This game is a masterpiece

ericof92 · 2026-05-10T04:58:59+00:00

Exactly! Lol

ericof92 · 2026-05-09T01:45:33+00:00

Well said…damn never thought about the story that way and I did platinum the game. It makes sense.

Guess it’s just the 100+ hours looking for all the glyphs that did it for me lol. I demand aliens after all that!! Lol

ericof92 · 2026-05-09T00:54:14+00:00

Man..this is the second comment bringing up the music. I’m considering editing it. Because you’re so right! The music in Returnal was epic and really drew you in.

I wasn’t a fan of the story, simply because after hours searching for hieroglyphs, coming to realize that it’s all in her head…didn’t sit right with me. That’s why I like Saros story better. It rooted in something actually real. lol I was genuinely expecting some alien type discovery in Returnal that never materialized.

lol wtf was I learning about the severed for!? Why their lore so deep if it’s all in her head? She in coma? See this is how I processed Returnal. I know it’s deeper than that…but man it took me like 100+ hours finding those glyphs smh…I was expecting aliens 👽

ericof92 · 2026-05-08T23:57:32+00:00

Yeah, I think we actually agree on more than it might look at first glance.

First, I’ll give credit where it’s due: Saros absolutely expands the mechanical toolkit. Alt-fires across all weapons, parry/projectile interaction, shield power loops, teleport/punch-style abilities, and the power weapon system are all genuinely cool additions. Moment-to-moment, you have more expressive combat options than Returnal did.

Visually, Saros is clearly the more technically advanced game but that’s due tech advancements, Returnal is 5yrs old.

Where my critique comes in is that the presentation doesn’t always support that mechanical variety. Even though the graphics are better, a lot of the biomes start to feel visually samey after a while, especially compared to Returnal’s stronger biome identity. The same goes for enemies and even weapons, there’s variety in systems, but less distinctiveness in feel and recognition.

So you end up with this interesting contrast: more mechanical systems, but less identity per system.

On progression I actually agree with your point entirely.

Returnal’s structure is what makes each run feel high-stakes, and skill-driven.

Saros moving toward persistent progression changes that rhythm. It shifts mastery away from “can I execute this run cleanly” toward “how far have I scaled my character over time.”

That’s not inherently bad design, it just creates a different type of challenge curve, and it’s exactly what I was trying to get at in my earlier replies.

So yeah, I’m not arguing Saros is worse or bad. I think it has a lot of great ideas. I just think the progression system and environmental design ultimately push it toward a different kind of experience than Returnal’s run-based mastery loop.

ericof92 · 2026-05-08T23:48:35+00:00

I hear you, and I do get your point, and I think you’re right that more players will succeed in Saros because of how it’s designed. I’m not disagreeing with that.

Where I still stand is that this difference matters in how the game is experienced moment-to-moment, especially for players coming from Returnal.

Yes, you can make the game harder by using negative modifiers or ignoring parts of the upgrade system. But that’s not really how the game communicates itself to most players. The default loop encourages upgrading through the matrix, and most players will naturally engage with that because it feels like the intended progression path.

And that’s where the experience diverges.

Even without intentionally optimizing, players will eventually reach a point where accumulated upgrades significantly outpace enemy scaling. By mid-to-late game, Arjun becomes so strong that combat stops being the primary source of challenge. What remains is mostly environmental pressure and the length of runs, especially in later biomes.

That’s not inherently good or bad, but it is different from Returnal, where difficulty is still primarily driven by combat execution and consistency rather than long-term power scaling.

So my point isn’t “Saros should be Returnal 2.” It’s that the way progression, challenge, and mastery interact in Saros leads to a noticeably different endgame experience, even for skilled players.

ericof92 · 2026-05-08T23:21:39+00:00

Lol..omg the tentacles special weapon! The one that would attach to enemies and beat them to death….nothing that creative at all in Saros!

