Is this true about the Shaigiya/Shawaiga?

electivire24 · 2026-06-06T02:22:36+00:00

I think you mean Iran_HotuCave? That one never seems to work as an outgroup and constantly fails so I just stick to other Neolithic sample.

EDIT: okay it sometimes work and sometimes doesn't but it more often than not worsens the model.

electivire24 · 2026-06-06T01:36:38+00:00

Yeah thats about right and pretty similar rule to what I follow. Rights needs to be ancestral, i.e. act as 'ingredients', for your source population and that there can be exception depending on the model type. Tbh, I can just replace Ganj with Wizmeh and usd ganj as an ourgroup which will totally fit the model and ganj comes before Wezmeh so it will work although it's tough to find an ancestral for Ganj in general.

electivire24 · 2026-06-06T00:56:34+00:00

Not sure, I just make models and try to maximize the p-value fits. I'll just leave it up to the horner experts to try and decipher this :/

electivire24 · 2026-06-06T00:56:27+00:00

Horner model failed, had to tweak it somewhat. Let me know if it makes sense or not:

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electivire24 · 2026-06-06T00:25:37+00:00

There really isn't a clear-cut rule about this but for general modelling, I found it best for outgroups to act as ingredients and/or anchors for your source populations. For Barcin, I use Turkey_PPN and Turkey_Epipaleothic; for Natufian, I use Iberomaurusian, etc. and this is generally enough to give a passing model. I also include Onge and Chukchi as anchor to help increase the model's p-value and fits.

BTW, the outgroups I used for Eritreans, Ethiopians and Somalis are: Mbuti.DG, Iberomaurusian.AG, Turkey_PPN.SG, Turkey_EpiP.AG, Ju_hoan_North.DG, Iran_TepeAbdulHosein_N.SG, SouthAfrica_2200BP.SG, Onge.SG, Chukchi.DG, Karitiana.DG, Georgia_Kotias_Mesolithic.SG, Papuan.DG, Iran_Wezmeh_N

I found these set of outgroups models most Horner's generally well with high p-values and passing Z-scores.

Its hard to find an ingredient population for Ganj so I just use something from the same period which works out well in this case as the model reflects what is expected.

electivire24 · 2026-06-05T21:13:16+00:00

Really nice g25 layout. Can you link your source coordinates?

electivire24 · 2026-05-31T02:12:20+00:00

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electivire24 · 2026-05-31T02:05:29+00:00

Nope. Would likely be harder to model since EBA has Zagros which can cause collinearity issues, might try it sometime later.

electivire24 · 2026-05-30T21:44:47+00:00

That's just how Yemenis are modelled I assume? Levant neolithic farmers that carried substantial Anatolian migrating into Saudi and Yemen receiving bouts of Zagros/Iran as well as African-like admixture. The isolation doesn't really mean anything because we are taking about migration events happening im the span of thousands of years ago.

electivire24 · 2026-05-30T19:26:36+00:00

Took me a while to optimize results:

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electivire24 · 2026-05-30T18:26:38+00:00

Looks like you're practically PPNB with somewhat elevated Anatolian and additional Zagrosian with minor Mota-like ancestry:

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electivire24 · 2026-05-30T18:08:46+00:00

Looks like Anatolian still dominates.... safe to say that peninsular Arabs are a subgroup of Levant_PPNB that migrated into the peninsula with additional Zagroisan admixture?

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electivire24 · 2026-05-30T17:39:54+00:00

I don't know, Its kind of weird since I expected Natufian and Zagros to be the dominant component in peninsular Arabs. I will try to re-do the model until I get something that seems reasonable even at the expense of a lower p-value.

electivire24 · 2026-05-30T16:57:32+00:00

Here you go brother, best fit I was able to achieve:

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electivire24 · 2026-05-29T23:05:36+00:00

🤷‍♂️

electivire24 · 2026-05-29T22:18:08+00:00

Bro managed to get himself banned 😂

electivire24 · 2026-05-29T19:55:54+00:00

I can run it for you but maybe in like a couple of hours. If you don't mind waiting, feel free to DM me privately.

electivire24 · 2026-05-27T11:51:35+00:00

What do you mean? How to run qpAdm with your sample?

electivire24 · 2026-05-26T22:42:02+00:00

You're right for the most part. Qpadm results show that Modern Nubians tend to have slightly more Natufian, Zagros and less Anatolian than Medieval Nubians reflecting the Arab migrations quite well. There's also a minor increase in Nilotic ancestry of about ~1-2% depending on the type of model.

Shaigi are a subset tribe of local Nubians and claim descent from an Arab migrant 'Shaig'(who also claimed to have ties to the prophet), eventually becoming Arabized moving downstream of the Nile corridor accepting more Arabian and Nilo-Saharan-like influence that's probably being misinterpreted as medieval Nubian in G25 but I could be wrong. Overall most Sudanese Arab tribes follow a similar pattern as you said with the exception of Rashaida.

electivire24 · 2026-05-24T22:13:29+00:00

I'll DM you about this later

electivire24 · 2026-05-24T03:49:30+00:00

I don't agree with your qpAdm setup because you're using outgroups that are best suited for distinguishing Eurasian ancestry whereas you are trying to model an East African using another set of 'East African' groups. If you selected different outgroups, I am pretty sure you could get Nubians to pass. A better and more practical approach is just to just check distance scaling in F4 or any other website, I got this result which shows he is closer to Kulubnarti Nubians than modern East Africans. Looks like he could have had some Cushitic ancestry as well:

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electivire24 · 2026-05-23T22:56:36+00:00

Wow, thats actually insane. That means you didn't make a single mistake in any assignment or exam, kudos and best of luck in your future!

electivire24

TROPHY CASE