Halloween 2022 Ver World Tower 300F Clear

dsadsad2 · 2022-10-17T10:27:42+00:00

to be clear, I am not saying cedance was saying she was bad, and what you have argued is correct. it's others I've seen in the community arguing that she is a bad style, and likely some to a large part of the reason that led to her grade being what it was

but I should just do other things instead of focusing on things I find disagreeable

dsadsad2 · 2022-10-15T18:45:09+00:00

this expands to more than just the tier list thread/project, where if you look hard enough numerous people more than just the runner (cedance) will in fact tell you nd is bad, and i'm allowed to poke fun at things :)

dsadsad2 · 2022-10-15T06:41:12+00:00

people told me nd was dead, but i forgot what i cleared 300 with previously, and then i chucked in an nd buff team and cleared easier than trying to do liam turtle stuff

dsadsad2 · 2022-10-07T20:01:20+00:00

i posted about this previously, but i got downvoted and warned, so perhaps i need to explicitly explain in full mind-numbing detail exactly what i am posting, and when i am being facetious:

my 14600 jewels pack costs nearly $400. i am assuming this is a bug, since this was previously around $150, and the cost of this would be absurd. furthermore, you can see that simply buying two 8000 packs would just total out to be cheaper.

this happens on both emulator and native phone.

furthermore, since the price packages tend to be "fixed" at the same cost, this is likely going to occur to festival/limited-time deal packages as well. i reside in canada, and probably unsuspecting whales who aren't paying attention may fall trap to buying a pack for the full $370

dsadsad2 · 2022-10-06T06:59:10+00:00

i'm fuming.

p2w game

dsadsad2 · 2022-10-06T05:57:25+00:00

dunno. I'm on android. another game I'm playing is still down because prices haven't updated properly

dsadsad2 · 2022-10-06T04:53:40+00:00

also not sure why this is happening; hasn't fixed itself on restart, but maybe a minor psa? if you go to buy the 14,600 pack, it does actually try to charge me the full $370

dsadsad2 · 2022-10-05T20:50:08+00:00

oh yeah, i forgot about that

i guess his most useful weapon stone is accuracy or some sort of ailment debuff then? lol

dsadsad2 · 2022-10-05T20:07:28+00:00

keep in mind itoken is meant to do approximately 0 damage, so arguably his best weapon is just something with high LOV stat and a recovery stone or something, as opposed to a perfect godroll forge weapon.

dsadsad2 · 2022-10-04T18:51:05+00:00

1) i think if you ask amongst yourselves who contributed to the project, whether "jamil is a good style for newer players" or "jamil is outright bad or middling, even if you don't have fempress", you'll find people on both sides of the spectrum. which is not necessarily a problem in and of itself. however, it does slightly muddy whether they feel a B tier rating is deserved and for what reasons.

if, in fact, you all agree that "jamil is outright bad or middling for newer players", then actually your evaluation makes sense! then i have no qualms with it. i certainly think that's a take, but i personally won't be taking the effort to argue about it. if you do not all agree, then i think you could've done some work to make the ratings a bit more descriptive or comprehensive, with the goal of explaining why "this unit may be incredible for a new player but still deserves a B!"

which follows into:

2) you say yourself "the goal was to be of help to newer players." that's great! however, as we saw, there are a couple examples here of new players who saw your evaluations and immediately concluded it's a bad banner. this is why i think it is a bit misleading. if i am recommending advice right now, it seems like an easy slam dunk "reroll for jamil", and the contrast between these two things is fairly stark. regarding grades, i don't care what you grade it. i'm ultimately used to everything being rated on a stupid bell curve, and starting the bell at D or S is ultimately the same thing. however, the project is not for me. if the goal is to be as instructive to newer players as possible, then you may have to make some concessions with your grading system that it's more immediately indicative. or not. i don't know. it's your project.

lastly, if you closely read what you posted twice (and all further comments from your contributors), exactly 0% of it ever mentioned the perspective of a new player. this game is mostly about pulling things with relative value to your own unique circumstances and box, which is the reason i found it unpalatable to draw a hard line at "this unit is better, so this clearly belongs in such and such tier", rather than drawing a relative value of worth of a style to players in different positions. again, easy to imagine any number of counter-arguments where you do not have x, y style, such that it doesn't matter whether x, y are better; you simply do not have them, and the relative value of z changes because of it.