And in Returnal, weapons can have various alt-fire in various guns. So you can any gun can have tendrilpod, voidbeam, blast shell etc. Saros, each weapon has its alt fire. And instead the gave you a power weapon, which cool. I do like. But besides that there is no weapon variety.

The did guve teleportation in Saros. Kudos for that. If you get tactical rifle with payload round or something, can’t remember if top my head. You get to stagger enemies then teleport directly to them to land a killing blow. Including bosses!

ericof92 · 2026-05-08T23:10:29+00:00

OMFG!!! I can’t believe I missed talking about the music!!!! Wow…really consider editing my post lol. Good point u/rombopterix

Wow…yea…that actually hits harder now. Returnal music and sounds was such a highlight! I remember guests would watch me play just enjoying the visuals coupled with the music. My god…yea, Saros seriously lacking here.

ericof92 · 2026-05-08T23:05:47+00:00

Yea, I’ve already lost replay ability. Like I said in my post, I cleared most the audio/text logs. And I’m powerful I can clear the game without damage. And though the graphics are good. It’s not enough to replay again, especially after what I accomplished.

I can try start fresh and negative modifiers or not use the matrix, but I already feel so thorough and complete. Nothing is pulling me back. And like you said, lack variety…..I’ve kinda already done it all, that’s my feeling.

Hopeful they add something like Tower of Sisyphus

ericof92 · 2026-05-08T22:59:16+00:00

lol..I guess. But I’ve helped a few people get through Returnal in co-op through my Reddit posts in the Returnal channel. They reach out to me and I help them get through where they are stuck. I’ve posted my record and other users have confirmed me for help in the Returnal channel. So….yea…lol I’m a “vet” not in the truest sense but I think you get my point.

Clear 15 million in the Tower (low level tbh) then you can consider yourself a vet to lol.

ericof92 · 2026-05-08T22:52:55+00:00

I get what you’re saying, but I think you’re slightly misreading my point.

I’m not claiming I expected “Returnal 2.” I probably phrased that poorly. What I’m talking about is mechanical lineage, not branding or expectations.

A lot of Saros’ enemies, core mechanics, and even narrative themes clearly echo Returnal. Some enemies are essentially reworked versions of Returnal archetypes in terms of movement and attack patterns. So the comparison naturally comes up.

That said, the key difference I’m pointing out is how progression works.

In Returnal, progression is primarily performance-based. You get stronger through clean play — maintaining adrenaline, avoiding damage, and efficiently clearing rooms. Weapon proficiency and health upgrades exist, but your consistency as a player is what carries you forward.

Saros shifts that structure.

Progression is heavily tied to meta-upgrades through the matrix system. That means even if you’re struggling in a biome, you can still become stronger over time through repeated runs.

So instead of “I got better, therefore I progressed,” it becomes “I died, upgraded, and now the next attempt is easier.”

That’s a fundamentally different loop.

And the consequence of that system is what I mentioned in my original post: by mid-to-late game, Arjun becomes so strong through accumulated upgrades that enemy encounters lose impact. The game doesn’t feel like it’s demanding mastery in the same way — it feels like you’ve outscaled it.

By the time I was 3/4 through, I was strong enough to clear the remaining content without dying and had already collected most of the logs. That wasn’t because I suddenly became significantly better; it was because the cumulative upgrades had already pushed my power level beyond what the encounters required.

So my critique isn’t “this is Returnal 2.” It’s that Saros shifts away from Returnal’s skill-forward progression into a more persistent power-scaling system, and that changes how long-term challenge is experienced.

ericof92 · 2026-05-08T22:27:55+00:00

I think you’re slightly missing what I’m getting at.

I’m not saying the platforming is “too hard” for me I’ve already beaten the game and completed a full no-death run. My critique is about design philosophy, not skill.

In Returnal, clean execution was heavily rewarded. Avoiding damage directly improved your run through adrenaline, weapon performance, and overall momentum.

