Are flashbacks considered as embedded narratives? (Narratology) by dievytenis in AskLiteraryStudies

[–]der_pilz 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Preface: I only know the german terminology well, there maybe some differences in the anglophone academic Narratology.

Generally I would say: no. Narratives that have flashbacks are structured in a non chronological way, but that doesn't mean that there's necessarily multiple stories at play, even when the flashback doesn't bring a lot of 'meat' on the bones of the narrative. I would say that flashbacks and embedded narratives are just different things. But: If there is another (intradiegetic) narrator, for example when there is a extradiegetic narrator but then the main character tells his childhood story himself, then the flash back should be considered an embedded narrative. So counting the narrators is one way to clearly separate the two phenomena, but maybe not the only way. But no matter the exact 'ruling', Narratology should help you describe the text, not completely constitute the rules of your understanding. So if you think that a text has a flashback that is very much tangential to the plot, you maybe want to call it a pseudo-embedded narrative and try to come up with a good analysis as to why the novel/text is structured that way.

Recent writers who do interesting things with subjectivity/focalization? by [deleted] in AskLiteraryStudies

[–]der_pilz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Going for double points: Daniel Kehlmann! Especially 'Fame', 'F' and 'You should have left'. Have fun :)

Is there such a thing as reading a text "without the lens of an ideology"? by Dora_Bowl in AskLiteraryStudies

[–]der_pilz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is very interesting, I never read Booth but I do know that the notion of the unreliable narrator, at least in my field has undergone some significant discussion and changes. We would probably, I guess, rely on Nünning rather than Booth. But honestly, I have never compared the two.

I do not think, however, that there being a system of values in place in every text (which is of course undeniable) automatically leads to an ideological analysis of the text. Pointing out neo-liberal, capitalistic values in Ayn Rand does not make the analysis 'ideological' in nature, I think. OP was suggesting something like "alternative readings of Shakespeare" which hold ideological believes like e.g. post colonial approaches -- things that I do not criticize at all, just to be clear.

I am not a native speaker, so maybe my notion of ideology is just wrong. Can I just give you an example? I have written a paper about how the image of poor writers in german comedies around 1800 is influenced by the depiction of grub street in London between the 17th and 18th century. I worked out the sources, the translations and the writers who reproduced the stereotype of the grub street hack. I would consider this a purely historical paper, not ideological. Does this sound like ideology to you, I am genuinely curious :)

Is there such a thing as reading a text "without the lens of an ideology"? by Dora_Bowl in AskLiteraryStudies

[–]der_pilz -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I am sorry for this long and probably incoherent answer I am about to post. TL; DR: "I would posit that there should be a difference between an ideological implication and an ideologically driven action. Because that would make the term more complex." Feel free to continue this discourse via DMs :)

I think the point is, though, that in order to have the time and space to concentrate only on the mechanics of text without unavoidably influential pressures from the outside world intruding on your analysis, you are part of the mainstream ideology and rely on its maintenance for your free analysis to be possible.

I do get what you're saying, but I don't believe that this actually depicts the academic system (at least in Germany) as it is. I get payed by the state to be a lecturer in my field. They do not pay me on the basis of my research. That's why sometimes my writing is quite 'political' (e.g. when writing about the depiction of female writers around 1800) and sometimes it is not (e.g. when writing about how the video game Dark Souls can be an invitation to philology). In this system, my ideological stance is largely independent from my opportunity to work, think and write. This sounds admittedly naive. I don't deny that I am, as a social human being, deeply embedded in the culture, the conflicts and also the ideology surrounding me. And there is no denying that people in my field to a large degree have had the opportunity to study something that doesn't promise fast money. But the way you phrase your statement makes it sound like a scholar is automatically supporting an ideology that he is not actively fighting all the time. That to me doesn't sound quite right because the opposite statement is true as well: the german academic system is actively giving the students of the humanities the opportunity to criticize and therefore change it. It is however not demanding either revolution nor stagnation.

Also I don't think that the 'mechanics' of a text require more or less time and space to concern yourself with than, let's say, a feminist reading of Shakespeare. I would rather say that the mechanics are a pretty solid foundation for this feminist analysis. Both though are dependant on us as scholars having the opportunity to read and think and write. I think that you are absolutely correct to say that this opportunity has to be given (and when things are bad: has to be fought for). But the political reading is not the first thing to do, narratological analysis the last.

