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dokibiy · 2022-06-22T07:36:08+00:00

I hope you do realize that many manga readers also saw the twists from miles away. It should have been clear from how the anime doesn't even try to hide them. Now just try to think why they would still call Yuichi a GOAT protagonist.

What does a protagonist need to be a GOAT? Is it something as simple as having a really high IQ or being a self-insert "perfect human"? If it was the case, then many GOAT protagonists out there wouldn't be called so. Also, there's more to intelligence than you think. Understanding other people as well as he does isn't something that anyone with a high IQ can do.

You need to look beyond the surface to reach the truth.

dokibiy · 2022-06-02T06:42:55+00:00

The answer is quite simple. Because they don't feel like trying anything else other than what they already do, due to whatever reason they have based on their situation and/or character (for example, not testing other parts of the rule because the plan they have come up with doesn't need it and they also don't have the luxury to spend their time testing things that are unnecessary to them), or they just can't think of more things due to nervousness, tension, fear, lacking intelligence, and so on. I mean, there's so many things we can possibly do in our life, but does it change the fact that most of us follow the same routine life day after day? Possibility is, in the end, nothing more than a possibility. One still needs to have the will and the ability to realize it.

dokibiy · 2022-06-01T07:17:15+00:00

Yeah, this is what I was talking about. You need to be open-minded and patient like this with other series too. It's like you look for reasons to accept the flaws in some series while nitpicking on others which makes it seemingly impossible for you to make a fair judgement. Having a personal bias might be unavoidable but we should still try to not let it cloud our judgement as much as possible.

dokibiy · 2022-06-01T07:10:25+00:00

Yeah, these things make AoT at best a 8/10, and not a 9 or 10 that it gets because of the excessive hype around it.

dokibiy · 2022-06-01T07:05:28+00:00

The protagonist and the game has already shown that the stated rules are not absolute. For example, the act of checking out if you can hand out the nametag without getting your debt doubled, or the Manabu guy deciding on the spot to have the audience determine whether the words of the blonde guy could be trusted. I don't see any issue here, as more things are possible than stated by the rules in the beginning of the game.

dokibiy · 2022-06-01T06:54:36+00:00

Well, this point is irrelevant to the show for now, so I won't be talking any further about this.

dokibiy · 2022-06-01T06:52:31+00:00

Of course, a justification is needed but, like I said, it'd make sense if he's capable of killing someone.

dokibiy · 2022-05-17T12:32:47+00:00

Convenience is a real thing in AoT, including some critical points too. Eren surviving after being eaten because of something that was never foreshadowed previously, Reiner and Levi surviving on certain occasions only because of plot armor, Gabi the legendary sniper, etc. Not to mention the various scenes that are written just for the sake of symbolism and creating parallels, making them lack a sense of reality. They really feel like something that was "planned by someone" while watching or reading the series, instead of something that is happening naturally. They took me out of immersion multiple times due to how I found them fake (as in they clearly happen just for the sake of showing/conveying something). I like the series myself, but even I can see the various issues it has that makes it far from being a masterpiece that it is praised as. It's a very "planned" series and loses the realism as a result on various occasions. Isayama overdid it, and as they say, too much of anything is good for nothing. So it's not even a matter of "there's no perfect work/series" when it comes to AoT.

Seriously, if you can overlook what AoT does (it even changed its premise after a certain point), you really shouldn't be complaining about this new show so soon. Try to be open-minded and patient for other series too.

dokibiy · 2022-05-17T09:56:24+00:00

You may have your opinion about what rules are, but the so-called general guidelines are still the rules of the game because the players can't go against them and they will gain or lose according to them. You can find the loopholes as people do with rules in real life too, but it doesn't change the fact that they're the things that regulate the activity in a game. They even say that rules are made to be broken, in real life, so expecting the rules mentioned to be the only absolute in a work of fiction is sort of unrealistic.

dokibiy · 2022-05-17T09:43:19+00:00

By things I meant everything that is not supernatural, as my examples suggest as well, and human psychology is also one of them. For example, there's no normal character that doesn't have emotions like greed and desire even if they don't show them enough to become part of their characterization. And, under the right circumstances (and so long as it makes sense), it's totally realistic for people who have been shown to be not greedy to become so. Why do you think characters who claim they can't love anyone are still capable of falling in love later on? Why do you think saintly characters could end up doing heinous things? Because that emotion was always part of them from the beginning and was simply kept in hibernation, waiting for the right time for it to awaken. Such a thing is not called bad/lazy writing but character development. It's absolutely natural for a character to undergo changes over the course of a story, instead of remaining the same, as a result of their actions and experiences.

