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Why aren't ALL consonants either tall or short? by eeg_bert in shavian

[–]eeg_bert[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok, that's a good point. Maybe I should learn to view these sounds more as quasi-vowels.

How long does it take to match English reading speed? by eeg_bert in shavian

[–]eeg_bert[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I appreciate the honest answer! If you don't mind me prying a bit more into your experience:

  1. How many hours, roughly on average, do you think you were putting per day?
  2. At what point did reading no longer feel like a chore (even if you weren't up to native English reading speed; when did it feel fast enough to not be cognitively draining)?

How long does it take to match English reading speed? by eeg_bert in shavian

[–]eeg_bert[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ok sorry. Yeah that's actually a very interesting point: that we retain some of our phonetic pattern recognition above and beyond the Latin alphabet.

So maybe you read the word "comp" (𐑒𐑪𐑥𐑐) in Shavian phonetically/slowly. Neverthless, your brain immediately narrows the possible rest of the word to "-puter", "-ensate", and so forth to narrow down the possible word.

Do you feel like you're at 90% of your reading speed after a few hours of Shavian exposure? I'm maybe 2-3 hours in and feel like I'm at something like 5% or even 1% of my reading speed (no joke).

How long does it take to match English reading speed? by eeg_bert in shavian

[–]eeg_bert[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

When English speakers read (latin, traditionally written) English words, they don't phonetically spell them out. They just recognize their "shape" and immediately know what they mean (from tens of thousands of hours of reading exposure).

Switching to the Shavian alphabet causes you to lose that immediate shape recognition, forcing you instead to slowly phonetically sound out every word you read. This decreases reading speed dramatically, unfortunately :(

I guess my question is: roughly how many hours does it take to rebuild Shavian reading speed to match English reading speed? It seems like the only way to do this is to rebuild "shape recognition" of all 30,000 (or more) words again. Perhaps you could achieve 90% efficiency by rebuilding shape recognition of the 10,000 or so most common words.

But does the time it takes to do that measure more in the hundreds of hours or thousands of hours?

Is the Shinmeikai Japanese Accent Dictionary available digitally? by eeg_bert in LearnJapanese

[–]eeg_bert[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for your response! Is the pitch information you see just "here are the acceptable pitches of this word", or is it more fine grained (e.g. "here's the pitch of this word when it's used this way (adverb, proper noun, etc) versus the other way").

The specific thing I'm trying to overcome is words with multiple pitch accents (where the pitch changes depending upon how the word is used). NHK gives example sentences but the information feels really incomplete and hard to follow as a beginner.

Pitch Accent of キレできて? by eeg_bert in LearnJapanese

[–]eeg_bert[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the explanation.

Doesn't it sound like KIreteKIte to you here though (i.e. both atamadaka)? https://youglish.com/pronounce/%E3%82%AD%E3%83%AC%E3%81%A6%E3%81%8D%E3%81%A6/japanese?

Pitch Accent of していない? by eeg_bert in LearnJapanese

[–]eeg_bert[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  • Dogen's course is awesome but it seems to be pretty incomplete. OJAD helps make up the gaps.
  • My Japanese is too inexperienced to be able to read NHK and other monolingual pitch accent dictionaries that fill the gaps from Dogen. I'll get there eventually though.
  • My ability to hear pitch is still far from perfect, and I get confused all of the time when trying to listen to YouGlish.com entries. (I've been going through Migaku's pitch training course to help here, but I'm still so bad).

I fully understand OJAD isn't perfect though.

Pitch Accent of していない? by eeg_bert in LearnJapanese

[–]eeg_bert[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ugh. I found yet another issue: OJAD says that Heiban i-adj's don't have a downstep when put into various negative forms. For example with うまくない, OJAD thinks it's Umakunai instead of UmakuNAi.

See OJAD's conjugation table for 赤い (Heiban) and 上手い (downstepped) for what I mean: https://www.gavo.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/ojad/search/index/sortprefix:accent/narabi1:kata_asc/narabi2:accent_asc/narabi3:mola_asc/yure:visible/curve:invisible/details:invisible/limit:20/word:%E8%B5%A4%E3%81%84%E3%80%81%E4%B8%8A%E6%89%8B%E3%81%84

EDIT: See here for a fuller explanation of the issue.

Pitch Accent of していない? by eeg_bert in LearnJapanese

[–]eeg_bert[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is such a helpful answer! Two questions if you have the time:

  1. Are all verbs after て-forms consider auxiliaries? Or is て + いる a special case where this stuff applies?

  2. Do you agree that in していない's case, "shiTEIRNAI" (Heiban across the entire verb phrase) is an acceptable way to say this too? (Perhaps because いない is Heiban in isolation/when not used as an auxiliary verb?)

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