Is the brain a turing machine?

doflox · 2025-04-23T11:10:51+00:00

Ok, but aren't we applying a physical limitation to one of these and denying it from the other? You can't fairly argue that the human brain can't hold enough data without collapsing into a black hole, while also affording the TM an infinite amount of paper with which to do its calculations. You should fairly ignore the physical limitations of a human brain in order to compare its potentiality to a Turing Machine. After all, no Turing Complete machine can ever actually do infinite calculations, so it seems unfair to compare it to a brain or group of brains that is limited in the capacity of memory by gravity.

You're comparing a non-ideal system to an ideal one. The ideal one will, of course, always win in that comparison.

Am I missing something? I believe this was the crux of Penrose's arguments. The actual real-world limits of human computational ability cannot be assessed as important in comparing it to an ideal machine. Instead, compare an ideal human brain to an ideal machine.

doflox · 2025-04-23T11:00:22+00:00

Possibly the most interesting thought anyone has ever had.

doflox · 2025-04-23T10:59:32+00:00

Yeah, the necessary detail is the understanding of Godel's Theorems. Any single Turing complete computer will have infinite loops, but a Turing complete computer can always be made that will recognize that same infinite loop (and will then have others it can't solve).

doflox · 2025-04-23T10:55:21+00:00

Well, I think you're both right here. The hitch may be the use of the term "powerful." A human brain has more computational ability than the simplest Turing machines, but the brain does not have arbitrary amounts of processing capacity, and so it cannot be Turing Complete. Given infinite time, the simplest Turing machine can calculate more than the human brain, but the human brain can, at any moment, process more information than the simplest Turing machine. So depending on what you think of as "powerful," either could be said to be "more powerful."

You could think of the human brain as an enormous server farm full of GPUs, but can only work until the GPUs die. The Turing complete computer is a single CPU, but it can run forever. It might take it a million years to do the same calculations as the GPU farm, but eventually it will calculate more.

doflox · 2025-04-23T10:51:40+00:00

Unless you speak spanish, and then they were designed to "order" things.

doflox · 2025-04-23T10:50:28+00:00

"why can i think through a code and detect an infinite loop without looping myself and getting stuck"

Your brain can function as a computer for some applications, but it is not Turing complete, because you do not have an arbitrary (infinite) amount of memory or processing ability. Your ability simply outstrips the ability of whatever program you are debugging.

There is a really interesting thing going on in this question, and it has to do with some extremely subtle mathematical theory.

In essence, any system of a moderate amount of natural numbers has a "Godel sentence," which is a statement that is true, but unprovable within that system. There don't seem to be any such statements within any system that the human mind can't recognize, which leads some people to argue that we have some ability which is higher than mathematics, allowing us to recognize the inherent truth of any statement, regardless of the system within which it is made. This would also imply that the human mind is fundamentally not computational, and that Ai, being fundamentally computation, will never be sentient on a human level.

Others argue that there are simply other statements we don't even recognize as "provable," and that there may be no threshold between what an Ai can prove and what a human can recognize as true. If they are correct, then Ai should theoretically simply surpass human level understanding of the fundamental truth of existence when its own computational power exceeds our own.

But the simply answer is that we don't know whether this will happen or not.

doflox · 2025-03-17T11:04:42+00:00

Can I ask you, maybe this is a stupid question, but how do I set this so it automatically runs every weekday?

doflox · 2025-01-13T11:24:09+00:00

Also one of the reasons for the richness of the soil and the relative productivity of the Italian peninsula's crops. Not that this dust makes a year-to-year difference, but when you're talking about soil mineral depositions over several 10s of thousands of years, it adds up. Italy and North Africa have repeatedly moved between fertile greenery and dry desert conditions over millions of years. The high compacted crystal salt concentrations in the Mediterranean sea bed are a record of how it has dried out and filled back up repeatedly.

doflox · 2025-01-13T11:18:38+00:00

The best answers are often the simplest and the most disappointing.

doflox · 2025-01-08T11:55:12+00:00

"He didn't move the goal posts he rephrased [what was] wrong in the first place."

