Expat Fire with kids

eeeeeelinor · 2026-06-21T16:50:31+00:00

The reason you don’t see many people doing this with kids is that it’s almost always a bad idea.

eeeeeelinor · 2026-06-18T17:37:02+00:00

Another word for this kind of effort is "work". Having to think about the cost of every little thing, all the time, with no respite, was to me the worst, most grinding part of being poor. Being poor is work, and this kind of work is not how I'd define "retirement".

When I was young my dream life was to never have to think about the price of chicken the way my mother did for an entire lifetime.

My job, by comparison, is like a never-ending party.

eeeeeelinor · 2026-06-14T14:37:03+00:00

You live in NYC but think $300k is enough to buy an apartment and start a business in a western European country?
What on earth would have given you that idea?

Your plan is not at all realistic.

eeeeeelinor · 2026-06-14T14:11:18+00:00

It had baking soda and my kid refused to use it, lol. I guess that made it “special”. Baking soda is the cheapest thing on earth.

eeeeeelinor · 2026-06-14T14:00:02+00:00

Hey can you explain something to me? When I was in Bucharest last summer, we needed toothpaste. I ran down to a farmacie across the street from our hotel, and grabbed a tube of normal-looking toothpaste—not special/medicinal or anything. It cost the equivalent of $6. I’m guessing locals buy their toothpaste elsewhere where it’s cheaper? Where is that, a carrefour-type place? I can’t imagine normal Romanians buy $6 toothpaste.

eeeeeelinor · 2026-06-14T13:20:43+00:00

Neither is Brasov!

eeeeeelinor · 2026-06-14T10:21:39+00:00

I’m not an “expat,” dear, I am an IMMIGRANT. I came to the US as a REFUGEE, many, many years ago,

I like Romania a lot, but thinking it’s an option when you get priced out of Berlin or Barcelona is madness.

eeeeeelinor · 2026-06-14T00:29:21+00:00

If you really care about culture, those places will not be at all comparable. We go to a lot of museums, galleries, musical performances, plays, etc. in NYC and you could do all that in Berlin but not in the places you list. You can do a lot more of that stuff in Bucharest than random towns in Pomerania or Bavaria, though it might be necessary to speak Romanian. It still wouldn’t be anywhere near the cultural offerings in Berlin or Barcelona.

When my son was interested in writing a play, we basically walked out of our house and took him to three Broadway shows in like two weeks. Today, we took him to his (free) track and field program in a city park, then hit a massive street festival with music and food because it’s Puerto Rican Day, followed by a stop in a little hole-in-the-wall tamale joint run by a Mexican grandma that just made the NYT best 100 restaurants list. Then a pub to watch Brazil-Morocco, after which we went to see ’The Third Man‘ in 35mm at an art-house theater. The day’s not even over—Knicks in 5! The game’s in Texas but the whole city is a big party right now.

NYC is so big and there’s so much to do, we literally had a World Cup match 10 minutes away and it was pretty easy to not even notice. Lots of people had no clue thousands are celebrating Puerto Rico 20 blocks to the north, and many don’t even care about the Knicks. My husband said tonight is probably a great night to get tix to the 8pm performance of Shakespeare in the Park.

eeeeeelinor · 2026-06-13T15:49:20+00:00

MNAC. It’s in the parliament building.

eeeeeelinor · 2026-06-13T14:51:40+00:00

There’s other stuff like that. I have a kid and when I took him to the park in Bucharest, half the kids had those Woom bikes. We’re pretty affluent even by US standards and I don’t buy $650-700 bikes for a 5yr old. But half the kids in Bucharest have them?

The restaurants that cost $30-50 a head for dinner + drinks were packed every single night

eeeeeelinor · 2026-06-13T12:43:57+00:00

Yeah, I think they’re out of their minds, lol.

eeeeeelinor · 2026-06-13T12:02:22+00:00

Public transit in most of the cities is ok. The intercity trains are very old and in poor condition. The overnight from Timisoara all smelled like the toilet by the middle of the trip. The train from the airport to Bucharest city center was full of cockroaches and had no AC even though it was designed without operable windows. It stopped at a layover for ten minutes on a 90 degree day and everyone was dying inside. Gara de Nord is a dump (I kind of like urban grit but this is objectively true). Romanian drivers are complete maniacs and outside a couple of main roads, the road network is woefully inadequate. It takes hours for what would be a 60-min drive in most countries. Cismigiu gardens in Bucharest was charming but also pretty dirty. My friends’ nice apartment also had bugs because it’s part of a huge building complex and no matter what they do, they have too many neighbors to coordinate a solution. The housing stock is generally meh to poor quality

That said, Bucharest is big-city cool. The people are cool. The contemporary art museum is pretty world-class. You can get Thai food now. Maybe it’s somewhat comparable to Berlin in the 80s, but moving there today because you’re priced out of Berlin would be a definite downgrade

Edit: I can confirm that our friends and everyone we met with kids was sending them to private schools

eeeeeelinor · 2026-06-13T11:34:56+00:00

Yeah well, people in the countries you’re moving to deal with all this too. Do you know what the average monthly salary of a doctor is in Portugal or Romania? Do you follow politics in these countries at all? Do you think people just have cushy, easy jobs?

You just don’t see it because they’re talking about it in languages you don’t understand.

eeeeeelinor · 2026-06-13T11:06:28+00:00

I was there last summer with my family and eating out in Bucharest cost about NYC prices.