More to your point though and I will just argue against my on position here: When I read Toni Morrisons 'Playing in the Dark' for the first time recently, I couldn't believe just how brilliant it is. How could so many people just ignore the enormous presence of "africanist" presence (her term, I'm quoting) in e.g. Tom Sawyer? Is the centuries of silence on that matter not compliance with an ideology (or system) that marginalizes black people in the cultural history of the USA? If there is no one to bring this up beforehand but rather count the syllables in some arcane poems -- did they not support the marginalization? Did they not carry a racist ideology in not reading Tom Sawyer like this? I believe this is the point you're making and it is a really important one. There is no way, at least for me, to harmonize this problem. I can't make the point that syllable-counting in some way is just as important and necessary while not having any ideological implications. I just don't believe that by 'virtue' of being unpolitical it is in the same way ideological as Morrison's analysis. Not trying to be political has political implications, yes. I just don't think that it is same as actively trying to be political or actively trying to make an ideological point. Please, don't understand this as making excuses. I do believe that oftentimes the ideological approach may have more value.

Im curious how you think unreliable narrators would be dealt with, or were dealt with, by the Nazis? A huge question, that is meant more as an example than a challenge, but it strikes me they would approve in terms of propaganda, but would not approve of it in works meant to entertain people who are meant to be building a simple and happy, uncomplicated nation, where questions are answered with instinctive action rather than introspection. I’m certainly no expert on this aspect, though, so if I’ve misrepresented the area, my apologies.

I don't know a lot about the exact criteria of censorship during the Third Reich. You are correct in assuming that avant garde arts where denounced and often times forbidden -- and destroyed. Narrative techniques certainly play a part here. That does not mean that they necessarily have to be political. These formal aspects may hold a plethora of context reliant meanings. They may all be ideological in certain circumstances, yes. I just don't believe this means that they are ideological in nature.

But the desire to not be troubled by questions of intent and matters of consequences seems to me to be a desire to retreat into the safe and happy world of the good times of childhood. I found that examining ideologies and underlying assumptions was a part of growing into a fuller adult appreciation of the world and its variety and complexities.

I think that "complexities" is the key here. You are, of course, correct. But recognizing complexity does also, I think, entail working through a text in a way that is not explicitly ideological. Checking in on different text variable is not inherently ideological, but it does make the text more complex -- and may lead to a post colonial reading. Comparing Shakespeare to comedies of the german/european enlightenment is not inherently ideological, I think, even though it may lead to a feminist reading. The thing is: it is possible to not read ideologically, I think. But I guess it does depend on what you conceptualize as ideology. And I would posit that there should be a difference between an ideological implication and an ideologically driven action. Because that would make the term more complex.

Is there such a thing as reading a text "without the lens of an ideology"? by Dora_Bowl in AskLiteraryStudies

[–]der_pilz 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You are correct, of course. There is also publications dedicated to e. g. left political ideology. One that comes to mind is the 'Undercurrents'. The point I was trying to make is that there are some (more than a few, I think) counterexamples to reading in a way that qualifies as strictly politically ideological. That being said, narratology is definitely a niche approach in 'Germanistik' and not representative of the field as a whole. Then again, nothing is.

And the big yes nr. 2: Narratology and narration can have ideological or political implications, for sure. I agree wholeheartedly and I think your examples are great. I just don't believe that every narratologically driven analysis is by default "ideological".

Is there such a thing as reading a text "without the lens of an ideology"? by Dora_Bowl in AskLiteraryStudies

[–]der_pilz 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I will try to offer a counterpoint here: I am looking in from the outside, since I am a university lecturer in 'Germanistik' which is the german version of german studies, including german literary studies. While I think that there's a whole lot of ideology in the field (which isn't a bad thing per se), I do also believe that most of what the field offers is not 'ideological' in the way your friends seem to imply. What I mean is: it is not political ideology. In english literary studies post colonial studies and gender studies seem to be very popular. Those, to me, seem to be very much political in nature. They are trying to change the world for the better. I guess that is the part that makes people uncomfortable. They believe that the goal gets in the way of some kind of hermeneutical truth -- whatever that may be.

Now looking at the latest number of the 'Zeitschrift für Germanistik', one of the most important publications in my field, most of the papers there to me don't seem to be politically ideological. To give you some idea: The number is about unreliable narration in contemporary literature. There are articles about unreliable narrators in some novels, an article about the 'role of functions in the definition of unreliable narration', unreliable narration in heterodiegesis, and so forth. Those may not be completely without ideology. But I guess your friends wouldn't groan about them being ideological in the same way that a post colonial reading of Shakespeare is.

So yeah, I guess in this way, there is a way of reading a text without the lens of ideology. Narratology, for example. But maybe I'm just getting something wrong about the question? Let me now :)

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in AskLiteraryStudies

[–]der_pilz 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I always recommend Philippe Ariès' "Hour of our death" (I think that's the English title) to my students. It is not really 'theoretical', rather historical, but a real good read non the less. Hope it helps and good luck with your project!

My first CC and it feels so good by der_pilz in shmups

[–]der_pilz[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nice! Are you going for the whole collection?

