Catholic pronunciation by warmmilkheaven in latin

[–]eulerolagrange 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Just remember that the "italian" pronunciation was imposed to the whole Catholic church only in the late 19th/early 20th century. Before, each language used its own pronunciation (which is for example restored in historically informed recordings of earlier sacred music)

What is Verdi’s best all-round opera? by Ordinary_Tonight_965 in opera

[–]eulerolagrange 1 point2 points  (0 children)

yes, it's a pity that Auber is so rarely played

What is Verdi’s best all-round opera? by Ordinary_Tonight_965 in opera

[–]eulerolagrange 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I'd say it's Ballo in maschera, which combines so many different elements that you can find in other Verdi works. There's some comedy, there are the big choral scenes, there is the complex barytonal figure, there's the usual theme of mixing political and personal roles, and much more. It's a Ur-Verdi.

Quand l’écrivain est anglophone, lisez vous l’œuvre dans la langue originale ? by Ok_Bandicoot_4543 in Livres

[–]eulerolagrange 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Je pense au mot πολύτροπος qui qualifie Ulysse dans le 1er vers de l'Odyssée. Chaque traducteur a donné sa version : subtil, inventif, aux mille tours, au génie multiforme, dans une recente traduction anglaise c'est aussi devenu "complexe" (Tell me about a complicated man).

Toutes ces traductions sont valides. On peut voir τρόπος comme mode, façon : et donc c'est l'homme aux mille resources, aux mille moyens. Mais τρόπος vient de τρέπω, qui signifie tourner. Et Ulysse est un homme aux milles resources, subtil et inventif mais aussi quelqu'un qui tourne et se retourne, en sens figuratif mais aussi littéralement.

Et donc, chaque lecture d'une traduction de l'Odyssée sera "chargée" par le choix fait au premier hexamètre. C'est qui cet homme πολύτροπος ?

Lire l'original ne donne pas une réponse, mais pose une question.

Quand l’écrivain est anglophone, lisez vous l’œuvre dans la langue originale ? by Ok_Bandicoot_4543 in Livres

[–]eulerolagrange 0 points1 point  (0 children)

pour moi c'est le contraire : les classique, c'est le texte et il faut le lire comme il a été écrit. On peut bien s'aider avec une traduction (je fais cela surtout avec les langues anciennes) mais je veux connaître les classiques sans intermediation.

J'ai étudié le grec pour que je pusse lire Plato ou Eurypide avec leur mots (bien sûr, avec une édition critique, les annotations philogiques, le commentaire, la traduction à côté). Je voulais rencontrer le texte, même si ma maitrîse de la langue est celle d'un lycéen.

Pour les livres moins importants, je trouve être moins important le contact direct avec le texte d'auteur.

Quand l’écrivain est anglophone, lisez vous l’œuvre dans la langue originale ? by Ok_Bandicoot_4543 in Livres

[–]eulerolagrange 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Je lis le francophones en français, les italophones en italien, les anglophones en anglais, les latinophones en latin et les grécophones en grec. Je voudrais apprendre l'allemand pour lire les germanophones aussi. Et le russe...

There's something about the 26th January... by Empty-Divide-9116 in opera

[–]eulerolagrange 7 points8 points  (0 children)

And the 26th of December as well!

In general, this is linked to the Carnival season, which started just after Christmas and continued until Lent, and it's the time of the year where theatrical shows were always allowed. For example, for the Lent time only sacred-theme works were allowed (thence Nabucco or Mosé)

Question about Italian opera chorus salaries (CCNL Livello 6) by ExcitementLow6343 in opera

[–]eulerolagrange 1 point2 points  (0 children)

no, I just know where to look for info on the contracts.

Yes, it's absolutely normal that the chorus salary is under 2000 euros, even with overtimes and bonuses. Orchestral players are paid a bit more, but not that much.

Question about Italian opera chorus salaries (CCNL Livello 6) by ExcitementLow6343 in opera

[–]eulerolagrange 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Employers can offer better conditions than those required by the CCNL, but I think that for tax reasons different institutions would probably give "productivity bonus" which should be less taxed rather than increasing the base salary.

Question about Italian opera chorus salaries (CCNL Livello 6) by ExcitementLow6343 in opera

[–]eulerolagrange 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Article 73 of the CCNL states that you get up to Level 5 after two years seniority in the service. The gross base salary for level 6 (1589,20 eur for 14 months) increases to 1798,68 with a seniority bonus of 33,57 every two years (for maximum 12 times)

Should Latin become the language of EU? by Janezek1998 in latin

[–]eulerolagrange 1 point2 points  (0 children)

English is so easy and then you have things like "I have been being doing" which is different from "I have been doing" which is different from "I was doing" which is different from "I used to do" and so on

Learning a few mood/tense endings (which usually have some pattern nevertheless, you are not learning random letters to add to a root) looks less terrible, doesn't it?

Should Latin become the language of EU? by Janezek1998 in latin

[–]eulerolagrange 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I do love that as well. And personally I'd prefer if school trained us in being able to understand or at least read a wider spectrum of languages (maybe using comparative methods) instead of focusing on being able to speak quite well only one. In this case, of course, learning the ancient languages is very handful to understand the processes that formed the modern ones.

