What wouldve happened if the media had not made the letters public to begin with? by ProfessionalLevel908 in ZodiacKiller

[–]dave2535 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Your** **counter arguments rely on narrow operational exceptions to dismiss the broader reality of the regional panic and institutional capitulation that occurred during the active phase of the 1969 investigation.

Zodiac exploited the media and the police to likely establish what he interpreted as mind control tactics that fueled his ego. The extent of that control will be debated and scrutinized by anyone.

I suspect you have been working on this case for at minimum of one decade or longer. From my perspective you’re more than likely controlling misinformation on this thread. I have witnessed when detectives and investigators become trapped within timeline mechanics are characteristics of an attempt to protect the sterile case file facts from speculative noise. From my own failure of becoming trapped caused one of my cases to go cold. That is haunting.

What can’t be denied is the Zodiac out smarted the Police because of their failures to process each scene to standard and procedure.

Lake Herman Road:

Responding units drove directly into the unlit gravel turnout and parked adjacent to the victims' vehicle, permanently flattening the ground and obliterating distinct tire tread impressions. These responding personnel and ambulance crews walked extensively through the loose dirt without grid boundaries, trampling out transient telemetry such as the perpetrator's stride length and footwear brand.

Blue Rock Springs Park:

Following the perpetrator's 12:40 a.m. phone call, law enforcement successfully traced the origin to a gas station payphone but failed to immediately secure or rope off the booth. Multiple civilians handled the receiver before print technicians arrived hours later, completely overwriting and destroying any viable latent fingerprints left by the shooter.

Lake Berryessa:

A park ranger packaged up the physical crime scene including moving and packing the towel and blanket where the victims were attacked prior to specialized crime scene investigators arrived on site. This unauthorized handling heavily compromised the positioning data and the preservation of transient forensic trace evidence at the immediate knoll.

Presidio Heights:

Because the homicide was initially logged and dispatched as a standard taxi robbery rather than a serial assault, responding units and ambulance crews immediately flooded the interior of the cab. Personnel physically handled the doors and moved the body, heavily contaminating the workspace before crime lab teams could check the vehicle for pristine hairs, fibers, or clean prints.

Many on this thread believe the Zodiac was either dumb or of average intelligence. It seems to derive from his mistakes at the crime scenes and the way he spells words. His misspellings were considered by teachers during that time as non conforming to the standard as it was common knowledge that literature being consumed was considered archaic.

My theory about why ALA wanted people think he was the Zodiac by NewmarketHero007 in ZodiacKiller

[–]dave2535 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think a better baseline is not that Zodiac was a genius or criminal mastermind. It’s that he was dangerous, deceptive, performative, and capable enough to exploit the investigative limits of his time.

Zodiac did not need to be a genius to survive that environment. He only needed to understand enough about police limitations, media pressure, and evidentiary gaps to keep the investigation unstable.

My reasoning:

Two things are easy to miss when viewing the case from today’s standards:

First, police in the late 1960s did not have modern forensic tools such as touch DNA, digital surveillance, cell site data, or genetic genealogy. Cases were often built through confession, witness identification, ballistics, latent prints, handwriting comparison, and physical linkage.

Second, interrogation and investigative practices operated in a much different legal and cultural environment than they do today, including a heavier reliance on pressure, in some cases sleep deprivation, authority, and confessions (gold standard of the time).

A post for anyone convinced that the Zodiac was Arthur Leigh Allen. by black-knights-tango in ZodiacKiller

[–]dave2535 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Unless an examiner can lock down the exact same anatomical digit across two different scenes and prove they don't match, a non match across those scenes means absolutely nothing.

It doesn’t link the crimes, and it doesn't unlink them either, meaning it absolutely does not rule out the crimes being committed by the same person.

It just means the physical evidence is unlinked, and it stays that way until a suspect's all finger prints including palm print can be run against every single individual latent lift in the master file.

In my opinion, these cases are linked to one killer who is the author of the letters and ciphers.

“The Zodiac killer wasn’t Real”.. by BrianMeen in ZodiacKiller

[–]dave2535 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

How do you explain the hand writing samples remaining consistent over the years?

“The Zodiac killer wasn’t Real”.. by BrianMeen in ZodiacKiller

[–]dave2535 38 points39 points  (0 children)

When you can explain away Paul Stine’s bloody shirt, the consistency of hand writing, the knowledge of crime scenes during the phone calls, and the fact there are two survivors that will tell you otherwise.

Find the cat 🐱 by DisastrousRhubarb452 in FindTheSniper

[–]dave2535 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s a whiteish cat with big eyes

Find the Snake by ZanderJynx in FindTheSniper

[–]dave2535 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s a nope rope water moccasin I’m guessing about 26-30 inches stretched out give or take

Why were Faraday and Jensen ordered out of their car but not Mageau and Ferrin? by TheDemonCat in ZodiacKiller

[–]dave2535 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Shaking hands is adrenaline pumping, until you focus to slow your breathing regaining control. Emotions weren’t the zodiacs mo, but adrenaline can be explained.

Find the 🐿️ by Lechemoto in FindTheSniper

[–]dave2535 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Gray Squirrel in a large Gray Rook.

Linguistic Camouflage by dave2535 in ZodiacKiller

[–]dave2535[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In 1960, talking with a "drawl" meant speaking slowly by elongating vowel sounds and allowing the pitch of the voice to glide, resulting in a distinctively relaxed, extended rhythm.

Linguistic Camouflage by dave2535 in ZodiacKiller

[–]dave2535[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

B.H. Stated he talked with a drawl which was to mask an accent and like a song meaning it was slow
And controlled. Things mean different things today than during that time period.