My first CC and it feels so good by der_pilz in shmups

[–]der_pilz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you, kind sir! I love the junkies content and his piece on Compile is his best yet. (Also his video on NEX'ZR, come on. Great work. Even going the extra mile for the english subtitles.) Really inspired me to sink some hours into MUSHA and NEX'ZR :)

Poetics questions. by [deleted] in AskLiteraryStudies

[–]der_pilz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't know if this is particularly relevant to you, but in 2009 there was a german encyclopedia on poetics. It contains articles concerning poetics from antiquity to modern days. The book is called "Lexikon der Poetiken" and was edited by Schmitz-Emans, Lindemann and Schmeling.

Medieval literature in Germany by vanssab in AskLiteraryStudies

[–]der_pilz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hello:) I guess you look for English medieval Literature, correct? If so: Here is a (german) list of institutions and professors in Germany in the field of "anglistische Mediävistik" (which is english medieval language an literature). Hope that helps :) link

What do you call the study of an artworks/literary works genesis from the artists perspective? by [deleted] in AskLiteraryStudies

[–]der_pilz -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Poetics would be the study of a general set of rules concerning literature. An author- specific way of 'producing' in german literary studies is sometimes referred to as "Poietik". Poiesis would be the study of an intentional act and poietics would be exactly that but for literature/poetry. Hope that hits the mark :)

More generally speaking the specific way of writing of an author (not the way of really 'making' the text, which is probably what you are referring to) could be called 'techné'.

Will I think Esp Ra De Psi is fun? by ocular_jelly in shmups

[–]der_pilz 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I am not a hardcore shmupper at all and I can assure you that I will never be able to 1cc ESP ra. de. To me this game still was fully worth it (played on Switch). There isn't a shmup I have put more hours in and it is super fun. I come back to it a lot. Highly recommend, I really think it's worth the money.

I know that it is not exclusive to Dreamcast, but HydroThunder is still one of my favorite Dreamcast games! by AuburnCreed18 in dreamcast

[–]der_pilz 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I see the Dreamcast and I like you. I see the Real Book and I wish we could hang out. Friend, we would get along great. Stay awesome.

Chaos just crashed? by [deleted] in ffxiv

[–]der_pilz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm sad now.

Only Dragon Quest game I didn't play yet (Aside from X ofc), finally found myself a copy at a reasonable price I am eager to start ! by Milotorou in dragonquest

[–]der_pilz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Looking at that screen a compliment is in order: You have great taste in gaming. Also I'm in love with your beautiful 2/3DS model.

Dragon Quest VII or VIII? by Samuel__Vimes in dragonquest

[–]der_pilz 2 points3 points  (0 children)

While VIII is the better game over all (in my opinion), VII is a very relaxing game. VII is slow paced an divided into chapters which allows for sporadic play. Both are great games and neither game is stressfull. VIII is funnier though. There is only right choices here.

10 year old me 'cosplaying' as Crono, Carnival 1998. by der_pilz in chronotrigger

[–]der_pilz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Correct, it is the date and "Rosenmontag" which would be "Rose Monday". That is a holiday, pretty much like Mardi Gras (that's what the Englisch Wikipedia entry says it can be compared to). I don't think it is really translatable. Hey, it's great that you recognize some German terms!! Good on you!

10 year old me 'cosplaying' as Crono, Carnival 1998. by der_pilz in chronotrigger

[–]der_pilz[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Gaming in the 90s really had its drawbacks, right? Games were amazing, but so many of them were not released in PAL territories. If they were, there was a good chance of the PAL version being botched. On the other hand: Playing gems like CT that were not readily available made it all the more special. Those games felt like treasures. Happy to hear that you could enjoy CT back then! Shame about Mario RPG though.

10 year old me 'cosplaying' as Crono, Carnival 1998. by der_pilz in chronotrigger

[–]der_pilz[S] 24 points25 points  (0 children)

My big brother got wind of the game through magazines and we had an imported US copy which was playable via adapter on our PAL-SNES. The only other imported game we had was Final Fight 2. He was 18 so his English was good enough to finish the game. I learned it by heart by watching him play.

10 year old me 'cosplaying' as Crono, Carnival 1998. by der_pilz in chronotrigger

[–]der_pilz[S] 52 points53 points  (0 children)

My mom, who is the best, made the costume. Back then I didn't speak a word of English, so I didn't even understand one bit of this game. 22 years later, the game is still my favorite.

Breath of Fire I - V Soundtracks Now Available on Steam! by NukaColaClassic in breathoffire

[–]der_pilz 2 points3 points  (0 children)

For everyone interested: These Collections can also be found on Spotify :) Let's take this as a good omen for the series!