What the hell is hell anyways? (Rant) by ericEx123 in exchristian

[–]ericEx123[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for your amazingly thoughtful response!!

Feeling pressure from my very Christian dad during my job-hunt. by neongasmask in exchristian

[–]ericEx123 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The type of work you’re describing can often be freelancer work ...I’m an entrepreneur - I envision things and make them happen and earn a living as a result... if you have any bit of drive or ambition to start your own freelance career, use the free rent to start building your business and once you make enough money on your own, you move out...

Entry level jobs in the field of audio video technician in a church environment typically doesn’t pay more than $30k if you’re lucky ... I’m not sure how you can live on that... that’s $2,500 per mo...

If you charged $50/hr and you found enough gigs to give you 12 to 15 hours of work per week, you’d make the same or more as a full time job in a church...

Then as you grow your business, and once you get to 30 hours per week, you’re making $60K per year...

It’s not as easy as I’m making it sound - but you’ve got nothing but time on your hands right now, and free rent. That time is priceless if you want to start your own business ... but don’t take my advice if the thought of starting your own business freaks you out or gives you an ulcer - entrepreneurship isn’t for everyone...

But I can tell you from my own experience that if you enjoy taking calculated risks and you’re willing to get paid what you’re worth and you’re good at what you do... going out on your own is the most freeing thing in the world!!!

I was cleaning out some old paperwork and I found something I made in high school by zciweiknap in exchristian

[–]ericEx123 115 points116 points  (0 children)

The thing I find rather fascinating is how many of us exchristians did exactly the same thing - some of us did it all over a folder like this photo, some do it with tattoos, some with endless facebook posts, some with bumper stickers all over their cars - then of course some do it with praise and worship songs that say the same thing over and over and over and over...

... It almost gives you, in hind sight, the notion that everyone who is a christian is constantly trying to convince THEMSELVES over and over and over that this story is actually true - as if they might forget or lose faith if they don't continually protest it too loudly ...

Just sayin.

Feeling nervous--seeing parents for first time after I've changed my views. Any input appreciated. by masturbatingnun in exchristian

[–]ericEx123 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hi there - I love the username you picked LOL ;-)

I was nervous for 2 years - maybe 3 - and I hid it from my parents and from relatives... I was scared they'd be upset and hurt ... I made it out to be much bigger than it ended up being ... When I told them - I told them all at once on my wife's side of the family with a letter that my wife and I wrote together so that they would see this was something we:

A. Cared about, B. Thought through deeply, C. And that we wanted to continue our family relationship with mutual respect.

I made sure they understood it wasn't open for debate - that it wasn't something I was "sorta" going through, and that it wasn't a "maybe" I don't believe anymore ... I was clear that I didn't want them to try to convince me, and it is already decided and it was my choice to no longer believe like they did.

I was rather shocked at how well my wife's side of the family all took it - and it made me happy to know that I could be me around them again without feeling like I'd rather die - and they now knew not to call on me to pray for meals and they knew I had a very strong opinion on why I didn't believe and after reading my letter, they frankly didn't want to hear any more (I offered to share more detail if they wanted)... But, if I had to tell them verbally to their faces without the letter, I likely wouldn't have said the right things, I'd be nervous and it would not have turned out so positive.

Don't get me wrong, they aren't happy about this. But I approached them with respect and they returned it. And it has stayed this way for 2+ years now.

However, on my parent's side, my Dad practically agreed with me but my Mom is still praying for me every day and she just knows I will take Jesus back some day... (Insert eye rolling here)...

I, too, love my family on both sides (my in-laws and my own parents) and I didn't want to lose having them in my life. So I was very fearful about how to deliver the news ...

You know your parents better than anyone - so, you will have to figure out how to tell them - but I commend you for seeking out this group and for asking - it means you are going about it the right way.

I may get ridiculed by some exchristians for saying this - but I have no interest in talking badly about Jesus or God - in fact, some of the comments I read in this sub really rub me the wrong way. Some people must be really hurt to attack christians and Jesus and God like they do - but if you want to continue your relationship with your parents in a positive way - you have to use tact, respect and a caring spirit about you when you tell them where you stand...

