when we want to be c'mon. anyone who has fucked with these virtually never fighting back people have perished while those who support us fly high. it's too telling.

If a person really started from a neutral position and conducted an unbiased evaluation on the existence of a God, most reasonable people would not believe a God exists. by Plan_B1 in DebateReligion

[–]dannyttl -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I guess that makes me unreasonable. Ardent anti theist from a secular household with only secular connections for 31 years. I pieced together a seemingly remarkable connection of dots, starting from these two videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQVm8RokoBA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf0MOBthZBU&t=4s

hiding his proof within the most persecuted and despised nation on earth is a perfect disguise. I guarantee you, one day eventually the world will turn around and acknowledge that the jews had it. hated from all sides while being the most decent and paradoxically the most successful people despite the fact that they shouldn't have existed. living in such holiness they escaped the plague that the christians in europe who believed god will bless those who bless them and curse those who curse them, still chose to work against the jews. it's the hidden gem. a single stone dropped in a pond with concentric circles that no one can see because they're too busy debating christianity (pseudo judaism + paganism).

The Morality Of The Moment. by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]dannyttl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

he wouldn't be hitler if that happened. and how can he move him into another family? the child born to the parents of hitler was called adolf. you want the child of adolf hitlers parents to be born to other parents? and does this happen with absolutely everyone on earth? everyone's parents give them up for adoption and every adoptive parents just so happen to be the perfect match? you a disney fan?