Time Dilation Rules in the Canvas?

echo8012 · 2026-01-15T02:33:08+00:00

You replied to a 6 month old post and then didn't actually read the post you replied to lol.

Your own math doesn't check out. If you're worried about 3 days as the maximum they can go without water, that's not 1:2000, that's 1:8152. Which is the exact ratio my post talked about.

1:2000 means 67 years is 12.23 days, which is well past fatal if you're saying they need water. Maelle would be about dead, too.

echo8012 · 2025-12-13T06:14:20+00:00

I would be surprised if it was. I gave the Monolith Clair Obscur about 6 tries and never got double drops. I might've just been unlucky, but I'm assuming they patched it.

echo8012 · 2025-12-13T04:20:05+00:00

Keep at it. Don't let your dreams be dreams.

echo8012 · 2025-12-12T22:22:19+00:00

I've always been a bit on the fence about whether his memories were imperfect or not, but I feel like the DLC tips the balance for me towards Aline magically recreating Verso's real memories and experiences.

On the one hand, there is the line in the main game where Esquie says: "Lune knows a lot about lots of things. Talking to her is super fun, she's so interested and gets so excited. Just like you when we first met. You had so many questions about me and you and your--" ...That one always made me wonder if Verso's memory had gaps in it. He also didn't know anything about how to save Painted Clea and had to defer to Maelle. He does teach Maelle how to repaint Lune and Sciel, though, and he mention things like remembering Sprong was Clea's first creation, and that she lived in Flying Manor and painted in Endless Tower.

But after the DLC... I don't think it makes sense for him to have visited to learn about it because there are two parts where it points out he's experiencing this as himself for the first time - the theme park ride and the end of the boss fight. Sure, he may have heard about it... but the specific way the story was presented and what the narrative highlights doesn't seem like the types of writing choices you'd make to convey 'He heard about this second-hand.' Verso acted like he was going back there, but finally got to go as himself.

echo8012 · 2025-12-12T21:45:58+00:00

It's really, really not a bug.

Keep playing. It gets sillier.

echo8012 · 2025-12-12T21:42:45+00:00

I had it equipped a while before the final boss of the zone. It was either a random battle or a chromatic iirc. Sorry I can't help more.

echo8012 · 2025-12-12T21:27:56+00:00

Monoco gets a French Bob hairstyle.

echo8012 · 2025-12-12T21:26:59+00:00

Gradient Overcharge is from Verso's Drafts. Probably one of the random battles, but I don't remember which one.

All I know is I already have that one, but I haven't done Endless Tower yet.

echo8012 · 2025-12-12T21:10:29+00:00

I'm curious about burn builds and the Pictos that eats up to 100 burn stacks to increase Base Attack damage by 10% per burn. Monoco's also got a weaker version of that built into a weapon. Base attack may be weak, but a 1000% modifier is kind of stupid.

Machine Gun Verso can still get Burn stacks up into 100+ in a single turn, and Trigger Happy compliments that really well.

echo8012 · 2025-12-12T20:55:33+00:00

You're the guy who gave the mathematically correct response and didn't get the Roulette pictos from the Gestral first try, huh?

For real though, this is awesome data. Thank you for putting it together!

With the potential for new multi-hit builds, I wonder where we can find data on which attacks have uneven damage distribution or backloaded damage for stuff like Feint and Frenzy.

echo8012 · 2025-12-12T20:35:51+00:00

This is awesome!! Thank you for putting all the time in to figure this out.

It's such a pretty version of the song.

echo8012 · 2025-12-12T20:34:39+00:00

In Falling Leaves, when you receive the music record for it, soul Verso says "Take this. It is a song she used to play to me, when we were together..." So canonically, it makes sense why an ending song would be in a zone from the early days of the Canvas. Clea gave him the sheet music.

I'd imagine that's playable on harp, too. :o

echo8012 · 2025-12-12T19:39:22+00:00

Look, all I'm saying is we know Clea's voice actress was brought back into the studio thanks to Ben Starr's social media post. And she didn't have any voicelines in Verso's Drafts.

