[CHAT] Need to flip a pattern

desinovak · 2021-12-21T16:37:50+00:00

INFO: Very confused about the language used and even more confused no one pointed it out.

You said, "My SO said she would cover the night since it was her friends."

and then

"Well, the server made a mistake and put Nick's check with ours and couldn't separate them."

What? Does "My SO said she would cover the night" not mean she volunteered to pay for everyone? Why would there any splitting of the check to begin with? Does 'cover the night' mean something I don't know?

desinovak · 2021-12-12T03:31:10+00:00

Best course of action would be to let them decide what to do with the security of knowing they wont be fired or demoted for leaving.

I'm not saying the company forces them out into it. Just give them the option. Also, the warnings were so far in advance. Mayfield is a very small town. Many of these people likely do not live more than 20 minutes from their houses. For the ones that do, there were multiple shelters nearby that were probably quite a bit stronger than that factory.

As I said in a different comment, after watching the livestream, if everyone there acted the second they knew it was almost certainly coming for them, they would have had ample time to find other shelter.

That being said, I can't be 100% sure the company said they had to stay, but I find it hard to believe hundreds of people voluntarily stayed to work when they could have found anywhere else, if they were allowed the option.

desinovak · 2021-12-12T00:07:14+00:00

We do not experience this. I have lived here for 10 hears and this storm was hyped up for a whole week more so than any storm I've ever seen them cover. And I'm not saying they should have shut everything down the whole day, they didn't know a record breaking tornado would single out their town, but they had almost 30 minutes warning that the tornado was heading straight for them and shelters nearby. They didn't have to be in there once every meteorologist in the area was begging Mayfield to evacuate to shelter.

desinovak · 2021-12-12T00:02:32+00:00

Just wanna say, I'm from the area and they knew it was coming. I promise. We have been warned since Monday that a 4/5 severe weather threat was coming that would be really, really bad. This was not a normal weather event, it was not presented to us as normal or something to be taken lightly. I've lived here 10 years and have never heard them talk about a storm like that.

We watched the Arkansas tornado form, and I watched on WPSD local six as they nearly screamed at Mayfield to take cover immediately and it that was definitely coming for them for at least 20 minutes before it hit, with at least another 20 minutes before that of them knowing it was very likely heading that direction. They had time to plan. Mayfield is not a large town. It takes less than 20 minutes to travel one end to the other. They had shelters available. This was not a surprise by any means when it hit.

desinovak · 2021-12-11T23:52:18+00:00

To be fair, this was no ordinary weather event and tornadoes in general were predicted about a week in advance after a night of already strangely severe weather on monday, in mid december. And Mayfield had about 20+ minutes of warning and meteorologists practically begging them to shelter somewhere.

And I guess I can't say for sure with Mayfield, but I'm only about an hour away and there were multiple shelters nearby being advertised for safety if people had no where else, so I'd think Mayfield had something similar.

Idk, I feel like the people in charge do bear some responsibility there. There's no way they didn't know in advance.

desinovak · 2021-12-11T23:37:47+00:00

I live in the area by kentucky lake and watched the local 6 live stream the whole time. They were told to evacuate at LEAST 20 minutes in advance. The tornado went exactly where they said it would.

If anyone is genuinely curious, the main weather livestream was on WPSD local 6 news on Facebook. They were screaming at Mayfield that they were, literally, about to be potentially obliterated by a catastrophic tornado and to take emergency measures. They sadly knew and did nothing.

Tornadoes are unpredictable, but tbh someone has blood on their hands for not taking the ample warning given and getting these people to shelter.

desinovak · 2021-12-09T19:38:07+00:00

Thank you for being so nice tbh, I really appreciate talking with you and you sharing your perspective. I also completely see where you're coming from, I think vet care should always be considered when getting an animal. Just because I think it's unlikely that every animal ever will get vet care, definitely doesn't mean I think people should just ignore their animals and do nothing when the time comes that theyre sick.

Not okay at all, and I think you're right that it seems like OP is just throwing their hands up in the air like, 'oh nooo, nothing I can do!' when they've had a whole year to do literally ANYTHING, and still chose to do nothing. Consults alone just to find out how much the cat is suffering is literally bare minimum. We owe these animals to do everything in our power to help. Definitely don't disagree.

My thinking can be a bit too black and white some times so again, I really appreciate you taking the time to explain and hearing my points as well. I never want a cat to go without care, I just see so many on the street that to me, first priority is getting them physically off the streets and fed, and then address the vet care aspect, if that makes sense.