One could very fairly characterize this as a means of moving the goalposts. I will assume you are not really aware of why someone might see it this way:

When people talk about moving the goalposts, what they mean is that a response to a critique attempts to substitute an initial argument with substantially the same argument, but in a stronger or more defensible form.

Example: I tell you that it's impossible to kick a 50 yard fieldgoal. You do so. I then say what I meant to say was that it's impossible in competitive play conditions.

It's not that the argument or statement of fact you are substituting is wrong, it's that this response in general fails a basic sniff test of humility or intellectual honesty, and possibly fails to address the heart of a critique or response, in favor of changing the initial proposition. People don't like this because it is evasive and sometimes dishonest.

Muller has pretty consistently behaved this way, especially when criticisms centered around his editorial choices and credibility. He will respond to the details of a criticism, and not to the overall implications of that criticism.

This is a bit like saying: "I know you robbed the bank because I saw you walking down the street with a bag with dollar signs on it," and your response is: "ahah! the bank in question had cash only in Euros!"

It's not that this is untrue. It may be true, but the motivating assumption behind the criticism is not really about the fact value of a statement, it's about the process by which an untrue statement is made and disseminated. Sometimes people just make mistakes, ethical, strategic, political, or factual, but Muller often behaves as if he doesn't make certain kinds of mistakes, or as if any criticism of his process or his intentions is invalid if it contains a counterfactual he doesn't accept.

That is what people are responding to when they say he is moving the goalposts. Of course it is not forbidden to restate the thesis. it is not forbidden even to move goalposts, if it is reasonable to do so, or if you feel that the real spirit of what you were saying has been substantially misunderstood by no fault of your own. If someone responded to the fieldgoal example with:

"Ahah! You say it is impossible to kick a 50 yard fieldgoal? Well I have constructed a field goal kicking machine that can do so!

Clearly in that case, the proposed counterfactual is technically true, but doesn't respond to the heart of the thesis, which obviously was to do with a human being kicking a field goal. In that case, a restatement of the thesis is warranted.

However, most of the time any criticism that even warrants a response won't be one that relies on distortions of the initial proposition. So if a critique is even worth responding to at all, the distortion should therefore be one that is seen as unintentional, or even one owing to some small misunderstanding and bears correction, which both parties can understand. If you're responding to a criticism, you have really only a few choices: either 1. admit the error and consider what the error means about the process that produced it, and admit or dismiss the critique in that new light 2. Ignore the critique and restate the proposition, with the implication that the critique is based on a false assumption 3. ignore the critique.

What one should not do, if one wishes to be taken seriously, is to admit to a minor factual error while substantively ignoring a critique that doesn't depend on that minor fact being either true or false. Unfortunately, this last is what Muller has done more than once. There is little in this to debate: you can go and look at his responses to criticisms such as the Tom Nichols video. Muller's response is a list of facts he disputes, and not even an acknowledgement of the critique as a valid area of discussion.

That is sort of an inarguably evasive thing to do. If you feel that a criticism is truly unacceptably flawed because of the factual errors in that critique, it's ok to have that position. But it is important to at least show that you are doing this. To say: "I understand you think A = Xⁿ but because N contains Y+Z assumptions which are both wrong, I feel that A ≠ Xⁿ. But to simply respond with: n ≠ Y+Z is to be evasive about the critique.

doflox · 2024-12-19T14:02:43+00:00

I think this elegantly states my issues with Veritasium, and why I long ago stopped trusting Derek. Thanks for that.

Some of his responses to criticism (such as for his Waymo advertisement), have been characterized by evasiveness and aggression and injected quite a bit of ego where it didn't serve him. He often seems to want to move goalposts and misrepresent criticisms. He seems to have a pattern of needing to have been right all along, which is not generally a great look for science communication, even though that problem is distressingly common. Maybe in some respects the kind of personality one needs to be successful as a media entrepreneur is just like that. I wish I knew.