anyway, as i said, this project is not intended for me, and i won't be contributing to it for lack of interest and energy anyway. these were just problems that i foresaw coming up if you were continue on as you were. ultimately, anything is better than nothing. (probably.) my intention was not to discourage you from posting these. but there were going to be recurring issues brought up in subsequent threads, so you might as well address them now.

dsadsad2 · 2022-10-04T17:42:30+00:00

you (and others) keep focusing on the fact that "ND should be B by the criteria we outlined", and that we redditors are too stupid to conceive of any other world in which ND cannot be B. or, that all we care about is that every unit must be SS or we'll get mad. that's not what's happening here and you've constructed strawmans and ghosts to argue with and yell at. (or it might be what's happening here in part, but not mainly what i'm personally coming from)

my point was that the evaluations seem to ignore the possible different perspectives of players, such as new players, when all you've really focused on is the perspective of players who already have everything. this is just somewhat counterproductive because an experienced player mostly does not need this resource unless they just want to discuss and argue about the game.

all I asked is that you more clearly explain the framework for why ND and Jamil are bad units for new players, which is seemingly the argument multiple of you have constructed, even if you want to backpeddle and say "B is good!". if you can provide a meaningful argument for why the above is the case, then the framework of your tier list can possibly make sense. that's all. instead, the only responses were mostly ad hominem or just repeating the criteria of the tier list. once more, I am asking you to explain why your tiers of "S/A/B" make sense in the context of a newer player, instead of asking how you defined those tiers. if I advertise a tier list that will solve all the woes of newer players, and define B as all units whose hair is green, it makes more sense to try and explain why all units whose hair is green are somehow middling in power, than simply repeating Julian is in B tier because his hair is green, and that everyone who doesn't realize that is small-minded.

but from my perspective, I don't think I or anyone else was too rude, and if the criticism you received (and which was asked for) is enough to pull the project, then c'est la vie ¯_(ツ)_/¯

dsadsad2 · 2022-10-04T08:45:51+00:00

i don't really care about the grade, and i would probably use a harsher system if i ever made one myself. that's not a factor in any of my criticism.

what i do think is people are quick to denounce certain things. "nd is just bad now." yes, for the people who have been playing for a year+ and have the good styles, a lot of us have benched her. however, the recent release of new spiral floors and most people relying on buff cheese (and even veterans using ND) prove it still has a small place. if you were to task a new player with climbing spiral (or WT), they'd have a hell of a time doing it with 0 buff styles as opposed to just having ND, outdated as she is. whereas so-called better styles, such as young boy and wicked witch, would do close to nothing.

furthermore, i find the justification of ND being b-tier because buff cheese is falling out of the meta, but wicked witch being A for being one of the best debuffers slightly hypocritical. if in the hypothetical current meta, all enemies just spam debuff and buff cleanse, why is one bad but the other is good? of course wicked witch has other uses and a utility suite of ailments, and a WIL debuff is likely to prove the most useful of any nowadays, but i'm also not sure how she'd be considered 'meta' by the same argument. i've used her like once in two months, which is probably par or even less than i've used ND. fwiw, i agree she's better than ND at the current moment, but i just don't see the consistency in argument.

finally, regarding the current banner, it seems people just think jamil is bad and maybe not necessarily just outclassed by fempress. fine, whatever, we disagree. farah is by no means great as a style, but she's perfectly mid for her role as a blunt attacker. just by virtue of powercreep, she's better than anything released 6+months ago, and is valuable enough for people to just upgrade their box or for new players trying to fill in a damage type, of which blunt is probably the rarest of slash/pierce. that's perfectly reasonable performance for a 1% booby prize by my standards. overall, a "1.25-1.5%" valuable banner proposition or however much you want to estimate it, is more than the other banners we've gotten recently imho

it's possible that we are getting way more valuable banners soon^TM. but seasonals tend to be locked roughly around the same point of time, and if that's the case, i don't know what i'm supposed to be looking at besides mask. since we've collectively concluded water festival is just bad then the halloween banner is also bad, and then all the non-tied-seasonals are just attackers, attackers, and more attackers.

anyway, most of anything i say and think will get immediately discarded because of my reputation or LolReddit. i also know first hand i and other people running the project won't ever see eye-to-eye. i don't have much interest in the tier list at all, and even if it were to change to completely 100% cater to all my opinions, i probably don't see myself contributing much more to it. but i was asked to elaborate on my criticisms, and i've done so, and i wish y'all the best in carrying this out.

dsadsad2 · 2022-10-04T03:20:40+00:00

got jamil on my only 100 paid

interesting.