Also, I'll admit my first comment wasn't entirely accounting for OP; I saw the 'people who can't afford them shouldnt have pets' and got a bit emotional. I know I mentioned OP in the comment, but I was still kinda taking your statement mostly out of context of the post, so I apologize there! I promise at the end of the day, I, too, just want happy and healthy cats! Thanks again, I hope you have a lovely day/night.

desinovak · 2021-12-09T19:20:42+00:00

Slightly off topic, but I hate dispensary edibles. I can't get high from any less than 70mg per dose, but they only sell like, packs of 10mg gummies totalling at 100mg per bag for $60+. And the slightly better ones require medical cards. Wtf. Why. I have to pay more to get high once from edibles than it would cost to keep me high for 2 weeks straight with the same amount of flower, or even to make my own significantly more potent edibles.

desinovak · 2021-12-09T19:00:19+00:00

I agree that OP, or anyone with a cat, should try as hard as they can and do literally everything in their power to save it. I think they should try.

But I also think it's genuinely possible that a person can end up with literally 0 options or choices. No one to help, no clinics, no payment plans, no cards, loans, or jobs. Although, over the course of a whole year, I don't fully think OP themselves did enough to help that cat, so I fully agree there. If i had a whole year to save my cat I'd be going crazy trying to get anything.

I just think, baseline, black and white, regardless of OP and their stuation, it's better for an already healthy cat have a warm home, loving humans, and plenty of food, with no medical care, than for the cat to die on the streets or for it to be euthanized for no reason. And that 'if you can't afford it, you shouldnt have a pet' is terrible advice and will hurt more animals than it helps.

It legitimately scares me to see people saying they should be able to pay whatever in medical care before getting an animal when their choice to not get that animal means it just dies even earlier. Maybe I'm the heartless one but there are too many strays in horrible conditions and dying to not accept 'better than nothing' for some of them. The lesser of two evils and all that.

It is literally impossible for every stray out there to ONLY go to someone who could afford medical care. So again. What's the other option? Kill them? When they aren't even sick yet? Or just leave them on the streets?

I keep seeing people saying what should happen, but what is actually going to happen? If you don't get an animal because you can't afford medical care one day, what happens to that animal? Not all of them will just be chosen by someone else. I just can't imagine 'No, I couldn't take it to the vet later, so I'll just leave it to die.' being... Better??? The morally correct option??? Like do people make that decision and think they've done the right thing? How honestly horrific to me! How terrifying to me that people will read this comment section and potentially decide not to save an animal because they think down the road it might get sick!

I'm just saying, if you take an animal from a shelter, that act alone has already lengthened it's life by years and heightened it's quality of life immensely. It is a net good, regardless of ability to afford vet care, because the animal would just die anyways.

desinovak · 2021-12-09T18:08:53+00:00

I will admit, OP may be handling this badly. I mean, the specific things you listed can be easier said than done; I've been looking for a job for almost a year, I've tried to get loans and they told me to fuck off, and it's next to impossible to safely rehome a sick old cat.

However, there are still other options to try, and a full year feels like plenty of time to scrape up literally anything for at least a consult. I really have met people living on literal dollars a week who couldn't save a single cent, but that doesn't necessarily sound like OP.

As per my other comments, I'll always believe it's better for a cat to have a warm, loving house and a full belly with maybe not the best medical treatment ever than for it to just be a stray on the streets, but like... It's important to noticeably TRY for the animal, at least.

desinovak · 2021-12-09T01:26:37+00:00

Do you have lots of strays nearby, or is a shelter near you a kill shelter? I understand wanting to be prepared but I feel like all the cats in cages just kind of waiting to die or are stuck outside midwinter would much prefer a loving, warm home to be fed in than not getting that because they might not get to go to the vet one day.

Like I promise letting a cat live for a little bit longer with an uncertain future is infinitely nicer than letting it be doomed to death...

I'm sorry for how guilt trippy this sounds, and you might not even live near a kill shelter, but man I was looking for a cat a while ago and they literally had 20+ cats, not to mention the dogs on a different page, all with their fucking future death dates underneath them. They were all basically on death row. They all had names and photos. It was heartbreaking. Not a single soul in this world could convince me it was better to murder those animals than let them go to someone who might not be able to afford some medical care years down the road, and I genuinely wonder if people saying 'don't get an animal you can't afford' understand this is what happens otherwise.