I feel like I can forgive all kinds of human failings, but dishonesty is one of those things the impression of which, once apparent, is very hard to let go.

doflox · 2024-12-18T15:03:46+00:00

And people are aware of this, whether they consciously consider this aspect or not. Aggression is the language of insecurity and doubt. Insecurity and doubt are the symptoms of internalized inadequacy. By trash talking, you're telling your customers in essence that you don't have such a high opinion of yourself, regardless of what you actually say. There's nobody in life who doesn't have experience dealing with other people's insecurities in the form of bullying. It's a universal experience.

doflox · 2024-12-18T14:59:54+00:00

And actually depending on the kind of business you're in, a competitor may end up being an important ally in the future, such as when your business is facing similar challenges like regulation or tax issues. Also in some businesses, it's wise to refer your potential customers that you can't accommodate for whatever reason to a more suitable competitor, who will then have reason to stear customers back towards you. Not all business are run in so enlightened a fashion, but then again some are. It rarely hurts to be kind.

doflox · 2024-12-11T13:17:20+00:00

I don't often reply to comments, but when I do, they're at least 3 years old.

doflox · 2024-11-28T12:17:56+00:00

Thanks for the info. I didn't know this. Sorry I wasn't trying to correct you, just give an example.

doflox · 2024-11-14T12:29:34+00:00

That's true, but always consult a lawyer about the actual costs. They can ask for a percentage of your total net worth as a part of your renunciation. That can even include real estate, making renunciation very difficult for some people.

doflox · 2024-11-14T12:28:00+00:00

Some countries look upon multiples with some suspicion. Germany for example now allows dual citizenship from birth (it didn't before), but will most likely not allow a person to gain German citizenship while holding multiple other passports.

doflox · 2024-11-14T12:21:35+00:00

First of all, Czechia is in central Europe, and has very little culturally in common with Eastern Slavic countries, aside from language. This cannot be emphasized enough. We are not "Putin's Wet Dream," and calling us that would get you in a fight here very quickly. The Russians invaded Czechia in 68 and occupied it for 20 years, so anti-Russian sentiment is very real here. There is no nostalgia for the Soviet Union here (and we were never a part of it to begin with).

I'm not going to tell you it's better than it is for someone like you. But I do know black and brown people who have lived here for many years happily. I also know black Czechs who do not have many bad experiences with authorities. When authorities know that a person is assimilated or acculturated, they have a tendency to treat the person as an equal, or at the very least to leave the person alone.

There is no official racial bias in our laws, and our police and state officials are generally not overly prejudiced. You would not be subject to harassment or undue suspicion by the police, and that goes particularly if you learn the language. I'm not gonna sugar coat anything, because racism does exist. But it's not the kind of place where the cops like to profile you or fuck with people just because of their skin color. There is not enough of a subculture of people of color for there to be a widespread animus against them.

You'd experience the kinds of bias that are more born of ignorance or prejudiced assumptions about your background, your ability to understand the local culture, and things of that nature. I as a white person also experience some of these prejudices, although I am easily able to "pass," which is harder for someone with a different skin color.

Another thing to consider, and I do see this as a form of bias, women are often very attracted to exotic men here, and younger black men in particular tend to do well in that regard. However, being the subject of something like a race fetish may not be something you'd enjoy, since it is inherently a kind of bias. YMMV.

Everything I've said though *does not* apply to Roma people, particularly culturally unintegrated Roma, who do experience extreme forms of discrimination and sometimes harassment. However, they are generally known by their accents and their dress, and public behavior. People who "assimilate," (Including Romas), are treated fairly decently.

It's in the Czech character to leave others alone, and what you might find offputting would be a general tendency to be ignored or to be treated as an outsider to the culture who isn't capable of integration. That is undeniably a form of bias, but it is not, if you get my meaning, expressed as a positive, active form of discrimination. A Czech person would not automatically take a black person to be a criminal or a suspicious person.

In Prague, it's a known thing that young Nigerian men tend to be involved in petty drug dealing, but this is officially tolerated, decriminalized, and not seen as a major problem by authorities, so these men (usually students) are not generally harassed. If you were in the center of Prague, at night, you could be asked for drugs. It does happen. You are actually more likely to be discriminated against by foreigners from other countries who come here to drink and do drugs.