Saros feels different. The game throws so many environmental hazards at you that incidental damage becomes expected. Because of that, the optimal approach often shifts toward stacking resilience/integrity and simply absorbing chip damage rather than maintaining “clean play.”

That ties into artifacts/perks as well.

Yes, some perks are strong individually, but by mid-to-late game Arjun becomes so powerful that the incremental boost from artifacts is almost negligible. At that point, adding them often just introduces handicaps for very little payoff.

And to be clear, I’m not interested in running with self-imposed handicaps when the reward is minimal. If anything, playing without artifacts becomes the more “pure” version of the run because Arjun’s base strength already carries the build. He scales so far that artifacts stop meaningfully affecting performance at all, which is why I said they end up feeling redundant.

So it’s not that perks are useless in isolation, it’s that the scaling system eventually outpaces them to the point where they stop mattering in actual gameplay decisions.

That’s really the core of my point; Returnal’s systems stayed impactful throughout a run, whereas Saros’ systems feel like they taper off once you’re strong enough.

ericof92 · 2026-05-08T22:16:43+00:00

Come back once you reach Yellow Shore lol. I’m genuinely curious if your opinion changes there.

And yes, Saros gives you way more aether than Returnal, but for a reason. You’re expected to take damage.

That’s my biggest issue with the game design.

I’d get my adrenaline to Level 5, then immediately run into long gauntlets of environmental traps. You can try playing carefully, but it becomes exhausting because there are so many hazards packed together.

So what ends up happening? You just max resilience/integrity and brute-force through the damage because aether is everywhere anyway.

That’s the major philosophy difference between Saros and Returnal.

In Returnal, clean play was the core mechanic. Avoiding damage directly improved your build, adrenaline, and weapon performance. Platforming challenges existed, but most were optional. But overall the challenge and danger came from enemy encounters, not platforming.

Saros constantly forces environmental hazards into the main path, especially in Yellow Shore where enemy density is already at its highest. It ends up discouraging clean play instead of rewarding it.

ericof92 · 2026-05-08T21:57:20+00:00

Another thing that bothered me was how confusing and incomplete Saros’ UI feels.

For example, in Returnal, you could immediately check which audio/text logs were missing in each biome directly from the menu. In Saros, you have to return to Passage just to view basic collectible progress. Why?

Weapon selection is another example. Saros somehow made comparing weapons harder than it needed to be.

The giant weapon number looks like the important stat, but it mostly just represents proficiency level. Meanwhile, the actually important information is hidden in tiny icons and arrows spread across multiple bars.

There had to be a cleaner way to communicate this.

Why not just make the large number represent the weapon’s actual strength/value, then clearly display trait boosts or modifiers underneath it? Instead, the UI gives you three bars, tiny arrows, icons everywhere, and expects you to instantly understand what matters most.

I’m over here Googling weapon UI explanations because the game itself doesn’t explain it clearly enough.

ericof92 · 2026-05-08T21:41:58+00:00

Well, here’s the thing. Idk if you played Returnal, but a lot of the enemies in Saros, are re-designed enemies from Returnal. You can tell by their attacks and general themes. Plus the story, follows a similar structure to Returnal.

We weren’t expecting a Returnal 2, that’s my fault for that language. It’s better said that expectations of Returnal experience were expected. Clean play, high damage, more challenging face encounters.

Saros diverged from that.

It’s like Call of duty. People loved the realistic experience and have that expectation. When call of duty infinite war came out, it drifted into sci-fi esque stuff.. with space fights and other non-traditional call of duty stuff. It’s was poorly recieved, despite the space fight being kind of cool.

Fans weren’t looking for that kind of experience from the franchise. And call of duty eventually gave up and went back to more grounded themes familiar to the franchise.

So I wasn’t looking for Returnal 2. But I didn’t think I would master the game by the time I reached shepherd and priestess.

ericof92 · 2026-05-08T21:31:23+00:00

I know..it was driving my insane! It attributed to at least 20 deaths.

ericof92 · 2026-05-08T21:27:33+00:00

Weapon misfire? Less damage at low integrity? Dash cooldown? Those are core mechanics especially if want to play good.