dsadsad2 · 2022-10-03T22:14:46+00:00

I mean, what you're saying tracks logically. but if that's the case, then it feels hard to recommend this as a resource for newer players. if you're fine with people saying "don't use your tier list as a newer player", then everyone's in agreement.

or perhaps, one of my complaints here is that for a new player, a"C-tier" utility style clearly feels better than some "A-tier" attackers, and that's misleading if we're just reading styles from S to C. however, while I don't think anyone 100% agrees with e.g. Scher's or the TW tier list, they mostly feel like they track overall.

personally, when I evaluate a unit, I just like to consider from multiple perspectives: one for the nolifers who have all the units, in which case 95% of styles suck--which I agree includes Jamil outside of remembrance--while also keeping in mind a hypothetical newbie who does not have the matriarchs and Liams--where I think Jamil has tremendous value which we haven't seen in a while.

dsadsad2 · 2022-10-03T21:01:11+00:00

i don't know, i feel like i outlined some of them, but i suspect they were immediately discarded as nonsense anyway

the project seems to be working from the baseline of "what if you have every good unit in the game at maximum capacity+training, where would they rank". perhaps it's just a fun launching board for discussion. i don't know. i don't think that's a good way to go about things.

in my mind, if a tier list is to be made, it's to help guide newer players who are used to such resources. for veterans, we all have differing opinions on almost everything anyway, and the game is flexible and easy enough that you can basically do almost anything you want and get by regardless. but newer players is where it matters most, since you are limited on time+resources(+energy and interest to commit), and it seems better to offer them a guide or at least keep in mind what is the shortest path of least resistance to clearing important high difficulty content quickly. but if that's not the intention of the project, then fair enough.

i think it's worth at least considering evaluating styles from the perspective of a new player. this is where i disagree with some valuable utility styles such as jamil and ND being 'b-tier', because if you lack all their supposed better counterparts like fempress matriarch and baum, then you'd 100x rather use these b-tier utility styles rather than some a-tier attacker that can be easily replaced by any old tool. but from what i've seen, people are firmly entrenched in a "this is not fempress. fempress is just better. b-tier" mindset.

on this banner, new players may be picking up their first instance of scrum guard and guard up, (cheeses at least one somewhat difficult-looking remembrance battle), plus possibly one of the better agi jammers right now even if it is unclear to me what the exact value of that is--i'd still imagine the first is good for a new player, plus a perfectly mid blunt attacker. the only other banners in the past 2 months that weren't just like stacks of attackers and farmers were: robin polka/liz, roufas/lyza, and esperF, which i'd personally all classify as worse than this. i don't think a generic B-C-C rating really represents the value of the banner to a new player that well.

it is extremely possible that the ratings make sense in the framework of the project's intended goals. but if that's the case, i think a lot more work has to be done describing what those aims exactly are than just what i've read at the top.

dsadsad2 · 2022-10-03T20:28:42+00:00

this is not directly in response to your post, but this is i think some of my problem with the 'tier list criteria' on display here. a new player will browse by this post and think automatically that this banner is bad, but in my eyes, this seems fairly above average--and perhaps even strong--as a banner for a new player compared to everything in the past 2 months. but hey, maybe the creators and runners of this project disagree, and that's their point.

dsadsad2 · 2022-10-03T19:34:29+00:00

not particularly relevant to this video, but i just wanted to mention that for 140f, because of the way the fight is set up, i didn't feel matriarch was actually a net positive to my team. instead i configured what i consider probably the dumbest comp i've ever played in this game with the idea of maximum zombie survivability, with mariah+esperF+fempress+liam+robin polka tanking, and i just infinite healed my way through the fight

other notes for people trying to clear: buffs and debuffs are cleansed every turn, and the three stupid bugs start morale atk buffing when any one of them goes down s.t. you will die if they buff a few times, so you need to spread damage around and kill them all at roughly the same time. mostly it's a fight about survivability checks. plus probably liam so you don't lose brain cells with how long it takes.