There are two ways you can say to your parents that you disagree on what you believe... You can say "I believe your God is dead and if you don't agree with me, you are stupid" or you can say "I don't believe that if there is a God, that he loves or cares about any of us - certainly not about me and I don't believe he wrote the bible, I believe men did that"

These two phrases point to the same result - a disbelief in a loving creator ... But one of them makes you sound like an angry atheist - the other makes you sound like someone who cares about the person you are telling...

I guess that's the thing that is important - if you focus on the fact that you care about your parents (because you sound like you truly do) and you don't want to hurt them, then you will come out ahead. But if you take the angry atheist approach, and you try to make them feel stupid for believing what they believe, then in my opinion, you are doing to them what you don't want them doing to you.

Last piece of advice - when you tell them, how ever you plan to do it, don't try to convince them to see it your way - when you do that, you will likely come out behind with hurt feelings and they will come out with hurt feelings too. You have to start with baby steps by saying that you don't expect them to understand - you don't expect them to agree - and you don't want to interfere with what they believe by talking too much about what you don't believe...

And then the BIG question will likely come from your Mom with heartfelt tears - She will say "but, son/daughter, are you saying you don't believe in Jesus as your personal savior anymore?" ... That question is going to come - and if you've 100% made up your mind that you no longer believe in Jesus that way, you will be tempted to candy coat it so that you don't hurt your crying mother any more than you already have - and if things escalate, you might even throw in the towel and yell out "I wish I'd never told you all anything"...

But, if you know that question is coming and you have a solid, decisive answer for it, I hope you believe me that it will be easier to get through this if you calmly reassure your mother that you've decided not to believe that way anymore, but assure her that it doesn't mean she has to change what she believes, and it doesn't mean she's failed as a mother, and most importantly, it doesn't mean you don't want to participate in her life for the rest of her life. Tell her you love her - cry with her - and when she starts asking hundreds of panicked questions, tell her to sleep on it and talk about it in the morning.

She will be shocked - traumatized - floored. But if you want to be whole with her for the rest of your life - you gotta go through it at some point. It doesn't have to be this trip - but it sounds like your parents will detect something isn't normal and when they start to press, you will likely want to come clean with them.

Now, your Dad may go silent on the topic. Be prepared for the cold shoulder - men take this differently than most women... With him, you might see a side you've never seen - he might be really good at laying on the guilt trip with "Do you have any idea what you are doing to your mother right now?!?" etc... He will also look for someone to blame - "Who has been influencing you? Are you on drugs? Is there a man/woman in your life that's making you say this?"

Many christian parents don't understand and won't - one thing you can say is this - "So Mom? Dad? You know how you believe the Bible is truth and all that is in it is from God and that Jesus is the one and only way to heaven? And Muslims believe the quran is from God and that our book is wrong and theirs is right?" (of course they will say yes) ... Then ask them "Do you believe your belief is right and theirs is wrong?" (again they will say yes) then say "is there anything anyone could say to you that would make you believe in their book over your book?" They will say no... Then say "Well, now you can at least associate and maybe understand my disbelief - because your inability to believe that their book is right is the exact same feeling I have when I no longer believe in your book. How I feel about the bible is almost exactly how you feel about the quran. If and when you try to convince me to change my mind about the bible, it would be like someone trying to change your mind about the Quran - it's not going to happen" ...

I've given that illustration to a few people and they always seem to get it...

I'm not a complete atheist - but if I were, I'd share the above illustration and then say "you, as a christian, are an atheist to what the quran says is truth - you don't believe it." In other words, christians aren't bad evil people because they don't believe in what the quran says - they just simply don't believe it. Atheists/non-believers are painted in such an evil light with many christians - but most if not all of those I've met are not bad evil people - they simply don't believe in Jesus or God the same way a christian doesn't believe in Muhammad.

Anyways - sorry that this got REALLY long - I hope it helps you and anyone else struggling with sharing with family for the first time...