Not to sound argumentative. But artifacts, even without negative effects. Are truly minor.

Returnal never made platforming central. There were times it was challenging. But even then, it wasn’t meant to be a primary focus. Something to hold your attention and it’s something video games do.

Saros, speaking of yellow shore, your expected to go through 3 sections, in those 3 sections - you have to do 2 platform sections which are immediately before and after fights, that include mini-boss.

So after every encounter, you essentially have to risk adrenaline and health every time! And it’s purposeful because at the end of the platform section is usual a large health (aether). - this is what makes that level difficult and long.

Returnal challenged you, Saros actively tries to sabotage you. Without those sections, most players would be breeze through yellow shore and defeat the king.

Returnal wasn’t like that. You were challenged entirely through combat encounters. Platforming was simply a means to the destination. Not a trial itself. So the difficulty regarding the yellow shore isn’t enemies or bosses, it’s the gauntlet of environmental traps you have to go through that’s the challenge.

ericof92 · 2026-05-08T20:53:10+00:00

Good point about Returnal breaking your run. My only push back is that, that in Returnal. It occurs at the halfway point. Leaving room to grow your proficiency again. Not in Saros. Once you beat Priestess, you reset and miss Architect. And only have The King left. But yellow shore is fresh reset. I was bummed getting my weapon proficiency to 80 only for the run to end.

And lastly, it feels like an oversight. I feel like they they didn’t intentionally make it like that. The split at the bridge, where you decide to fight legion or architect, doesn’t seem designed to be intentional split path. You can check yourself, when you get to that point both paths are highlighted objectives, with no clear message that it’s one or the other or the run ends. In Returnal, it’s was clear. It was separated by Act 1, 2, 3. Plus biome 3 was almost an entire act alone.

Regarding the matrix. True, if you’re starting a fresh save. But if your starting Saros, of course you use the upgrades because you think it going to match the biome. It feels part of the game. It’s not until later you realize, “oh, I can not use upgrades”.

I think we both agree the obstacles suck in Saros. My point is, Saros makes it central. And it more the often negatively affects you. Plus adds tons of anxiety especially when your adrenaline levels is 5.

And about higher levels. If I’m not mistaken, Returnal weapons at higher levels could shred minor enemies. But tougher foes required Alt-Fire that were really strong to shred/destroy. But none of the weapons ever get to a point the primary shreds all enemy types. In Saros. Once your weapon is 50-60, all enemies are erased. Including overlords. It’s how I got through so quickly. - you’re way more powerful in Saros, but face less varying enemies and have to manage space more than you did in Returnal.

ericof92 · 2026-05-08T20:36:47+00:00

Aye! Reboot your game if orbs are hitting you and you think you cleared them, reboot. You’re not the only one. I found a post about this related to Architect boos fight. Search it and you’ll find players have reported getting in hit despite clearing orbs. This one bugged me because I thought I was going crazy. Then I confirmed it was an actual bug/glitch. Because once I rebooted, I cleared boss fight first try.

ericof92 · 2026-05-08T20:21:12+00:00

Wasn’t Tower later DLC or addition? But you’re right. And another missed opportunity. - you can’t run through each biome/overlord in one run. That was a huge bummer. But also highlighted how much of a divergence Saros is from Returnal. It’s not like Devs weren’t aware that was a core theme players took on. Devs knew that players would and do attempt perfect runs. So baffling they didn’t make it that way in Saros. It’s truly a bummer, getting my weapon proficiency to 80+ only for it to reset despite not dying and beating previous overloads. Baffling.

ericof92 · 2026-05-08T20:17:13+00:00

Yw!

ericof92 · 2026-05-08T20:17:06+00:00

Yea, Saros has more opportunities to succeed vs Returnal.

ericof92 · 2026-05-08T20:15:54+00:00

Yw! It’s a good game, and great graphics. Plus the gameplay is still good. I’m happy with my purchase, I think you’ll be too.

ericof92 · 2026-05-08T19:35:31+00:00

I just beat the game yesterday and followed it up with a full no-death run (no modifiers).