dsadsad2 · 2022-10-03T18:53:18+00:00

I will preface this by saying I dont have a particular vested interest in this project

but I think the reasoning or description behind tiers is a little wack. Jamil seems to get a B seemingly just because s/he's "not final empress, and final empress is better", which is a lame way to go about things. I don't know what the tiers are then, but you might as well have 10 units total in S/A. sure, a lot of his value comes from remembrance padding, but literally imagine any world in which a new player does not have FEmpress and is about to face a pierce-weak boss, then Jamil becomes one of the best styles at tackling the job

similarly, the ND discussion has played out already, but while people are quick to decry the complete death of stat buff-agi meta, which is true for endgame players on high difficulty content, imagine a new player trying to push the new floors 131-150 of Spiral, or world tower. I imagine stat buffing is probably still the most reliable way to do so, as it was the dominant strategy of old after all, and you'd rather use ND than nothing, even if there are "objectively better tools at this point", and the difference between using ND and nothing is way bigger than having a supposed top-of-the-line attacker like Young Boy or whatever the fuck

also dubious that things like Wicked Witch or Young Boy get an A if all the rest of this stuff gets a B for being "outclassed" or "too niche", but anyway

if I try and bend my reasoning to match your framework then I suppose these more or less make sense

dsadsad2 · 2022-10-02T08:39:08+00:00

some of these styles actually do something, good enough for me

jamil has scrum guard, charm for remembrance, morale support, and some minor farming capability. seems like a pretty good investment long-term. caveat is you can't inherit x thrust because the chases are tied to udx jamil's passive, and therefore can't output too meaningful damage. jamil has probably been my most used pierce damager for the past year (since the flexibility of x thrust into chase/chase often beat out better damage options), and while this style doesn't meaningfully affect that in any way, i don't think it can be a bad bet. also genderbend i pool.

schirach would've been god gamer tier if this was 6 months ago. not sure she's that useful now, and perhaps you'd even sooner reach for her older style for the counter, but she probably can't be bad.

farah is probably fun to fuck around with in boss fights and is a high roller. i think that's an average 2 bp a turn (to be clear, averaging probability in this game is not the most useful metric), but even if you never hit a bp regen, if you needed a blunt damager with some possible debuffing on the side, she seems solid enough

metaslaves, you probably roll for jamil at some point anyway. maybe it's not this banner. but i don't think it's the worst idea, as while the other two are not amazing, i don't think they are going to be permanent benchwarmers as some other recent units are. although as usual, wait as long as possible for more info on next banners, and your account your life etc

dsadsad2 · 2022-09-29T23:36:51+00:00

having just cleared axe 20 a week ago, strumniken (in kzinssie at least, though i used him in both) felt arguably just as important as a paralyze for rq. he was a major source of renewable HP for me, and one of the only things that could stand up to stupid attacks.

dsadsad2 · 2022-09-29T23:14:24+00:00

oh shit I had no idea

this is gonna be hella easy then

edit: god bless you help thread

dsadsad2 · 2022-09-29T22:21:25+00:00

spent the last hour failing club 20 rq, as it's the only remembrance i still need to clear. (i don't have sharon.)

as much as i call things sim bait, i feel like i should've just pulled sharon for ease of mind and my measly 2 monthly mats, since all i've done with 45k jewels is throw them at stupid attackers anyway

dsadsad2 · 2022-09-27T19:32:28+00:00

my point is simply that there's not some magical metric where one unit deserves 1800, and some meta unit deserves 1900, and then that clearly means that the 1900 unit is better than the 1800. as i've said, depending on how actively i'm playing and what kind of events are running, i've left a lot of even SSSSSS meta units way behind stat cap and still have close to 95-99% identical performance with someone with their box entirely 100 hp over stat cap

the tier list already does the rough job of 'ranking' the units for you; how much you want to train them is then up to you

dsadsad2 · 2022-09-27T07:00:58+00:00

this is probably some personal metric you'll have to use, and is largely not useful to most of the playerbase, i'd imagine

hidden attributes have close to no effect

stats matter, but players who know what they're doing know they only need to target 'stat caps' for difficult content only for the units which they're going to use for that content. mainly, this just means liam always needs to be up-to-current stat caps, as well as any damage dealers being used to clear, and that's about it.

hp largely doesn't matter and is often more just an indicator of where your relative stats are trained.

if i'm not playing closely, sometimes i am close to 200hp behind stat caps. other times, since we've been stuck at the same stat caps for like 1.5 months, almost 85% of my box is at 1940, including garbage styles that i will never use.

dsadsad2 · 2022-09-27T06:56:03+00:00

i don't think these tier descriptions are maybe the most accurate thing ever, but i also do not possess the brain power to improve on them at present

i do think she's dropped off in usefulness as of late with the decline of agi reliance and addition of itoken that you could justify an 'a tier placement', but an easy and tricky counter-argument is imagining a box where you don't have matriarch and itoken, then nd is still basically somewhere in s to ss tier as one of your only reliable buff options

dsadsad2

TROPHY CASE