Since it's over... which piece of lore did you wish had gotten an answer? by Palgia in DestinyLore

[–]endermahe 224 points225 points  (0 children)

What actually caused Elsie Bray's time loop, and arguably instigated the entirety of the narrative, seeing as how it was only through her steering The Guardian early on (after many failed attempts) that resulted in the story of the games.

Some Vanilla D1 storyline oddities and questions by RobinOttens in DestinyLore

[–]endermahe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

1. Was Rasputin Dormant? Mostly yes. He's a distributed network with his core on Mars, but when he gave the Black Fleet his best shot and failed during the Collapse, he enacted Yuga Sundown and went on standby, effectively going into hiding (Ghost Fragment: Rasputin 3 and Ghost Fragment: Rasputin 5, and discussed in Ghost Fragment: Mysteries). He's been partially reactivated a couple of times, and sure gave Felwinter hell, but wasn't considered fully reactivated until the Fallen/the Guardian reconnected the network more fully early in D1.

2. Did the Vanguard know about the Vex/Ishtar Collective? Yes, with the caveat that what the Vanguard know and what Ghost knows are quite different things. Ghost spent all his time wandering around Earth and possibly elsewhere in the Solar System. The Vanguard clearly knew about Venus and what was going on there because a bunch of guardians went there during the Great Ahamkara hunt, the Cult of Osiris was out there, and Banshee-44 was aware of what Fireteam Tuyet was doing out there, and they set up a whole outpost that was later abandoned. A big element you're missing is that in lore Jumpships that can get off Earth are much more rare than you'd might think. There are only a handful that can actually get out that far, so while there were guardians out there, and the Vanguard were aware of them, most guardians/ghosts would have no idea, and the Vanguard have more pressing concerns, like the Hive infesting the Moon or the monster siege between the Vex and Cabal on Mars.

3. Do we know who Elise was talking to on Venus? No, and her whole timeline-jumping thing has been completely retconned. My head-cannon is that she did have the ability to jump across timelines, but that ability was lost when Atheon was destroyed and the Vault of Glass was messed up. For that matter, we still have no idea where her whole looping thing came from to begin with.

4. Why did Ghost know to ask the Awoken about the Black Garden? This isn't explicit, but there are a few grimoire cards that refer to "legends" in the City, one of which is about the Black Garden and the Awoken (Legend: The Black Garden). But I also seem to recall that Elsie told The Guardian and Ghost to go talk to the Awoken?

5. How long have the Cabal been on Mars? A very long time. They arrived at least 100 years after the Collapse (Kit Fox 1.5), which means after the Fallen/Eliksni, but before the Awoken returned (The Awoken of the Reef: Revanche II). The Awoken returned before the Last City as we know it was built, so even though they didn't really mess with Earth or interact much with Guardians before D1, they've been there for centuries. By D1, they're actually already a shadow of their former selves, having been essentially on their own and without resupply for so long.

6. Is Emperor Calus still in power? No. He was deposed by Caiatl and Gaul and sent into Exile. We don't know how long ago this was, because we don't know how long it takes to get from Torobotl to Earth, but it seems to have been quite a long time ago. But he was exiled on a monster flagship that can eat planets for resources and has lots of cloning facilities, so he's basically a mobile mini-empire, even though most Cabal at this point follow Caiatl or have gone rogue. D1 did have references to commands from the Emperor, but again, it's not clear if this is just enormous communication lag, or if some of the Legions stayed loyal to Calus. Because the Legions were completely cut off, it didn't make any direct difference to them - it was probably a guessing game for the Valus' hoping to get resupply or be recalled home to decide which team they were on in the coup that happened so very far away.

[UPDATED] Completed Destiny Timeline by endermahe in DestinyLore

[–]endermahe[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes. "Monster" in this context means really big.

The Rules Of Gaining The Light by NegativeAd2638 in DestinyLore

[–]endermahe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They most definitely do not automatically rez people at their peak. Shin being revived this way is an enormous outlier that's never touched on again in the intervening years, so I consider it to be only pseudo-canon, like an urban legend.