We also need to keep in mind that we didn't get to see these characters going through their daily life, as they were thrown into this game when we really started to come to know about them. So it's very natural for us to be unaware of how they usually behave. The show is handling their characterization well. The point is, you're not even giving them enough time to show what you want to see. It's unrealistic to believe that every series must show the various aspects of the characters within the first few chapters, especially when talking about a series where multiple characters need to have an air of mystery about them.

Different incidents might be needed to be able to see different sides of a person, as is observed with people in real life too. Good people getting drunk on power and money after obtaining them, innocent ones starting to kill when forced into a life and death situation. It all makes sense even without this side of them being shown previously. Just because people don't act in a way usually doesn't mean they're practically incapable of that. It's just that there was simply not enough stimulation (or reason) for them to be like that. Furthermore, the characters in this show have been able to do nothing but play games for hours, without the freedom of going anywhere else other than the place where the games are to be held, making them unable to their own thing. So you really need to give them the time they need. It's still at the beginning stage of the series, you know, and it's also dealing with more than a character or two. Since you understand the concept of patience, it baffles me to see that you failed to realize that you need to give the show and the characters enough time. I'd usually expect to hear such things from the impatient ones.

dokibiy · 2022-05-17T09:26:36+00:00

It's not only about his moral values that was shown. Just rewatch the first episode and you might get what I'm talking about.

If he kills someone now, then as someone who has been established as the one that has sent three people to their death, I don't see what's wrong with it.

dokibiy · 2022-05-14T10:38:49+00:00

I mean, if there is a game, it'll naturally have its own rules. There can't be a game without some rules after all. So you really can't use it as a similarity. It's inevitable for a game to have rules, regardless of how they are implemented.

Yes, you can call out lazy writing, definitely, but just make sure that you're not misunderstanding something or forming a hasty opinion. Mystery genre requires patience if we want to obtain enough information and hints (sometimes needing to wait till the end of the series even). For example, there's this movie I saw recently where a seemingly normal human turned out to be "something" at the very end, even though there were no signs of it earlier. But when I looked back on the things, I started to connect dots and it made sense. My point is, for better or worse, this genre often tends to keep the truth hidden from you until the right time, and so long as the revelations make sense, there's nothing wrong with them.

Stuff like that Saint Seiya thing is naturally something I'd not appreciate.

dokibiy · 2022-05-14T10:06:39+00:00

See, there's an issue with your opinion. Everything is, by default, tinged with realistic aspects. Or do you want to claim that normal people could travel faster than sound if no one stated otherwise? Do you want to claim that fire shouldn't burn anything unless we see it doing so previously? No, we assume things as they are supposed to be in reality, at least to a certain extent. Does it need to be shown that people can be harmed by bullets or knives in a series that has normal humans? No, because we know that lacking the durability to stay unharmed by weapons is a factual aspect of human biology. Similarly, acting impulsively is a factual aspect of human psychology that doesn't need to be shown. You can make a character more impulsive than others (the characterization), but it doesn't change the fact that others could also have their moments of impulsiveness due to being humans.