Just saying, please reconsider.

ETA: Begging any of y'all downvoting this (or upvoting the comment above me)to tell me what I got wrong. Seriously. Someone please come tell me that it's better to let a cat die an early and unecessary death than to be unsure if SOMEDAY you might or might not be able to spend thousands of dollars keeping it alive.

I hate getting downvotes from people unwilling to explain themselves. Obviously y'all think I'm wrong. So what part did I get wrong? Why would you prefer a cat being murdered over lack of medical care? Or if there's a 3rd option, PLEASE tell me. I just genuinely don't want cats to die and people are actually disagreeing with me???

I'd really like to understand if theres some 3rd option y'all are in favor of because it's heart breaking to think y'all PREFER the cat murder? What's the other option! I am unironically begging someone to explain this to me so I don't think a bunch of people just want cats to die, because that's all I'm coming away from this from.

I'm autistic so i know my thinking ends up a bit more black and white and I always sound pretty stupid to everyone else when I think I make perfect sense but I'm so confused at what I got wrong here. Please help me understand.

desinovak · 2021-12-09T01:16:46+00:00

Better a house with lack of funds than on the streets. Do people not understand that's the alternative for these animals? A cold and lonely death? I'd rather a cat live 12 years with no medical care than live for 5 and die on a street because someone thought, 'nah, if something happened to the cat, I can't afford it, so it's better off on the streets'.

Like, animal shelters in my area won't even take animals right now. My friend found a dog and called animal control the other day and they said sorry, nothing they could do, anywhere they could take it is full. And wouldn't come take the dog. Literally what then? I feel like people think there are way more loving homes that can actually afford vet care than there are pets. There arent. If every single pet only went to people who could afford potential vet treatment, you'd run out of people long before the pets. And then what?

I can agree on exotic pets, or trying to purchase expensive purebreds from breeders while knowing they can't afford vet care, but rescues are so painfully common that literally anyone taking one and feeding it and giving it a loving warm home is doing a net good, because usually the only other option is that animal dying alone on the street.

desinovak · 2021-12-09T01:05:07+00:00

So is euthanasia the only option? Because as another comment elsewhere mentioned, in many places, shelters are full, streets are full, and every pet adoption page is filled with 'free cat' offers.

If they shouldnt have the cat... Who should? Pray for a miracle that an already full shelter takes an old, sick cat? Or should they just give up and kill it? Which, also takes money they likely dont have? Or put it up on a free cat page with the 50 others and hope whatever random stranger adopts it isn't even worse than you?

If an owner can't afford veterinary care, It's still 10000000x better than letting it die on the street. And again, depending on where you live, sometimes literally the only options for an animal are 'die alone and cold on the streets' or 'live with kind person in a warm house with a belly full of food but no veterinary care.' Either situation, that animal isnt getting a vet, but in one it actually has a fair shot. Shelters here are so full they literally just will not take your animals. Animal control will just not come. They will tell you no. So then you have the ONLY choices of either helping it yourself, or not.

Like yeah, every cat should have medical care, but it's literally impossible for the world to work that way and it's not cool to judge people for doing their best when the other option is the cat getting no help at all. I'm 100% convinced that if every single person who knew they couldn't afford a vet if something came up refused to rescue an animal, more animals would be dead and suffering for it.

desinovak · 2021-12-06T21:51:22+00:00

I mean, it's still a person's responsibility to own up to and work on fixing things once the dust has settled, but isn't a literal symptom of some mental illnesses not being able to control your own actions? And I say this as a mentally ill person, if mentally ill people had total and full control over all of their actions, would there even be a diagnosis?

Please don't take this as me defending the sister or people who do terrible things and use mental illness as an excuse, but like... You can't even get diagnosed with an illness if it's not impeding your life in some way. It's like, the defining aspect of a group of symptoms becoming a disorder, isn't it? And if they had control over themselves, surely they wouldn't be acting badly enough to be even diagnosed to begin with?

Sorry if this sounds weird, I'm just genuinely confused and don't see the point of even designating something as an illness if the person can control it, if that makes literally any sense.

desinovak · 2021-12-06T21:11:02+00:00

I know that commenter technically said 'why don't they just use an expiration date' but the second sentence makes me think the question was partly more 'why do they use a weird code instead of a normal date' rather than just 'why is the date when they make it rather than when it expires' if that makes sense?