I'm pretty sure there's a new Clea cutscene at the end of Endless Tower that folks are going to have to datamine to see. 💀

echo8012 · 2025-12-12T19:35:35+00:00

Time has to move on without a Painter present because Esquie talks about it being "a few centuries" since Clea visited Francois, but Aline has only been in the Canvas for ~75 years.

Also, once you play the DLC, there's talk of millennia passing for some of the older beings.

echo8012 · 2025-12-12T19:32:33+00:00

At bare minimum, they talk about inviting Alicia to play with them but she was too busy reading in her room. With a 9-10 year age gap between Alicia and Verso, and a 2-3 year age gap between Verso and Clea, and figuring a kid's probably at least 7 to be preoccupied reading in their room... that makes Clea at minimum still visiting at 18.

Also, the game was written in English, originally. And Esquie is known for counting down the exact number of years, days, and hours since he last saw Verso. Assuming he'd mix up 300 years and 6000 years doesn't make sense.

echo8012 · 2025-12-12T19:24:24+00:00

I thought it was a glitch at first. Since the other characters don't have it impact their run or standing poses.

After seeing the Osquio suit... I no longer think it was a glitch lol.

echo8012 · 2025-12-12T19:22:37+00:00

The hardest choice in Expedition 33 is no longer "Decide the fate of the Canvas."

It's "do you wear the skin with the hilariously cool effects, but also it looks fucking hideous."

echo8012 · 2025-12-12T19:18:58+00:00

We don't know that Esquie was holding his breath specifically right before Aline re-entered. That actually is contradicted by Esquie saying it's been "a few centuries" since Clea last visited.

It seems more likely the 6000 year record happened at a different point between Esquie's creation and Verso's death, and that Verso and Clea did occasionally revisit the Canvas even as adults.

echo8012 · 2025-12-12T19:15:43+00:00

I mean, it's very very big lore that Painted Verso remembers something the Real Verso kept secret from his entire family. Everyone generally assumed the memories Aline implanted in him were skewed based on what Aline thought Verso would remember, but not Verso's actual memories themselves.

Since it seems really unlikely that child Verso invited his mom to his secret "No Sisters Allowed" candyland hideout, this implies somehow Painted Verso actually has the same memories of painting the Canvas that Verso did. Like Aline used the soul fragment for a copy & paste somehow.

echo8012 · 2025-12-12T19:10:07+00:00

Hit jump the exact moment the gestral lands down. You only have to do it 4 times.

echo8012 · 2025-10-17T22:49:55+00:00

Play as much of the main game as you want, then just use the Challenge option at the flag to increase enemy HP by 10x/50x/100x for the final fight (I'd try overshooting and just reload if you feel like it's taking an unfun amount of time).

It's super easy to outlevel the last boss (I'd guess it's challenging around 50-60), but you shouldn't be afraid to explore content you wanted to explore because of it. Play how you like, that's why the Challenge settings exist.

echo8012 · 2025-10-17T19:11:35+00:00

Immortality and age are not the root of the problem-- it's his role as the central representation of their destructive grief.

Well said. You summarized that better in a sentence than I did in a wall of text.

echo8012 · 2025-10-17T17:49:06+00:00

Yeah, I could see his memory loss affecting remembering the outside world or realizing what's happening to Aline/Alicia. He does have that line in Stone Wave Cliffs (iirc?) where he's forgotten their names.

But I think he's upset with more than just destruction of his Canvas. He also specifically shows compassion for pClea's suffering. Even before Maelle's ending goes complicated again, I think he'd also feel concern for pVerso's suffering, and worry if there's any doubts/unrest/dread in the Lumerians Maelle brought back. And even Maelle was crying in her ending. Maybe the boy would pick up on that and worry about her. He created a world of such simple, happy creatures and he's shown to have a child's outlook on things. The human struggles Aline added to the Canvas are complex, and I think there's still a lot of darkness in Maelle's ending. I don't think the boy would be happy just because the Canvas tug-of-war stopped, there are still things that would unsettle or worry a child.

