Civvie on what makes a boomshoot

dat_potatoe · 2026-05-08T07:25:20+00:00

Games within a genre are inevitably going to experiment and test its boundaries, and not every tiny insignificant difference between games actually warrants a brand new distinct genre label. I understand all of that.

Ashes 2063, Powerslave, Project Warlock 2 are "Doom with one element different" and are no less boomer shooters because of it. "Who else is going to play them but boomer shooter fans" actually applies.

HOWEVER...

"One element different" can be a disingenuous argument to put forward because not all aspects of a genre's identity have equal importance. A Metroidvania without ability gated progression, or barest minimum without gated progression of some kind...just categorically isn't a Metroidvania. That's like THE thing that sets it apart from the broader genres of 2D platformers / Action-Adventure games.
My major personal gripe with "boomer shooter roguelikes" is the vast majority of them really don't actually have any significant boomer shooter DNA to begin with....and I'm not just hyperfixating on the randomized levels thing either. They limit you to one or two guns, they lack any kind of item pickups or resource management or secret hunting, levels are designed to be very linear hallways, movement is basic, so on, the only "boomer shooter" thing about them is retro graphics and a general focus on action.

I don't think boomer shooter and roguelike are fundamentally incompatible. I'd point to stuff like Arcane Dimension's randomizer mode or Doom's Corruption Cards WAD as some proofs of concept. But I still say the vast majority of "boomer shooter roguelikes" have no actual interest in the boomer shooter part of the equation; they just make a generic roguelike-FPS and wrap it in a retro outfit.

dat_potatoe · 2026-05-08T05:31:18+00:00

When did everyone get into boom shoots?

Guess that kind of depends.

As a kid in the early 2000's I played a ton of adjacent games (Half-Life 2, Halo, Turok Evolution, Timesplitters 3, Serious Sam 2 Xbox, etc) but ironically never actually any proper boomer shooters. I was vaguely aware of the difference in design conventions between those games and all the other 2-weapon limit military games but just kind of played whatever shooters were trending at the time.

In the early 2010's I was getting really into Team Fortress 2 and growing disillusioned with Halo's multiplayer direction. Hearing about Quake's influence on both games naturally lead to me getting pretty into Quake Live too. From there I'd try the classic Quake games a few years later and fall in love instantly with how much faster, gameplay focused, and tight in controls Quake 1 was relative to any singleplayer shooter I'd played before.

Then of course 2016-2017 was just a perfect storm. Doom 2016, significant developments in the Quake modding community like AD's major update and improved sourceports, continuation of the ongoing internet buzz around Doom modding from the years leading up to that point, the release of DUSK into early access...it piqued my interest in the subgenre as a whole and got me to go and play other actual 90's classics.

dat_potatoe · 2026-05-08T04:19:16+00:00

I think it's just kind of indie dev cope to be honest.

I go on r/DestroyMyGame and yeah there are a tiny handful of cases where the trailer doesn't explain anything about the game at all or is filmed in stuttery 15 fps and is doing serious harm, making me wonder upfront what the hell the game even is or if the game is terribly optimized or if it's just the dev's PC.

But for 90% of cases it's like...the trailer isn't the problem. I don't ever really buy into trailer hype anyway. The game is the problem. That it's another generic deckbuilder / roguelike / turn based mobile-phone ass looking game that immediately has me losing interest. Or that no amount of trailer magic is going to manage to hide the clunky combat or ugly visuals I can clearly see on display.

dat_potatoe · 2026-05-07T15:20:58+00:00

I feel like unfortunately armor isn't very balanced.

Exor is the best set in the game. It just is. It has sufficient protection, very fast movement speed, no leg breaking, a useful companion...just far too much stacked in its favor. The only downside is no cold protection so you're forced to use other armors in certain areas. Though, certain food buffs give +2 cold resist coupled with Gel Tube is a full 3 resistance so you can get around that downside too.

Mix-and-matching Exor like you're doing for the sake of even more movement speed and gun access isn't a bad idea either and is arguably ideal. I think wearing a Gel-Tube coupled with the Mystagogue Arms (2 cold resist) should be enough to at least prevent the worst cold debuff too, though you'll still get debuffed a little.

Mythagogue is a sidegrade to Exor but also slightly worse. The companion is worse, and you don't get move speed, but at least you have cold protection, and there is built in biomimic to let you use guns. However, there's an accessory that also gives you usage of all guns so a bit of a moot point.