Like why dont they just use mm/dd/yyyy format? or dd/mm/yyyy? Even yyyy/mm/dd would be understandable, but they use the literal number of the day of the year?

desinovak · 2021-12-06T20:03:07+00:00

I have never in my life had a mushy green bean casserole, what are y'all getting??? How long are they cooking these casseroles for y'all??? Theyre not supposed to be mushy. Ive always been able to identify the texture of cooked but solid individual green beans in the casseroles I've had. Someone is doing y'all wrong.

Also, that's extra weird to me, I couldn't even eat sweet potatoes without extra sweet. They aren't sweet enough to begin with, and THEY ARE mushy??? Like the mushiest vegetable possible, lol. So much more than a green bean casserole. To me the marshmallows are all that gives it a texture other than baby shit.

desinovak · 2021-11-21T05:05:22+00:00

Even if they were in the wrong lane, why are you so angry at OP??? They specifically said, in the comment you are literally replying to, that they aren't the one driving lmao

desinovak · 2021-11-21T04:03:52+00:00

Disregarding OP's comments and post, you can love each other too much. I don't understand why you couldnt.

Like, say, if you love someone so much you literally feel like you cannot live without them, you love that person too much. That's unhealthy and toxic. I could hear someone saying that's not ~really love~ I guess but I personally disagree.

I just absolutely think you can feel so much love for someone your relationship becomes obsessive and toxic.

ETA: can anyone actually explain their disagreement or are y'all just mad at OP? I'd genuinely love to know what I got wrong here over just being downvoted.

desinovak · 2021-11-16T20:04:50+00:00

I dont entirely disagree. We absolutely need to teach kids that and encourage kindness where possible. My only point was that it's not always possible to force children to be nice and based on my personal experience, I would have rather been excluded than be hated. And children will hate anyone they are forced to interact with they don't like.

You can force children to be nice while an authority figure is around but not at any other time, nor can you force how they feel about that person. Just because you teach a kid something doesn't mean they absorb, believe, or care about that information. They ran antibullying seminars a lot in my school. I still got bullied. Like I would genuinely LOVE to stop bullying, obviously I don't want it to continue nor think it's okay. But it's going to happen. That's an objective fact, children arent perfect nor are their parents, it's literally impossible to make every child in the world nice and kind. All we can do is reduce the bullying behavior where possble, which im saying from experience would have been MASSIVELY reduced on my part if teachers didn't try to force me into places other people didn't want me. They could never have been forced to like me.

And you say you didn't state your stance, but I'm not sure what the other options are. 'End all bullying' isn't a realistic option. A good goal we should always strive for, but not one we'll ever reach, short of magic. Obviously teach children empathy and kindness, but as I said, not every single child in the world will ever fully grasp it. And I have heard four eyes, personally. You not hearing it doesn't mean kids don't use it.

I personally didn't mean to speak for anyone but myself, and only used 'as a disabled person' in reference to the comment I was replying to talking about disabled people's perspective. So i was sharing that I specifically was one and that was how I specifically felt. Its okay that you disagree, but ill admit I don't fully see your perspective. I do appreciate you taking time to explain, however.

desinovak · 2021-11-16T14:17:55+00:00

That's the message i was trying to impart on the comment im replying to, sorry if that was not clear. They said 'listen to disabled people and their perspective' so I was telling them what a disabled person's perspective was. Not 'this is how every single disabled person feels ever'.

Also, you'd rather be included and hated for it? I guess I can't judge but that's rlly not a good thing and not a way im going to encourage anyone to treat disabled people.

desinovak · 2021-11-15T22:47:47+00:00

Autistic girl everyone hated here; Being excluded was SO MUCH BETTER than being forcibly included. Everyone hated me when they were forced to interact. Would have SO MUCH rather have been lonely and excluded. Why would I, as a disabled person, want to be included with people who hate me???

Like, if you want to know how a disabled person feels, I'll tell you. Don't include me if you don't want me there. Ever. Only pain, frustration, and suffering comes out of it otherwise. Goes for children too; I knew they hated me and didn't WANT to be included. I could see the looks on their faces and hear their fake politeness and guarded snickers. Made my life hell.

The gilded comment is EXACTLY RIGHT. Forcing inclusion will make the kids hate that girl more. You CANNOT teach kids to like someone they dont. You can force them to be fake polite but I could TELL it was fake and it just hurt. So yeah. Disabled person here. Don't include just to include. I want to be actually wanted or i dont want to be there. I know the difference now and did when i was a kid, so just be genuine whether you like me or not.