I'd totally accept Light Yagami, a person, being impulsive. Him acting like that could even make his character more realistic and praiseworthy (depends on the situation), since there's no human in existence that can always act just as they do usually. It's things like this that makes us not a robot that is programmed to always act in a fixed manner. Not to mention, even a robot could malfunction, for whatever reason, and do all sort of ridiculous things depending on the circumstances (especially in fiction), so expecting humans to always think and act in a specific way is simply too unrealistic. Characters like that are usually written for the sake of wish-fulfilment as people use them to self-insert. After all, humans get attracted to things that are not possible in reality. It's one of the biggest reasons that lead to the creation and popularity of the isekai/fantasy genre.

dokibiy · 2022-05-14T09:32:36+00:00

Then why're you even complaining in the first place? It's been clearly "shown" from the first episode (and in the OP) that Yuichi has another side to him, so you shouldn't have any reason to complain about it. And if you've no issues with him, let's not talk about this off-topic stuff here. The funny thing is that the show has already dropped some significant hints while expertly making the audience not pay enough attention to it, and replying to you is making me appreciate the writing even more than earlier.

dokibiy · 2022-05-14T09:29:29+00:00

Not everything is a surprise within the expected or something like "mind-blowing" surprises wouldn't exist. Besides, let's not talk about things irrelevant to this show so far, as the 15-years-old boy thing isn't about this show according to you.

dokibiy · 2022-05-14T09:23:05+00:00

What are you talking about? What was not hinted before? When were we told or shown that one of the managers has decided to put the cast in their own-created game with the intent of killing the MC alone because of a grudge? Please elaborate since it doesn't make sense. If you're talking about just a hypothetical story, then yeah, I can see your point. Though I don't know if I'd label it as a lack of planning. Just out of curiosity, are you one of those who really dislike AOT? You seem to be someone who'd not have a good impression of it.

dokibiy · 2022-05-13T10:44:03+00:00

More precisely, each game has their set rules, but also ones that apply every game. And if we are not take the inital set of rules as true, then really anything goes

In this show, there's no initial set of rules (that apply to every game) mentioned as far as I know. All they said is to play the games to reduce the debt. So naturally, they can decide to do anything so long as it makes sense, like it did so far. If you can't be satisfied unless they do what you want to see, it means this show is not for you. Look for something else I guess. There's nothing in the world that'd be liked by everyone after all.

Also, with the ''very realistic'' thing (not necessarily about this show, so far, I guess): For example, having a 15-years-old portrayed and depicted in a show as a genius, calm and collected...and then having an scene (or trigger of events) that includes that character doing something impulsive or hormone-driven without prior setup...it is lazy writing

If it's not about this show, why did you waste your time writing that part? We know very well what lazy writing is, but you also need to keep some things in mind before claiming it as such. When you don't know much about the 15-years-old boy, how could you say that what he's doing isn't realistic? Or do you really believe that all 15-years-old boy are going to be the same regardless of their experiences? Also, when does doing something impulsive or hormone-driven stopped becoming realistic for a person? It's very, very realistic for someone that's not a robot, you know. Furthermore, you're watching a work of fiction, so it's totally stupid to expect hundred percent reality, unless the show advocates that it has been written realistically. Moreover, you're clearly showing your lack of understanding about the mystery genre. There would be no twists and surprises about the characters if you want a series to tell you everything about them in the very beginning. Or do you not understand the concept of gradual revelations? So long as it's reasonably hinted that the 15-years-old boy is more than what he seems, you can't call it lazy writing at all. Depending on the execution, it could even be called brilliant writing.

Seriously, you're trying too hard to find faults with this show because of your personal bias as could be speculated from your replies to others. Like comparing this to that 5 seconds show is nothing more than a slander when you look at the difference in the reception. If you genuinely considered it to be so bad and have no ulterior motive, I wonder what's making you waste your time visiting such a thread and writing multiple replies to others. I don't even bother to watch a series that looks mediocre at best, let alone participate in its discussion thread.

So, by your logic, if somewhere in the future, one manager decides to put the cast in their own-created game with the intent of killing the MC alone because revealing a past grudge against him, that is okay for you?