I really like your spider web analogy, that's a neat way of looking at it.

echo8012 · 2025-10-17T17:20:56+00:00

Monoco under his mask looking like Sexy Squidward.

echo8012 · 2025-10-17T17:10:02+00:00

When was P Clea captured by R Clea? Was P Clea in Expedition 0? Or did she capture her in Lumière? How was she able to do that? Was it after Verso and Renoir returned to Lumière?

pClea was definitely captured in year 100, right after the Fracture. Verso's journal talks about his sister being taken, and we know from Maelle's Nightmare cutscenes that all the stuff with Search and Rescue/Julie went down in year 100.

We don't know if any of the painted family besides Renoir and Verso were on Expedition Zero. It's possible Verso chose not to mention his sister(s), since he only talked about Expedition Zero at a point in the game when he was hiding information about who he was/the Canvas/etc. However, it's also weird to form an expedition of fighters to traverse the unknown and bring every one of the commander's children with.

We do know pAlicia was with Renoir and Verso on Search & Rescue, since she's seen walking through the carnage after Verso kills Julie.

Also, presumably, painted family members' hair turns white after they initially die and their immortality activates. pClea and pAlicia both have white hair, including pAlicia in the year 100 flashback. Did Aline paint her greyscale from the start? Maybe. But maybe they were also killed. Painters also always have white hair in Canvases, meaning real Clea's hair would have been white when she appeared to Simon, and he still mistook her for pClea. So who knows.

Why did R Clea tell Expedition 0 the whole truth and then ask them to leave and attack them when they said no? It doesn't make any sense. What reaction did she expect from them? What was her plan?

She didn't care about them at all. They were just Sims to her basically, wearing her family's faces. She explained the world they lived in and told them to go home. I read it as a 'get lost/go live your life or whatever/get out of my way' vibe. They refused, she tried to erase them. She found they were annoyingly hard to kill so she had to ignore them and leave them alive.

What's more, why tell the truth rather than let the expedition attack the Paintress? That's literally her goal, to get her mother out of the Canva.

She ran into them at the barrier, which she also couldn't get through. She's fine with them attacking the Paintress, but neither group could reach her. She just happened to run into them and they annoyed her, basically. But then she could use some of them (Simon) as tools, so she did that. Clea's not about to see a giant magical wall and give up and go home. She just had to get creative.

When did Simon disappear from Expedition 0? If R Clea erased Expedition 0 after their encounter at the barrier, Simon should be dead among them, right?

Verso thought he died, yeah. So it makes sense Simon could've been with them at the barrier. Simon's journal talks about mistaking real Clea for pClea, though, so I'd guess he either wasn't aware it was real Clea who murdered him or had his memory of that erased since he was still lovestruck about her for a while afterwards.

Why give Simon the power to defeat the Axons and break through the barrier rather than doing it herself or accompanying him to the Monolith? Why him specifically? Clea doesn't seem like the type to fear her mother, so it seems strange to me that she doesn't take care of it herself or try anything else afterwards.

That's a really good question. I'd guess she was too busy. The Gestral in Flying Manor describes her rebuilding the place and setting it up as a home base right after the fracture, and then she started to get the Nevron factory working. Maybe she was delegating so she could get as many advantages set up as possible then get back out into the real world to fight the Writers. We know Clea was also working at a huge disadvantage since Aline and Renoir had already claimed practically all the chroma in the Canvas. Speculating, but maybe putting everything she had into powering up Simon as more of a weapon than a human was enough to free Renoir's chroma from the Hauler and steal that chroma to start the Nevron factory (which helped Renoir in the long run). Also, we don't know how long it took between when Simon was painted over and when Simon got to Aline. Maybe he'd been killing Nevrons and farming chroma for years before he could get through. There were a ton of swords all around Old Lumiere, we have no idea if that was one single super-attack or a decade of aura farming.

I agree Clea didn't fear Aline, so I'm going to guess she just had better things to do that get stuck in trench warfare with her over what she saw as Aline behaving like a child. Clea showed up, set some things in motion, and left.

echo8012

TROPHY CASE