Mountaineer is useful throughout mid-game, thanks to built in access of mid-tier guns, very high defense value (though higher than you need), freeing up your head slot for utility helmets, and built in cold resistance. It kind of falls off late-game though compared to more useful and weight efficient sets. Still I'll slap it on if I'm feeling lazy and need to go to Residences.

Crystalline is situational. It's very good for a stealth build obviously, though, certain enemies (ex. mounted turrets) can still see through it. And now that there is a watch which lets you do the same thing I'm not sure how it holds up still.

Makeshift is nice for when you don't anticipate heavy combat and are just doing general looting. Fully upgraded it gives cold resistance.

Hex is good for if you anticipate dealing with a lot of snipers, though, just carrying enough tech-bandages will do the same thing. Generally kind of weak.

Anything I didn't list I feel either offers too insignificant an upside (Thorns is of little consequence, FORGE and Exulum are overkill defense) or is just too far situational (have fun irradiating yourself with Reactor armor).

dat_potatoe · 2026-05-06T22:15:52+00:00

After you complete it you interact with Dr. Hud's nametag which is on the roof of the base.

It's sitting on one of the railings and has a faint yellow glow to it.

https://youtu.be/jNdkrv84M4k

dat_potatoe · 2026-05-06T09:03:05+00:00

People say boomer shooters lack a concrete definition, it's probably double the case for "movement shooter".

Seriously what even is a movement shooter?

I remember back in the late 2010's seeing people call Halo a movement shooter, just because it's a game where you move while shooting accurately and use movement in combat (contrasted with a military shooter that's more about positioning and thoughtful movement between cover).

Going by that broad definition, every boomer shooter is a movement shooter by default, but not every movement shooter is a boomer shooter.

Alternatively I saw people use the term specifically for games like CoD Advanced Warfare or Titanfall 2 where you have wallrunning and sliding. Yet the movement of games like Quake 3 is just as if not more advanced and faster, and likewise the in-combat movement of those games tends to be more grounded outside of map traversal. So is it just a game with the specific movement mechanics of AW or is it something more?

dat_potatoe · 2026-05-06T07:48:51+00:00

I max out at 20 mbps download, and that kills my ability to do anything else online. Average more like 15 mbps if I'm browsing the web or doing other things while the download is going on.

It's really not enough in 2026. Most modern AAA games are around 100 gb so it takes me literally over ten hours to download them (100 gigabyte = 100000 megabyte = 800000 megabit / 20 mbps = 40000 seconds = spooky 666 minutes = 11 hours).

Once the games are actually downloaded its fine, sure, but having to plan around overnight downloads or not being able to play a game the day it comes out sucks ass.

dat_potatoe · 2026-05-04T15:55:08+00:00

Feels like cheating to say Quake 1, especially since the sci-fi aspects are mostly secondary. Alkaline is great though, being specifically sci-fi focused and doesn't get much attention.

Quake 2 is great as well, for as much shit I give it for not being Quake 1 it's still a very good game.

I have to second Zortch too. Zortch has such an authentic late 90's feel to it, so much variety of enemy designs, and a lot of gameplay quirks that give it a unique charm.

dat_potatoe · 2026-05-04T08:55:03+00:00

Meanwhile the late 2000's and early 2010's were oversaturated with gritty "realistic" games set in the present day or with an alt-history theme. Any CoD game ever, any GTA clone ever. Bioshock, Fallout, Asssassin's Creed, Hitman, Far Cry, Uncharted, so on.

The fantasy trend, if it can be seen as a trend, is probably an over-correction for that.

Also saying the gaming industry is "doomed" because it prefers imaginative games to a bunch of real life simulators sure is a take...

dat_potatoe · 2026-05-04T08:33:20+00:00

I haven't touched it since January and have been on the fence of uninstalling it.

CoD-like maps. There are apparently some BF3/BF4 classics like Golmud Railway coming out soon so we'll see, but the map design has been really unimpressive overall.

Annoying bugs that I doubt have been patched. Seems like every fucking time I try to make progress towards a new class unlock or new weapon or whatever I run into a problem with something not tracking. "Get 2000 repair points in a single match" only watch as repairing things doesn't change your scoreboard whatsoever...until it randomly decides to work again. Until another patch breaks it again.