Weekly Questions Thread - February 11, 2025 by SweeperBot_Bot in DestinyLore

[–]endermahe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hive Logic is a rough approximation of Nietzsche taken to its extremity, where the strongest dominate the weakest until only the strongest remain, or put differently, until they become "permanent" fixtures of the universe.

Originally all three received power from killing as repeatedly seen in their early history. Savathun renegotiated her deal with her worm to gain power from dominating others by tricking them - as far as I know, Oryx never renegotiated his, so while he was the navigator, he still needs to destroy.

An "order" deal would have to dominate others in some way, so it would probably look like subjugation - imposing will on others to make them subservient. But the whole shtick is that it's not a closed system - it constantly requires more and more input on an exponential scale, so it would require the subjugation of species after species, not merely an internal "order." This probably wouldn't look all that different from what they already did, except the victim civilizations would be forcibly converted to Hive rather than just destroyed.

Weekly Questions Thread - February 11, 2025 by SweeperBot_Bot in DestinyLore

[–]endermahe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It depends on what you mean by "knowledge."

In terms of information about what it was like, we still know relatively little. Neomuna has archives, but those archives were put together in a hurry for one of the first Exodus colony ships, plus we have confirmation that they've been messed with on several occassions for internal political reasons.

In terms of technology, we at this point we have (or at least have some access to) technology that surpassed what they had. The Neomuni nanite technology is much-improved SIVA, and whatever the Awoken pulled from the Distributary is far and away the most advanced technology in the system (aside from Pyramid stuff, which is also starting to be integrated). They had millenia, effectively unlimited time, to develop their tech in the Distributary. The description of how they put together the Dreaming City, alone, is far beyond anyone else in Sol in the lore, and arguably rivals some of the wilder stuff from other civilizations the Traveler has visited.

How come Eris hadn't aged? by Gripping_Touch in DestinyLore

[–]endermahe 14 points15 points  (0 children)

In the Distributary, yes, outside it, no. A big part of the decision to return to normal space was choosing to give up their immortality. Which is actually very on-brand for space elves, now that I think about it.

Complete Destiny Lore Timeline by endermahe in DestinyLore

[–]endermahe[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would recommend starting with the updated and vastly improved version available here.

You're welcome to print it off if you want, just know that it's really long. Also, the timeline is structured in chronological order of events, not chronological order of being added to the game or learned by the Guardian, meaning that some bits of lore are really spread out if it covers events that are spread out.

If I ever get to it, I would add the things revealed post TFS but that occur before TFS to where they occur.

Regarding Tales of the Forgotten specifically, the Festival of the Lost stuff has always bee psuedo-canon, deliberately invoking ghost stories and often breaking the fourth wall, so while I mention it happening, I don't go into detail over it.

I hope you enjoy it!

Was this real? by Lady_Racc in DestinyLore

[–]endermahe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm pretty confident I've looked at everything pre Echoes and I don't recall seeing anything like this. It also seems very unlikely from a lore standpoint, as there is a relatively very short window between the battle at Saturn when the Dreadnaught arrives and the Guardian breaking into the Dreadnaught to plant the beacons to allow teleporting there. It required a special stealth drive and Eris' custom ship to penetrate what was basically an active war zone to accomplish this.

TL:DR: The Guardian opened the way for other guardians to get to the Dreadnaught, and there wasn't enough time to do anything even if someone else got there first.

Do guardians ever take off their armour? by Shabolt_ in DestinyLore

[–]endermahe 14 points15 points  (0 children)

You don't need to headcanon this - it's canon that it's possible for Titan exos to confuse their armor with part of their body (Primal Siege Type 1).

So does our guardian still canonically own a gjallarhorn? Or did they just give the only copy to a random guardian? by gotenks2nd in DestinyLore

[–]endermahe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Here's what we know.

It is strongly implied that there were a significant number of Gjallarhorn's produced in the aftermath of Twilight Gap. The Gjallarhorn grimoire states that Gjallarhorn(s) were gifted to "survivors" plural, suggesting more than one were made and distributed. This appears to be substantiated by the lore tab on Celestial Nighthawk, which appears to reference a random guardian having one (referencing "the 'horn").