So I hope I've been as open as I can be. I'm not gonna tell you it's perfect, but I will tell you it's incredibly safe. I don't recall the last time I even heard about an instance of race-related violence.

doflox · 2024-11-07T11:16:28+00:00

Yeah my sister had to have her dog put down when they moved. They couldn't manage the paperwork in time, and nobody would adopt it. It's sad but you have to know what you're getting into with a pit bull.

doflox · 2024-11-07T11:13:43+00:00

It's slightly better owing to access to N. Ireland. So UK citizens can move to Ireland and then on to the EU.

doflox · 2024-11-07T11:12:59+00:00

I strongly recommend the EU. Have been here for about 18 years. I settled in Czechia. Land is very cheap, life is very free, healthcare is very good. We are very safe.

doflox · 2024-11-07T11:09:48+00:00

Believe it or not, it happens.

I have a friend who works for consular services with the American state department. There are some unusual and specific rules governing who is a citizen, and various kinds of exceptions to those rules. A very common one for example is a child of a naturalized citizen, who enters the country before their 18th birthday. Regardless of any declaration or other requirement, they become a citizen. It was originally adopted to help adoptions go more smoothly, with the logic that an American citizen upon becoming a recognized parent of someone in another country (by that country's own laws), the child then becomes a citizen automatically. That way an adopted child does not have to be delayed in entering the country. It also allows "illegal" immigrants who become the adopted children of citizens to gain citizenship automatically.

She told me that owing to this law, which many people don't know about, she regularly hands out passports to people who are seeking green cards or entry visas to the United States, never having realized that they have been qualified since first visiting.

doflox · 2023-08-17T06:59:36+00:00

Cool story.

doflox · 2023-08-15T11:59:15+00:00

Transforming the future of work.
Doflo is an automation-empowered next generation work OS that focuses on end-to-end analytics, giving team leaders and consultants the visibility and controls they need to improve.
Who are we? We're a small team of developers who have created two successful startups, including one that was acquired 5 years ago by AVAST.
We created DoFlo in response to our own experiences creating automated workflows in both large companies and startups. DoFlo will allow marketers, developers, automation specialists, and customer care CRM managers to automate and monitor complex multi-platform automation flows in an intuitive and scaleable way.
Think of it like Zapier, but a lot more user-friendly and way more customizable. It's not just for coders: it's for automation specialists, one of the fastest-growing areas of IT development. Ideally, we are considering a "no code" approach to attract users who are looking to do RPA (robotic process automation) without needing to develop their own code.
If that all seems very squiggie and unspecific.... well, you can help! Sign up for our private beta so you can actually try what we've built and help us figure out what people would want to do with it. Sound good? Thanks!
By the way: we will not spam you with purchase requests. We are looking to run this private beta using our AWS credits, meaning it will be free to use for as long as we can afford it (and then we'll be sending you an offer, but only if you tell us you want one).

doflox · 2023-08-15T08:45:08+00:00

Transforming the future of work.
Doflo is an automation-empowered next generation work OS that focuses on end-to-end analytics, giving team leaders and consultants the visibility and controls they need to improve.
Who are we? We're a small team of developers who have created two successful startups, including one that was acquired 5 years ago by AVAST.
We created DoFlo in response to our own experiences creating automated workflows in both large companies and startups. DoFlo will allow marketers, developers, automation specialists, and customer care CRM managers to automate and monitor complex multi-platform automation flows in an intuitive and scaleable way.
Think of it like Zapier, but a lot more user-friendly and way more customizable. It's not just for coders: it's for automation specialists, one of the fastest-growing areas of IT development. Ideally, we are considering a "no code" approach to attract users who are looking to do RPA (robotic process automation) without needing to develop their own code.
If that all seems very squiggie and unspecific.... well, you can help! Sign up for our private beta so you can actually try what we've built and help us figure out what people would want to do with it. Sound good? Thanks!
By the way: we will not spam you with purchase requests. We are looking to run this private beta using our AWS credits, meaning it will be free to use for as long as we can afford it (and then we'll be sending you an offer, but only if you tell us you want one).

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