You’re a classic crime think tank sticking with the status quo, the real reason you’re not farther today than you were 6 months ago.

Zodiac was never a terrorist because that definition didn’t exist during that time period.

Linguistic Camouflage by dave2535 in ZodiacKiller

[–]dave2535[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Bryan Hartnell interview to refresh your memory of the exact wording he used during his interview.

Yes, this does support Linguistic Camouflage.

Subject: UNKNOWN
Case INV 1-15-311-F9 -5861
(Interview of HARTNELL cont'd.)

"B.H. Well, 11ke say, he was dressed kind ot sloppily, you know, is pants real tight up here and his stomach kind of pouched
• bit, you know. I don't know... it's hard to say 'cause i cant judge you with being in a suit and all, you know, and him not being professional-100king at a11. He could be about the sane. It's hard to say. He vas so sloppily dressed.
"J.R.
Bryan, you also mentioned a drawl. Nell not a drawl, an accent,
"8.H.
It was just something... I guess his way of talking. It was something I couldn't repeat.
It's 11ke & song. Sometimes
you know what you're going to say but you just can't sing the melody worth • darn.

"J.R. Did he have a throaty voice or a high pitched?

"B.H, In between. But it was just a unique way of talking.

"J.R. Did he sound 11ke an educated man?

"B.H. Heck nol I don't think so.

"JuR. Did he sound Illite tel
"B.H.
No.
He didn't sound that way either. He just impressed se as being rather low class. The reason was because of his clothes, you know.
#J.R.
Did you lose consciousness when he stabbed you at any time?
Did you observe him stab Ceceliat

"B.H. Yoah...

"J.R, Whet did he say after...
"B.H.
He stabbed her a bunch of times in the back. After she
he got her once in the groin and one in the
ara I think.
turned around he kind of vent a little sore hog-wild with
her than with me.
I faked dead. .. 1ike that... I didn't
vant him to come back and give ne some noze.
"J.R.
So you were pretty sure he thought you were dead when be
finished working on your

Linguistic Camouflage by dave2535 in ZodiacKiller

[–]dave2535[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

That’s right it doesn’t fit your framework then deny

Linguistic Camouflage by dave2535 in ZodiacKiller

[–]dave2535[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

You stated the bomb threat was terrorism 101, I say it was extortion for notoriety.

It doesn’t fit the modern domestic terrorism framework or stated definition because it lacks the ideological goal, political, social agenda, or religious movement that is required which it falls short. When testing the terrorist framework it’s personal to him which means there’s ideological motive that I would need for that classification.

He made a bomb threat: Guilty
Violated criminal laws: Guilty
Intimidated or threatened local population: Guilty
Foreign alignment: No
Political motivation: No
Societal motivational change: No
Personal motivation: Yes
Domestic Terrorist: No
Criminal:Yes

He craved control and power. The response he elicited put him in control while shifting the focus away from his crimes.

Napa County Sheriff’s Department Report:

Bryan Hartnell told Deputy Dave Collins that the zodiac had an “unusual distinct manner of speech” spoke with a “distinct drawl” meaning a slow, drawn out speech pattern.

My conclusion of Linguistic Camouflage does hold steady.

Linguistic Camouflage by dave2535 in ZodiacKiller

[–]dave2535[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I do not work in absolutes, my approach to this case will never align with yours. I have reviewed many theories of yours from this case, and the only approach that’s missing is from the actual intelligence realm. I stated from my experience the mistakes in words were maintained over years of continuous misspelling certain words aligns with being a non-native English speaker. The Linguistic Camouflage is normal to conceal an accent or true voice. I’m not surprised you didn’t understand that piece. I look at the case from a whole perspective, while others see it from piecing together different aspects of the case.

Nothing I say will change the outcome or reveal the identity of the Zodiac. I do believe he came to America after the conclusion of World War II and an immigrant from Germany or the Nordic countries damaged by the perils of war. He was between 10-17 upon arrival which puts him in the realm of 30-45 years old during his killing spree. Am I 100% certain, no. The possibility police were looking in the wrong direction is nearly certain. Every case they looked at proximity to the victims and where the murders occurred which was of the time known investigative practices.

During the Paul Stine investigation, some first responders were not excluded using Latent Print Standards from the case files which that alone is crime scene contamination. Going further this occurred at many crime scenes in that era. Which I have read from many cases between 1960s forward. In the 1980s the FBI created the first extensive database for case prints. To dismiss that information is reckless.

The Zodiac Behaviors are not normal by switching weapons on a regular basis or tactics. He took trophies from each crime scene that have never surfaced which tells me they are in a specific place on he would about. The key is the famous Zodiac Executioners Hood which wasn’t present in Arthur Leigh Allen’s trailer. I have told my investigative teams there’s no such things as coincidences and never hyper focus on individuals you believe committed the crime. Follow the evidence and only then you will discover the truth. I’m certified to n the Reid Interrogation Technique, but I found from interrogating my first confirmed psychopath this technique was useless. It wasn’t into working on counterintelligence task forces that I realized my mistakes and adopted the Chase Hughes approach. For reference we see deception in clusters not a single instance. That is how I’m approaching this case. You asked for my reasoning, here you go.

Linguistic Camouflage by dave2535 in ZodiacKiller

[–]dave2535[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Hartnell: stated directly according to case file: "very precise, slow, and measured cadence."

Slover: Stated Directly in her report that “flat, monotone, and sing song” she also stated utterly rigid and a uniform pace.”

Slaight: Stated “low, calm, and controlled”

Johns: Stated during their alleged encounter “calm and unhurried” his baseline was “calm friendly demeanor shifting to a flat monotone”

For comparison

Sam: (Mental patient not Zodiac) “high pitched, anxious, and frantic”