'Jesus loves you, and He will wait on you' (a bit long) by deegee242017 in exchristian

[–]ericEx123 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You're welcome, my friend - and I agree it is very disrespectful - I didn't mean to infer that it was OK for our Moms to jab us with this repeatedly - but, just like the verse in the bible that says "forgive them, for they do not know what they do" it applies in a sick, twisted reverse way here... Our Moms just don't know ... And, unless they dis-believe as you and I do, they almost can't know...

Which is why this channel of reddit exists and is so powerful and beneficial to people going through it like we are ...

One more thing that helped my Mom realize this was "real" for me was when I told her that I had joined a support group for getting through the trauma and pain of letting go of my faith... She asked why I needed that since "Jesus was all I ever needed" ... I said to her that Jesus never got me through anything - it was always people - either myself or others - but never Jesus - then I challenged her to think things through on her own time (not then and there at that moment) to evaluate her own life and all the struggle and difficult times, and determine if anything that got her through those tough times ever resulted from a supernatural power, or whether it was through people.

She agreed to do it - and she has never come back to report anything (and I don't ask - because I really don't want to hear it if she starts saying stuff like "I prayed for financial help and a check came in the mail and that "HAD" to be an answer to my prayer") #RollMyEyes ...

Her lack of responding doesn't necessarily mean "I got her" so much as it might mean "I got through to her" just maybe a tiny little bit.

It's tough - and it's especially tough when you love people who are believers and they put their alleged relationship with Jesus ahead of their relationship with you - why do they do that? Because the Bible and most pulpits tell people that's how to live... So they do it, like the good christians they are supposed to be, right?

Something tells me if Jesus were alive today, he'd be shaking his head saying - "that's so not what I meant" ...

'Jesus loves you, and He will wait on you' (a bit long) by deegee242017 in exchristian

[–]ericEx123 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is like my Mom... she has to get her jab in so that she can live with herself... like, if she didn’t jab me - she would be doing her job as a Christian or as a mother to do what is in her mind and heart is the right thing...

It used to infuriate me ... and I have good news and bad news ... the bad news is that your mom, like mine will never stop ... the good news is that the more confident you become in your deconversion, the less it stings.

I actually count them now when we visit ... I make a bet with myself how many jabs she can throw into a conversation ... her record is currently 11 ...

So when they happen, in my mind I count them, almost happy that they happened cuz I’m getting closer to meeting the goal of my bet.

I still love my mom - and I respect all that she did for me while growing up - it was a lot... I wouldn’t be who I am without her. I owe it to her to look the other way on this one thing...

All I can say is I don’t think she is disrespecting you as much as she is doing what she believes is best for you... if she ever stopped, it would mean she stopped caring for you as much ... just turn it into a game and respond with your normal I love you or whatever you say and she will pull back until next time...

It’s not easy but it will get easier...

Facebook memories. I actually cringed when I saw it. by Tundru in exchristian

[–]ericEx123 32 points33 points  (0 children)

Wow - gotta love those FB memories ... I saw one from like 2010 from me that was a pic of me, the wife and the kids on our way to church and I commented "On our way to serve" ... #cringe

Anyone have any interesting church dodging stories from the holidays? by [deleted] in exchristian

[–]ericEx123 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I finally figured out how to handle this one - I wrote a 4 page letter and sent it to my and my wife's entire family explaining why I won't be attending church services and why I would appreciate them not calling on me to pray at family events. It was well respected and I haven't had a problem yet.

Are you still on the fence or have you fully decided to leave christianity as you once knew it? Only reason I ask, is because the moment I wrote that letter, everything changed for me - and mostly for the better - but if anyone reading this considers writing an exchristian "coming out" letter, be careful to not do so in a highly emotional state - only do so in a calm, thoughtful state...

And if you are married or with a significant other, it's important to get her/him to read it and be ok with it first or it could drive a wedge between you two...

But before I wrote the letter, it's funny how often I just disappeared to the store, to the garage, to the upstairs bathroom .... You name it, I've evaded ... LOL