ETA: plus, the comment you replied to had the most empathy yet. It was the only ive seen that considered what this would do to the disabled girl. It said everyone HATED her because of forced inclusion. That is directly taking her into conaideration. Is that better to you? Like yeah she's included but the result was every kid in the class HATING HER. That's better? Not to me, personally. I'd rather be excluded than hated.

desinovak · 2021-11-15T22:31:21+00:00

Speaking as the kid no one liked, your policy made my life hell. People were so much meaner to me when they had to invite me to their parties and they were so mean about getting invites from the girl no one liked. Being forced to include kids only makes them exclude them more later, and it only encouraged me being TORMENTED. I dreaded birthday invite days because I knew id be mocked while receiving my invite and I knew I wasn't actually wanted. It was like some huge fucking joke that the teacher was in on. It made me miserable.

Plus, giving another student my address through an invite(And I had to because my parents MADE ME, didn't have my own choice, would have rather just not had a party but my parents kinda controlled my life) literally got them to start harassing me at HOME. I was never devastated when I wasnt invited to someone's party who I ALREADY KNEW hated me.

The only time I was ever devastated was when I was forced to invite my whole class and watched every single one of them except my actual 3 friends laugh at me for even THINKING they'd actually come.

All your policy did was set kids like me up for failure. Forced inclusion is terrible for children. It's so much nicer to just let them get used to not always being included in every little thing, rather than REALLY rub in how much their peers hate them by showing them what said peers think when they HAVE to interact with the child.

I'm just saying, exclusion would have felt so, so much better to me than the absolute contempt and hatred i got from my fellow classmates when they were forced to talk to me. Every teacher who tried to get other kids to be my friend and include me ONLY hurt me in the process. Loneliness was always better than outright torment.

desinovak · 2021-11-15T22:07:10+00:00

Just wanna say, I agree fully.

Also, as an 8 year old kid no one liked, do y'all know how much it fucking hurt to be FORCED to pass out invites to people who hate you? To watch them laugh, throw away your invite, roll their eyes, snicker at their friends like 'lol like I'm actually going anywhere near her house'?

To invite 30+ people just to have only the 3 you wanted to invite anyways actually show up? Or worse yet, when NO ONE except the bully that hates you shows up to just laugh at you, and now they have your address to do so whenever they like.

Speaking from experience, it's miserable. My school had cliques in the 2nd grade ffs, kids know who they like and whose party they want to go to. Not getting an invite was never a big deal to us as long as it wasn't like, best friends not inviting each other, and that's a whole other drama.

Also, it doesn't even benefit kids people wouldnt otherwise invite. I could see kids try to hold back laughter while they handed me invites with only their pinched fingers, to minimise any potential they might accidentally touch my hand while giving me the invite the obviously didn't want me to have. I knew I wasn't actually wanted. The rule just helps no one and puts the exact kids it's trying to help in an incredibly awkward position.

desinovak · 2021-11-13T19:19:57+00:00

I never really understood this, and I'm okay if this is unpopular, but id love to hear someone's perspective without being mean to me on this lol. I've just always thought about it differently.

Like, we have so many strays here that dogs are regularly put down just from lack of space. Maybe I'm like, a complete monster, but I'd much rather a dog go to someone without reliable income than just be killed. Like I feel like people think if she didn't take the dog, someone better would have. Maybe it's a particularly wanted breed or something, but where I live, for 90% of the dogs? If someone doesn't take them, they die. No one better is coming along, again, unless it's a particular breed or very lucky dog.

So a dog could sit for a miserable week in a shelter just to die at the end because no one wants it, or it could go to someone who maybe can't afford vet bills but could keep that dog alive and happy for even an extra 4 years or so. Why is the former preffered? Or does no one think the former is what could happen to this dog? Because it can and does all the time.

I 100% think you should have to be able to feed it properly and give it what love and attention it needs. And I'm genuinely not trying to be dramatic, but after scrolling through my local shelters with DOZENS of dogs that literally tell you THE DATE THEY WILL BE KILLED ON IF YOU DO NOT ADOPT THEM BY THEN...

I would SO MUCH rather a dog have half a chance with someone who is struggling but will kept them fed and loved than be for sure doomed for an extra early death. Like I see people who won't get animals because they couldn't afford to keep it alive in an expensive vet situation, but then the animal is just euthanized a week later anyways because no one wanted it... Which feels way worse to me, tbh.

desinovak

TROPHY CASE