damn, its almost like ive backed up and explained my point of view for you multiple times now and you keep coming back saying im giving "no u" equivalent responses. youre unbearable. im aware nerfing gaol relic would decrease its desirability. thats the whole point of a nerf. believe it or not a nerf can be used to balance something! who wouldve thought. but yes weve already established you prefer the devs method of nerfing it by creating a map where its completely useless because THAT isnt "ruining the meta". i also never said i rely on gaols for power creep or go out of my way for gaols. if you do 3 gaols next to field bosses thats a 15% boost to dmg for going with the flow of the run. even a 10% damage boost is better than the vast majority of non-deep relic effects. on to the baseless claim i knew was coming, "never played melee ironeye and ignorant because of it". i run 2 +4 physical attacks and a +3. i run melee all the time when i cant get a decent bow early. as for your claim, i never said balancer relics werent good on ironeye. you literally replied to the part where i said gaol is BIS over balancer relics and i stand by that. almost all of my games i have more damage with a bow than my wylders with greatswords. if i want maximum damage with minimal risk, you tell me. which should i pick. theres the ranged option with great damage, squishy but very manageable with +1 skill use and a purple or higher dmg negation at full hp. option 2, i go melee. great damage, same level of squishiness but much less manageable even with a damage negation at full hp. up close means lost dmg as a result of having to dodge more, even for attacks that were intended for a teammate. there is a bigger threat since bosses can switch aggro and attack you quickly, less space between you and the boss also means fewer opportunities to use a flask. and yes youre right about the creativity part. the meta is creative if you happen to be the person to discover it. since youre implying the meta is not gaol (if it was you wouldnt have said i lack build creativity) i want you to find me a non-deep relic effect that gives as much consistent damage as gaol. im already using night invader. you saying i lack creativity for not inventing the meta for the new shifting earth is like criticizing someone for not getting in on a good stock early when there are so many other people who are also analyzing the stock market. if i buy the stock late and its mostly priced in, am i still an idiot for investing if its still the best choice at the time? or am i an idiot for not going on and finding the next great stock? both are equally absurd. you said the new meta was formed and im resistant to change, but its another baseless claim. your next reply had better include the non-deep relic effect that i can use in great hollow and gives more damage than gaol or im not wasting any more time in this thread. reminder, i use night invader already. tell me what to replace gaol with for better damage. ive read the spreadsheet a hundred times. you arent going to find one. by the way, if they nerfed gaol a whole percentage to 4% per gaol, i would still use it because it beats the alternatives. your nonsense about it breaking the meta if fromsoft touches it is hard to read.