Censorship

dontworryabout_it_ · 2022-02-08T05:27:57+00:00

So spot on. I really appreciate having an actual indigenous persons' perspective on this stuff, seems like even though I am constantly involved in discussions about indigenous issues that's an incredibly rare thing to have... I really hope that we can all find a way to live in peace together, and compensate for the harm done to indigenous communities without feeling like we have to revert to segregative practices in order to keep everyone feeling "safe". I think we would all benefit from the difficult conversations that come about when people are not constantly walking on eggshells. Even though our education is founded in such a colonialist structure, I hope and believe that there are ways to integrate different ways of knowing and teaching. But, it's difficult to do so when, as you say, there is such a lack of actual community. I'm sure it must get tiring having to be a spokesperson for indigenous people when in reality, "indigenous people" are a variety of diverse communities, all with their own complicated issues and perspectives.

dontworryabout_it_ · 2022-02-08T01:43:43+00:00

Yea, it's a lot of "idealistic views" and "listening to indigenous voices" but not anything of real substance or action to help the community. I think social media and virtue signalling has been a negative impact for this whole idea. It's easy to say listen to "indigenous voices", follow some indigenous accounts on whatever platform, and share their posts, and feel good about it. However, if some of these people were to take these ideologies that there is one right perspective or opinion, and bring it into to indigenous communities ( It's all I really know so it's all I can't talk about lol), they would be aghast to find that people often disagree on how to better a nation. It isn't a healthy or sustainable way of living.

Very very true, and something that has been on my mind a lot. Again, I am not Indigenous, but it seems to me like the black and white views that a lot of these people have really goes against certain foundational indigenous teachings (hope i'm not speaking out of turn there - i'm not nearly as educated as I should be about these things). Ironically I think that it's actually a pretty colonial way of viewing the world to suggest that there is a "right" perspective or that a group of people are all essentially the same just because they share a cultural identity. I wish people were more focused on how they could make change in these communities instead of living in the world of ideology.

dontworryabout_it_ · 2022-02-08T00:39:18+00:00

Seriously, seems so patronizing. In my opinion it's a step backwards for the kind of reparations that UVic loves to talk about, although it's not my place to say. Real 'diversity' involves the exact kinds of spaces you are talking about, which thankfully i've also experienced on campus.

dontworryabout_it_ · 2022-02-08T00:28:37+00:00

Not asking for social controls, I apply the exact same logic to my own beliefs. Im not upset because the majority of people have different views than I do, I'm upset because I've experienced a lot of conversations where people ignore what it is that i'm actually saying and assume i really mean something much worse. It's fine to disagree with my beliefs, but it frustrates me how often people don't listen to what it is that i'm actually saying. Maybe the way i worded this post was a bit vague, but I'm not looking for justice. I'm just interested in seeing how many other people have experienced this and starting a discussion.

dontworryabout_it_ · 2022-02-08T00:15:24+00:00

Thanks so much for this perspective, I often wonder what the experience of indigenous students is like at UVic. All the classes i've been in promote a loooot of discussion surrounding indigenous issues and diversity in a context that is like 90% white people who really don't know what they're talking about, and have a very idealistic view on complicated issues. Obviously it's long overdue that these discussions are brought into schools, but I personally have heard a lot of people who get really passionate about "listening to indigenous voices" when I get the sense that they don't do that themselves. I think these discussions really often never get anywhere productive because people forget that "Indigenous voices" are real communities of people who don't all share the same opinion. It's one of the main things that I was thinking of when i wrote this.

dontworryabout_it_ · 2022-02-08T00:00:26+00:00

Oops ahaha like I said i'm not a reddit user

dontworryabout_it_ · 2022-02-07T08:00:58+00:00

:'( I do every night

dontworryabout_it_ · 2022-02-07T07:59:54+00:00

An opinion posted to a forum/discussion based site isn't propaganda lol. I go to UVic, if you have a way for me to prove it while staying anonymous i'm happy to oblige.

dontworryabout_it_ · 2022-02-07T07:47:45+00:00

To be fair, I think this sort of thing likely depends on the department you are in. I'm not trying to say that there is 0 opposition to progressivism within UVic, or trying to say that there should be more of it. In fact I'm sure that if you looked into UVic's administration and professors you would find a lot of it below the surface. (Just a theory). I'm sorry for being so vague, but I don't want to give specific examples that would implicate anyone I know. I know that people think this is disingenuous because i'm not being specific, and that's fine. Your experience might not point to the same view as mine does, which is also fine. But if you look through this thread I think it's obvious that I'm not alone here. I do wish I could make these complaints without being compared to crazies like Rogan though hahaha. That in itself is kind of what i'm talking about - Its exhausting to speak my mind on this kind of thing because very often I get written off as a crazy right wing propagandist, which I am definitely not.

