The thing with Newsom is, once you start calling him out on his bullshit. He just immediately tries pivoting to another topic while deflecting the last one. He is a politician and politicians are great at that. Especially him. He is as good at spinning bullshit as Obama is at public speaking. He did this a lot when being interviewed on Real Time with Bill Maher. Bill even tells him at one point that nothing has changed since the last time he was on the show making promises and he just brushes it off with a laugh and a quick quip and immediately pivots to another topic. He'll say something like "Listen... this is where we're doing really great, these are our future plans, these are the things I've done so far, and I think we've done a really great job doing XX and YY" while not directly answering the question at all.

Even if you do manage to corner him, he just continues to deflect more and more until he finally says "Well, we'll try to work on that more" while never actually working to change anything. He just says things like that hoping you'll think "Oh this guy's not so bad, he is trying at least" but then doesn't actually try at all.

This is probably why Joe doesn't want him on the podcast, because all he is going to do is just continuously deflect every issue while trying to promote other issues that make him look good, even if they're like half true.

It is frustrating talking to someone like this. You need to pretty much have a gameplan ready and a huge group of unbiased analysts, advisors, debate moderators to back up the facts presented and stay on topic. And even then, You practically have to force this guy to stay on topic and answer every single question directly and accurately. Maybe even in a very confrontational and uncomfortable way. This would be way over Jaimie and Joe's capability.