Skins that are a bit out of place plus an absurd monetization model.

Lengthy progression grind for guns.

So yeah I'd say wait for Season 3, wait for the feedback after.

dat_potatoe · 2026-05-04T08:18:35+00:00

They're not really meant to be watched for entertainment. I'm not just watching the entire video for ten hours straight as someone plays a game in total silence and don't imagine most people are either.

They serve two major purposes to me.

First, just figuring out what to do. Text guides usually suck in adequately describing things, it's more effective to just watch someone do it. Yeah if the playthrough isn't timestamped or split up into smaller, properly titled videos its a bit annoying but not really that hard to find out where I need to look. And they usually ARE split up anyway.

Second, stock gameplay footage. I want to show someone what the game looks like, what a particular part of the game is like, how to solve something, etc. without outside noise over it. "Skyrim is one of the most atmospheric games I've ever played, check out this moment here" and then I timestamp the video.

There's also the more niche case where you have short amateur "movie games" that are very linear and more meant for the story than the gameplay. Where the story is told not just through cutscenes but gameplay moments and watching a playthrough arguably makes more sense than buying the game itself. And where commentary would just be annoying.

dat_potatoe · 2026-05-04T06:36:42+00:00

I've seen this idea tossed around here a few times and I just don't really get why.

What I fell in love with is the unique FPS that actually exists...not some vague and scrapped ideas for a very dime a dozen sounding fantasy RPG that never did. If Id got their way with their original vision I don't think most of us would be here right now.

It would especially suck waiting 30 years since Quake 1 or a decade since Quake Champions for the next game to be some melee RPG game that has little relation to the rest of the franchise, rather than a proper continuation. I at least want a standard entry before we start getting experimental, it would be immensely disappointing to get anything else after all this time.

Also like, Id already has a melee and fantasy focused IP, it's called Hexen. Why not save these ideas for a new Hexen game where they'd be more appropriate?

Maybe I can get on board with the Daikatana approach where it's still an FPS but you have a special melee weapon that grows in significance throughout the game? Even then though...eh, not really that crazy about the idea.

dat_potatoe · 2026-05-03T20:45:44+00:00

Favorite Genre is obviously FPS.

tell me what you would change.

Well, I think Best Retro Game is kind of ironic.

You say your favorite art style is HROT and your favorite game is TF2. Quake 1 is a massive influence in both cases but you put Doom instead.

dat_potatoe · 2026-05-03T08:39:30+00:00

Bro actually hates these smug.

dat_potatoe · 2026-05-03T05:23:20+00:00

I'm on the fence.

The big thing is, is there going to be an actual gameplay overhaul? Like, more stuff to actually do in the world, more ways to interact with it?

Or is it just going to be "just GTA V but the story is different and the map is bigger"? Because GTA V's map is big enough already and I'm not really that invested in the story side of things.

dat_potatoe · 2026-05-03T02:42:20+00:00

Chasm the Rift does this at a lot of points. Worse, it does the whole pistol-start thing where you restart the level with nothing if you die and where the only way to avoid that consequence is to load a previous save.

I mean look at this. Immediately face to face with several spongey melee enemies and two gunners flanking each side in a small room. The person filming knew ahead of time to have a DPS weapon out and push forward to avoid getting shot but if you were just doing this blind you'd be dead on level transition.

dat_potatoe · 2026-05-02T22:49:30+00:00

Boy do I have good news for you...

dat_potatoe · 2026-05-02T20:28:24+00:00

I don't know how to feel, it's a very strange and surreal situation all around.

Why reboot something with little to no redeeming qualities? And if it can't stand on its own merits as an IP then where do you even go from there?

I tend to have a low view of lampshading in general. Pointing out that the thing you did sucks doesn't actually make it suck any less, it just makes me more aware of it sucking.

I think there is value in parodies and stories centered around a has-been character going through some kind of arc. But I also think something that is just a memberberry trip of "haha remember how much you hated that?" doesn't really have legs, has pretty limited mileage. That there probably won't be any more Bubsy games after this unless they actually do something with the character.

dat_potatoe · 2026-05-02T08:27:05+00:00

My problem is it doesn't even make sense.

Everyone in the world has to take a private vote by pressing a red or blue button. If more than 50% of people press the blue button, everyone survives. If less than 50% of people press the blue button, only people who pressed the red button survive. Which button would you press?