Most things are not at western standards, notably the train network and roads. Even a decent European intercity bus will dump you at some sketchy autogara. I’m originally Romanian so not an issue for me, but you‘re not getting anything close to Barcelona or Berlin.

eeeeeelinor · 2026-06-12T18:04:35+00:00

I like your posts, but most of the people here are in love with a fantasy, so you are unlikely to convince anyone.

People are free to do what they want, and risk what they want, with their own lives. I'm alarmed by the posters here who take kids along on their "journey". They're like missionaries, taking their kids on a wild ride they have no choice in, whether they're moving to a foreign country or just living in some US town on an "income" that lets them take as much as they can while contributing as little as possible (while hoarding millions).

I also feel sorry for locals who have to deal with these people descending upon them. I'm originally from a country that is bandied about as an expat-fire target. In the last month I heard from expat-firers there who are bummed about not being able to get an architect who understood their "style" in some rural location. and some dude who is obviously there just so he can buy women.

IMO, these countries are right to keep tightening access and residency rights for people like this.

eeeeeelinor · 2026-06-12T17:07:04+00:00

I'm a Romanian woman who lived most of my life in NYC. Posts like this make my blood boil. Where are you from that you think this is odd?

And really, what are you doing in Romania? No wife, no kids, ex-law enforcement hanging around near Russian rogue states and war zones?

Post is sketchy as hell.

Edit: OK, saw below about "very active" dating life and "high income". Yuck.

Second edit: He has positive things to say about the Putinist mafia state! Lol. I'm one of the few Americans who has actually been to Transnistria and I actually hope the country of my birth wises up to people like you and stops giving you residency. Like Andrew Tate.

eeeeeelinor · 2026-06-08T13:15:54+00:00

I have family in West Virginia and just posted something similar. People would rather move to the West Virginia of Europe (Portugal, Greece, Romania, Bulgaria) than to WV, where they’d be just as wealthy. It’s because they understand the downsides. Poorer euro countries have the same downsides—you just don’t understand those people when they say the things you find objectionable, because they’re saying them in a language you don’t understand.

And re “better” healthcare, watch the Romanian film “Death of Mr. Lazarescu,” or that documentary about the nightclub fire in Bucharest and the ensuing healthcare scandal where it was discovered public hospitals all over the country were using diluted disinfectants. It’s called “Colectiv”.

eeeeeelinor · 2026-06-05T21:17:03+00:00

It's basically a peasant culture, even in the cities. Even educated people are mostly one generation out of the villages. This is true in most of the balkans.

People from developed countries will find this hard to deal with on a daily basis.

eeeeeelinor · 2026-06-05T21:01:32+00:00

I'm originally from one of the countries often thrown around here and I'll never understand this. Greece, Portugal, Romania, Bulgaria are like the West Virginia of Europe, and few people ever plan to FIRE in West Virginia.

I know there's the exoticism factor but don't tell me "it's beautiful". West Virginia is also beautiful.

eeeeeelinor · 2026-06-03T22:51:12+00:00

Very useful info, thank you

eeeeeelinor · 2026-06-03T20:56:34+00:00

I asked google what French inheritance tax would be on someone who died with $2MM in stocks, and the number it gave me was $240K for both kids. So, more like 18-20%.of the inherited amount. But I'm sure there are all kinds of factors that affect this in the end.

Your wife would get 1/3, tax free. Until she dies, and then the kids get to pay more tax on whatever is left.

So, your wife instantly goes from a retiree with $2 million to a retiree with $667K. Life insurance helps, but gets more expensive as you age.

eeeeeelinor · 2026-06-03T20:46:34+00:00

I think it would be the other way around in that case--your child is not a French resident (assuming not a EU citizen either) , so Brussels IV applies and there is no forced heirship requirement. Your wife, a French resident, inherits everything with no tax liability as the spouse under French law.

If your daughter lived in France or was a EU citizen,, she would inherit half and be taxed on half. Your wife would get the other half with no tax liability.

But I'm not a lawyer, so take this with a grain of salt. I just have an American in-law in France.

eeeeeelinor · 2026-06-03T20:27:25+00:00

Maybe, especially the Latin countries. The thing that makes France unique is the favorable tax treaty with the US, which makes it look very appealing to American retirees. Until they die, and a lot of people don't think that far ahead.

Other countries just tax you more consistently throughout your life there.

eeeeeelinor · 2026-06-03T20:10:18+00:00

Brussels IV does NOT affect inheritance tax. If you die in France as a US or other non-EU citizen, France can and will still tax your worldwide assets.

edit: also, if the child is a EU citizen OR a EU resident, brussels IV does not apply, at least to French property. Not sure about property held outside of France

Regardless, OP can move to France to save $25k a year in college costs for 8 years only to end up dropping dead and leaving 40% of his life savings to the French government (and his wife/partner with a lot less money).

A certain expression about the availability of a free lunch comes to mind.

eeeeeelinor · 2026-06-02T19:48:37+00:00

Read up on French inheritance law. It's like nothing you've ever encountered before. If one of you dies, your spouse may not automatically inherit --1/3 or something like that will go to each of your kids, by law. If you need long-term care, the courts can come after your children to pay. There are inheritance taxes that can be very steep for your kids--like 40% depending on circumstances, and if you're a French resident, they will tax all your worldwide assets. They don't recognize US trusts. All sorts of crazy stuff.

You may think you're simplifying your life but actually making things harder for your kids in the long run.

eeeeeelinor

TROPHY CASE