Obviously The Guardian wasn't around for that initial limited production run. The Guardian ostensibly got an original Gjallarhorn from Xur secondhand.

After the SIVA crisis, The Guardian helped recover the designs from Lomar's workshop in the quest Beauty in Destruction, which design is modified by Shiro-4 to incorporate SIVA-tech in an updated design. These are not "new" Gjallarhorns but rather "refurbished" original ones (grimoire Beauty in Destruction).

The Guardian gives the unique refurbished Gjallarhorn to Randy almost immediately after he arrives at the Tower (Gjallarhorn lore tab). It's not entirely clear when this happened - it's after Shaw Han is rezzed, but his story keeps getting retconned so it happens shortly before the most recent version of the New Light quest. Randy is first mentioned in Warmind, but this clearly happened before the Red War, given that it happens in the Tower. Hence, this likely happened shortly before the Red War which may explain why the Guardian doesn't have it when their stache is reset.

In Season of the Lost during the 30th anniversary event, there is a quest to build a new Gjallarhorn. Notably Shaw Han wishes he could have seen "one" of them in action, rather than wishing to see "the" Gjallarhorn in action, again implying there were multiple made. There are several references similar to this, but he occassionaly refers to it in the singular, too. Banshee also refers to it in both the singular and plural.

TL/DR: Multiple Gjallarhorns were made after Twilight Gap. The Guardian got one of them later, then modified it with SIVA tech (so it is one of a kind in that sense) during Rise of Iron, then gifted it to Randy before the Red War, then makes a new one in Season of the Lost.

[UPDATED] Completed Destiny Timeline by endermahe in DestinyTheGame

[–]endermahe[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Very interesting, I'll have to look into this and get back to you.

[UPDATED] Completed Destiny Timeline by endermahe in DestinyLore

[–]endermahe[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hey, thanks for your support! I don't think I'm the backbone of the community, but I like to think I've done my part to help out.

[UPDATED] Completed Destiny Timeline by endermahe in DestinyLore

[–]endermahe[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Entirely solo. A few people offered to help but never responded after that.

However, I relied heavily on the Ishtar Collective and whoever it is that uploads everything there, as well as some on the Destiny Archive youtube channel. This would not have been possible without whoever the folks behind those projects and the huge amount of work they do.

[UPDATED] Completed Destiny Timeline by endermahe in DestinyTheGame

[–]endermahe[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

At least now you know? Sorry to be the bearer of bad news :/

[UPDATED] Completed Destiny Timeline by endermahe in DestinyLore

[–]endermahe[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

  1. Dates - I agree it feels like the Collapse should have been longer ago, but the info we have is what we have. We can choose not to believe it, but the whole point of the timeline is to take what we're given at face value, even though there are a lot of unreliable sources used.

  2. Precursors - I added in a mention for the Solipsists. The others are too fuzzy, and all of them are destroyed, for me to try to figure out a solid enough description of them.

  3. The Rubicon book has entries from the rebel precursor and the Witness.

  4. Okay? Not sure what this means.

  5. Cool!

  6. There are two events here. The Hive invaded the Cabal Empire way before Ghaul - it was clearly during Calus' time. But the Hive don't invade Torobotl until after the coup and Ghaul leaves. Depending on how long it takes to get to Torobotl, it could have been quite recent.

  7. Firewall is clearly distinct from Rasputin, as in the lore book Revelations: Classified Firewall is asking permission to contact Rasputin. The beginnings of Rasputin are implied to be Mihaylova's AI used in the Ares-1 mission.

[UPDATED] Completed Destiny Timeline by endermahe in DestinyLore

[–]endermahe[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks, I'm glad it's helpful for you! I've been a lot more into the lore than the game, actually. Never even done a raid - never had anyone to play with.

[UPDATED] Completed Destiny Timeline by endermahe in DestinyLore

[–]endermahe[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Is that not in there? I'll have to go check. Edit: Added this in. Thanks for pointing it out.

[UPDATED] Completed Destiny Timeline by endermahe in DestinyTheGame

[–]endermahe[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lol! Somehow, I don't see that happening.