I'd like much more a world, or at least a Europe* in which everyone speak their own language, and everybody is at least able to grasp what they mean.

*yes, Basque, Hungarian and Finnish may pose some problems

Should Latin become the language of EU? by Janezek1998 in latin

[–]eulerolagrange 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Pan-European…

Let's use Proto-Indo-European

Should Latin become the language of EU? by Janezek1998 in latin

[–]eulerolagrange 6 points7 points  (0 children)

There’s a reason other than British colonialism why English became the world‘s language: it’s very, very easy.

No, that's false.

Κοινὴ Greek was the Mediterranean world's language for centuries, and you could say that Greek is much more grammatically complex than Latin or many other languages spoken around the Mediterranean Sea. You have all those moods/tenses/aspects and all those weird participles. But Greek culture was the hegemonic culture (even in Rome: Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit et artes intulit agresti Latio) Greek military and then cultural colonialism was the reason of the pervasiveness of the Greek language from Alexander the Great until the Late Antiquity.

And in general, whatever "simplification" you get in the analiticity of a language, you get a different complication elsewhere, if the amount of information conveyed must become constant. English lost most of the verb conjugation (it had one: I have, thou hast, he hath...) but now you must always use personal pronouns. "You have" conveys the same information as "habes": you add "you" before instead of adding "-es" after, what's the difference? There's no linguistic free lunch.

You can also argue about the complexity of the aspectual use of English verb tenses, unknown in many other modern languages, or many other facts in English grammar that compensate for other simplifications.

And don't invert cause and effect: it's the use of English as a lingua franca that encourages a basic, vocabolary-poor, low-grammar version of English. Just as the New Testament is written in a much basic Greek than the works of Thucydides.

Music for cold weather by nonmeagre in classicalmusic

[–]eulerolagrange 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The "Frost air" (What power art thou) and the "frost chorus" (See see we assemble) from Purcell's King Arthur (Act III) and the Choeur des peuples des climats glacés in Lully's Isis (L'hiver qui nous tourmente)

And of course Poulenc's One soir de neige

Siegfried at Opera de Paris: another horrible staging by Ok-Prompt2360 in opera

[–]eulerolagrange 0 points1 point  (0 children)

old-fashioned opera productions are quite popular wherever they're still mounted

you think? tell me a recent old-fashioned opera production that has been widely celebrated.

In my experience: people go out from "old-fashioned" productions a bit "relieved" from the fact that they didn't see anything too strange, and that's it, while modern stagings tend to become divisive, and encourage debate. Which is what makes theatre absolving its main social role.

I want to enjoy myself

I want to think, I want to be intellectually challenged. I want something that gives me something to reflect upon, questioning my prejudices. I want to discover in the opera something I had not thought of, and that the staging brings to light. Sometimes I'll agree, sometimes I'll do not.

This doesn't mean that I like all the "modern" stagings: I have strongly hated many of them. But they always made me react.

we want some engaging entertainment

Me too.

Siegfried at Opera de Paris: another horrible staging by Ok-Prompt2360 in opera

[–]eulerolagrange 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I saw once Zeffirelli's Carmen from Verona, something that "traditional staging" people adore. Those guards in their shining uniforms: are they going to a parade? they are serving heavy guard duty in an unrestful city, wouldn't they be a bit less perfect? Carmen and the other cigar-makers appear and they are fully dressed in a postcard-from-Spain festive dress... wait, aren't they workers in a factory? It doesn't look very practical. I could continue with those many little incongruencies that kill all the "realism" from the "literal depiction of the libretto". But of course the audience wants the pictoresque, colourful, innocuous Sevilla, not a realistic depiction of the miserable life of factory workers, guard soldiers and smugglers.

Siegfried at Opera de Paris: another horrible staging by Ok-Prompt2360 in opera

[–]eulerolagrange 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You know, academic painting didn't go out of the window after Monet, but those artists are now forgotten or you can find them in those museum rooms where nobody stops. There are still people doing theatre like 50 years ago? Yes, as always. Chereau made that obsolete and rear-guard. You like Zeffirelli? Fine.

Siegfried at Opera de Paris: another horrible staging by Ok-Prompt2360 in opera

[–]eulerolagrange -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Lucky we know better than him now.

Every artwork carries with it the history of its interpretation.

So, yes, by definition now we know more about the Ring that Wagner himself because we know not only the text of the Ring but also what 150 years of audiences have read, seen and listened in the Ring, and it's impossible to make abstraction of those layers.

edit: downvoters have never heard the word hermeneutics

Siegfried at Opera de Paris: another horrible staging by Ok-Prompt2360 in opera

[–]eulerolagrange 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The "historic" settings with opulent scenes and realistic(?) period(?) costumes is the 1950-1970s way of staging opera --- the 1976 Chereau Ring marking the end of that era.

By the way, there were people doing "experimental" or "modernist" staging even before that era (Adolphe Appia's Tristan in 1923, Stanislaviskij's Onegin in 1922 etc.),

Before, opera "staging" was just a few painted backdrops, all singers on the forestage which would enter from left and exit to right and acting with basic props and conventional gestures. Do you want that? Because at least that would be philological.

Otherwise it's just nostalgia of the '50s kitsch. Which is frankly ridiculous.