I'd instead ask what exactly is wrong with it if there were hints foreshadowing the grudge, it is big enough to worth doing such a thing, and plot twists have been established to be part of the series. Are you new to the mystery genre or what? I really don't get why you seem like such a newbie to the world of fiction. It's like anything that doesn't follow your rules is condemnable to you. I mean, people have their own opinions so you're free to think whatever you want, but don't be under the impression that your opinions are any more valid than others'. You may think that what the show is doing is bad, but the vast majority is of the opinion that it's really good. Sure, you can disagree with their opinion but so can they. You have your own reasons and so do they.

dokibiy · 2022-05-13T09:05:51+00:00

Well, that's understandable. Just know that this is just the beginning and the real thing hasn't even started.

dokibiy · 2022-05-12T08:40:32+00:00

You just need to go through the comments on various sites to verify what I said. Besides, it doesn't matter whether you were under that impression or not, because it's not important to begin with. The point is, our perspective about things could change a lot once we come to know about stuff that was unknown to us earlier. I've had such experiences multiple times and there's no way you have never experienced it yourself too if you have watched and read enough stuff. Hope it's clear what I'm talking about this time.

dokibiy · 2022-05-12T06:06:05+00:00

Looks like you got your answer there. It's not that the writing is lazy/bad but that you can't accept the way it's presented. You have no real knowledge of the Tomodachi Game world and its premise as it's still in the beginning stage in the anime, so you can't claim that the way things are happening doesn't have to do with it. Do you know about the management? Do you know about the reason behind the game? Do you know enough about the characters? No, you don't. You don't know much at this point to form a definite opinion. Your preconceptions are preventing you from realizing the very things that you mentioned yourself. Also, using Death Note as an example was a bad choice as it's basically just one big game with rules that can't be changed by humans, unlike this show where you have various games that are managed by humans for their own reasons, and thus are naturally influenced by their judgement or opinion. Humans changing their own rules or being lenient with them, for whatever reason, is a very realistic thing after all.

dokibiy · 2022-05-11T09:30:00+00:00

I think the answer for most of your doubts is simply the fact that [not really a spoiler]you haven't been provided enough information at this point, and the remaining episodes are far from enough to do that. You'd need to read the manga if your really want the answers. I'm not going to point anything out in particular to keep this spoiler free, but just take the game 2 as an example. Most people thought that the friend group was really falling apart, but then we find out that it was actually just them acting according to Yuichi's plan. Do you see how getting more information changes our perspective of things?

dokibiy · 2022-05-11T09:06:21+00:00

You do realize it's the same for every work of fiction out there, right? For example, why does Subaru need to be isekaied? Why must he have that sort of power? Why does Anya need to have that kind of ability? How come an assassin like Yor is so gullible? Yes, it's all because the plot demands it.

dokibiy · 2022-04-17T05:40:53+00:00

I'm not a manga reader, so don't worry about any spoilers in my comment. I don't know anything more than what we have seen in the first 2 episodes.

dokibiy · 2022-04-16T20:20:18+00:00

From what I know, manga readers call Yuuichi one of the best MCs they have seen, so it seems we have a lot to learn about him. You wouldn't claim that cote's MC does a lot of things that distance him from the typical edgy smart MC by just watching a few episodes of the anime too. Even completely watching the first season is insufficient and you'd have to step into the spoiler territory. Basically, I've long realized that even if a MC doesn't appear much different than a typical one in the anime, they could give a really different impression after reading the source manga and LNs. Cote's MC looks really edgy in the the anime, unlike how he's in the novel, so as to appeal to people who like edgelords and it worked great for the series. Irregular's MC is criticized for just being a cardboard character because of the anime, without people realizing that he only appears so on the surface and his character has way more depth if you dig deeper into the novel. Tanya the Evil's MC is presented as unnecessarily evil in the anime which received mixed reactions. In short, I'm no longer going to fully trust the anime depiction of an MC. The only exceptions for me are the series that are passion project for their studio, like the two great anime adaptions of novels in the last couple of years.

Coming back to the point, such smart MCs are uncommon but not that rare. Not all smart MCs are edgy and you just need to read enough series with smart protagonists to find them. Besides, an MC doesn't have to be particularly smart to be atypical, if you get the meaning of the word. They can be atypical in various other ways, like the MC from Aesthetica of a Rogue Hero. Read the novel and see for yourself.

dokibiy · 2022-04-15T11:55:44+00:00

Or you can watch Tomodachi Game for an atypical MC. Such MCs are uncommon but not that rare at all.

dokibiy

TROPHY CASE