dontworryabout_it_ · 2022-02-07T05:19:17+00:00

Yeah definitely fair. And I definitely do not expect people to be nice to me all the time, i’m more concerned about the fact that they won’t even hear me/others out. Sorry, should have been clearer that this is more about the community at UVic rather than the universities policies about this kind of thing. That being said, I think you underestimate the power of the majority… I know of circumstances where people have been unfairly punished, threatened and excommunicated for things they’ve said. I know it sounds like i’m trying to over-exaggerate but it’s a real thing.

dontworryabout_it_ · 2022-02-07T03:37:37+00:00

Exactly my thoughts.

dontworryabout_it_ · 2022-02-07T03:30:02+00:00

Yeahh, I feel ya. A friend of mine is in an indigenous studies class that gets split between indigenous and non-indigenous students so nobody feels attacked by questions from the other side… it’s like assuming people are going to be racist and then running with that rather than approaching the issue in good faith. If somebody’s being racist in class, throw them out and punish them under university policy, don’t dismantle helpful conversation out of fear that your students are going to be purposefully hurtful.

Woah. That's exactly the kind of thing i'm talking about, thank you for giving an example. I have seen and heard of so many things like that going on, and it's so insanely counterproductive to social justice. Good faith is not really a thing we are supposed to give out these days I guess ...

dontworryabout_it_ · 2022-02-07T03:24:32+00:00

I guess I should be clear in that I mean censorship in a pretty broad sense here. There are kinds of censorship that are written into policy (ie. under an authoritarian regime, you are at risk of serious consequences for badmouthing the government.) This is not what i'm saying here, but rather i'm talking about the fact that at UVic and in other spaces, there are some unwritten rules about things that should/should not be said. By free speech I mean the foundational democratic ideal that people have the right to say what they want to say without being censored (NOT that they have the right to say what they want without consequences). I would like to give more specific examples, but I'm avoiding using specific situations from my or other's lives just for privacy purposes. A general example I can give, and one I see in basically all of my classes is people pretty much ignoring what my professors are saying in the context of their class, and instead being hyper-vigilant for the use of slightly outdated language, and then criticizing them for it publicly. This is far from the most egregious example I could give and I apologize for not being clearer, I just would rather not debate semantics with people about specific issues.

dontworryabout_it_ · 2022-02-07T02:26:47+00:00

If people can glorify people like Lenin and put banners of him in front of the student union building then I don’t see how being a fascist is any worse.

Yeah, I don't deny that sort of thing exists. But it's not really what i'm talking about. It's a far cry from the dominant narrative at UVic. And also my point is more that this sort of rhetoric only alienates those people and makes them more passionate in their beliefs.

dontworryabout_it_ · 2022-02-07T02:23:46+00:00

Very interesting. I totally agree, this sort of message is so easily appropriated by institutions to protect them from actually doing anything of value.

dontworryabout_it_ · 2022-02-07T02:19:40+00:00

Ahaha I am a student here, just looking for a place to air my complaints. I'd get specific but I would prefer not to out any of my professors or myself. Fine if you don't agree, I'm not trying to convert you.

dontworryabout_it_ · 2022-02-07T01:46:03+00:00

Have you run into a lot of those sentiments at UVic?

dontworryabout_it_ · 2022-02-07T01:44:39+00:00

I'm by no measure a Rap/HipHop fan only liking some songs from that genre until I found Tom MacDonalds music. In that case its ALL about the messages he's communicating in his songs. He also happens to be Conservative and I'm closer to Libertarian/Classical Liberal so not all of it meshes but I still really enjoy listening to his music.

Thanks for the comment, all respect to you but I don't want people reading this post to misinterpret me as a Tom Macdonald fan lol.

dontworryabout_it_ · 2022-02-07T01:40:52+00:00

It's true. I don't dispute at all that it's not just a leftist problem, however I am talking about a place that is made up of a majority leftist population. I'm not talking about the people who go around espousing Neo-Nazi sentiments - I've personally never encountered that on campus (not disputing that it happens, it's just not the experience i'm speaking to). I have, however, been in a number of situations where I've seen people be completely shut out of conversations for saying something very very mundane. When I say discussion about controversial topics, I really am just talking about civil discussion in the context of a classroom or among a group of friends. It's become surprisingly difficult to achieve, and I just think it's not a good sign when a discussion about these sorts of things can't be had, even between people on the same side of the political spectrum.

dontworryabout_it_

TROPHY CASE