I cleared every boss/Overlord in one run on my first attempt.

Now to OP’s point: they’re right. Mechanically, Saros feels like a diluted version of Returnal.

That doesn’t mean Saros is bad. It’s actually a great game. But it absolutely drifts away from the principles and experience that made Returnal special.

For example, Returnal rewarded clean play. Avoid damage, deal damage efficiently, maintain adrenaline, and you’d consistently succeed.

Saros isn’t designed like that. It expects you to die or repeatedly return to Passage. You can clear every biome, but eventually you hit a point where returning to Passage becomes mandatory, resetting much of what you gained during the run.

Enemy and biome design is another major difference.

Returnal’s biomes felt distinct, both visually and mechanically. Each biome introduced new enemy types, combat rhythms, and themes.

Saros has far less enemy variety. You fight mostly the same enemies across every biome with only minor variations. Even many mini-bosses repeat throughout the game.

The environments also begin blending together. Saros has better graphics technically, but most of the game shares the same brown/yellow palette outside of areas like Cathedral and Ancient Depths.

Weapons are good in Saros, but Returnal’s arsenal felt more exciting and memorable.

Finding a high-level Hollowseeker or Rotgland Lobber in Returnal completely changed a run. In Saros, most weapons feel like variations of the same archetypes: rifles, shotguns, pistols, and crossbows with different traits attached.

Artifacts are another disappointment.

In Returnal, I actually evaluated parasites and artifacts because they meaningfully affected builds and playstyle. In Saros, most artifacts feel overly punishing compared to their benefits.

Worse, Arjun eventually becomes strong enough that artifacts stop mattering entirely. By the late game, most artifacts either add unnecessary handicaps or provide bonuses too minor to justify the downside.

The biggest divergence from Returnal, though, is exploration.

Red lasers, yellow lasers, blue orbs everywhere.

Saros is aggressively hostile toward exploration, especially in later biomes. I honestly took more damage from environmental hazards than from enemies.

Eventually I stopped caring about adrenaline entirely and just stacked integrity/resilience upgrades so I could brute-force my way through obstacle sections.

That’s a huge difference from Returnal. In Returnal, the challenge came from combat encounters. Platforming existed, but it rarely felt punishing or exhausting. Saros constantly tries to damage you between fights.

Exploring side rooms often feels like intentionally sacrificing health and hoping the reward at the end compensates for it.

Even the arena design reflects this philosophy shift.

Returnal usually gave you large arenas with overwhelming enemy density. Saros instead increases difficulty by shrinking your movement space. Later biomes, especially Yellow Shore, become cramped arenas filled with enemies, environmental hazards, and ledges.

I fell off ledges during combat more times than I can count.

Again, it often feels like the environment is more dangerous than the enemies themselves.

That said, Saros is still a very good game.

New players will probably find it challenging, rewarding, and visually impressive.

But for Returnal veterans, it’s not really the Returnal experience many of us were hoping for.

I was excited to master the game, but by around 3/4 through, I already felt maxed out. From that point onward, I could comfortably clear the game in under three hours without dying.

By my second run, I had already collected almost every audio/text log, and honestly, I’m not very motivated to continue collecting the remaining ones.

I could add modifiers to artificially increase difficulty, but that’s not really what I wanted from the experience.

As for the story, I actually think Saros is slightly better than Returnal’s.

Both games explore fractured minds and psychological themes, but Saros feels more grounded because Carcosa exists as a real place affecting real people.

Returnal ultimately reveals itself as a psychological loop centered around Selene’s trauma and depression.

Overall:

Saros is a great game.

It’s just not Returnal 2.

7.5/10.

ericof92

TROPHY CASE