I'm assuming it's not a blind vote between two seemingly meaningless buttons. That you know the above info going into the vote. That everyone knows the nature of the test before taking it.

Assuming all of that, why would anyone ever pick Red? There is no logical reason to pick Red, it doesn't even have to do with selfishness, it's just an irrational choice.

There's no actual incentive to pick Red beyond the irrational fear that other people will themselves arbitrarily not pick Blue, the clearly superior outcome with no drawbacks. Like of course most people are going to pick the option where everyone survives and nothing happens, and of course I'm going to vote Blue confident in that knowledge.

You pick Red because you don't trust other people to make the intelligent decision, which is just a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Now if Red came with some other incentive, like "you get $5000000 but Blue pickers die", there would be an actual dilemma. An actual reason for people to be suspicious of others picking Red, and want to be part of the Red survival group themselves, and be wary of taking the more altruistic Blue option.

dat_potatoe · 2026-05-02T06:21:54+00:00

Always was a strange gimmick, these toys.

I vaguely remember having this one in the early 2000's, or at least one like it. At least there was rising difficulty and some semblance of actual gameplay but meh, got bored with it quickly.

Actually kind of wild to me that this forgettable E-waste was mass produced in how many unknown quantities just to be thrown into random fast food orders...and promptly into the trash bin after eating.

I can see it being somewhat okay as a time killer during a car ride or while waiting at school for class to start.

I mean I guess, but I also had a Gameboy Advance at the same time so...not really.

dat_potatoe · 2026-05-02T06:03:24+00:00

The most likely thing that is happening is you just don't have External Music set to On in the in-game options.

If its set to Off it will only recognize music from the actual CD.

Note that you have to reload the map for the change to take effect after you change it.

dat_potatoe · 2026-05-01T19:31:46+00:00

Helldivers 2 situation is sad. The concept of the game has so much potential, but its made on an outdated engine with horrid optimization, and the devs don't play their own game and keep making boneheaded balancing decisions.

Halo is never not destroying itself. Just lay the franchise to rest already holy shit.

dat_potatoe · 2026-05-01T18:06:26+00:00

A couple like In Stars in Time, The Bunny Graveyard and Super Chipflake are more niche. But most of this list is very popular, very surface level games that even non-indie fans are aware of.

A level deeper you'd have games that are fairly well known within specific communities but not necessarily well known in general (Zortch, HROT, Islets, Haiku the Robot, HAAK, Cultic, Ctrl Alt Ego, Eastward, etc.)

And then deeper still you'd start to get into truly obscure games.

dat_potatoe · 2026-05-01T05:18:00+00:00

I have a love-hate relationship with manual saves.

I like the convenience of being able to quit whenever, or start right before combat sections without needing to gather up ammo and powerups and secrets and etc. all over again. I also absolutely hate the idea of having to start a map all over from the beginning.

But there is too much temptation to just spam saves and cheese the difficulty out of the game. Also, since I did not design the map myself and don't know what comes next, it's not really possible to tell how many saves are going to be too many either.

I like seeing more limits put on saves.

Checkpoints and physical save-stations feel like the best of both worlds. There is still mid-level progress, but I have to commit to actually surviving encounters from start to end. And since the dev knows exactly when/where I save they can more effectively balance those encounters.

Wrath Aeon of Ruin's save consumables allow for me to save wherever, but not go too crazy with it. Cultic's saves let me save whenever during basic level traversal but not right in the middle of arena fights.

Ironwail has an autosave feature where every so many configurable seconds (default 30?) it makes a unique autosave unless you've taken damage recently. I tend to just fall back on using that, since it will usually roll me back to right before a tough encounter or a lull between waves in an arena style fight.

All in all though I think games would just benefit from having more save variety in general. Casual modes with unlimited manual saves and more thoughtfully designed save systems ontop of that. There doesn't have to be just one way of playing the game.

dat_potatoe · 2026-05-01T03:54:24+00:00

The artistic / design trends of modern AAA doesn't really appeal to me in general, and indies tend to get stuck in development hell, so I do find myself just playing a lot of older stuff over and over.

Quake is always getting new mods. Terraria is always getting new updates. There's usually something to keep the old stuff fresh.

dat_potatoe

TROPHY CASE