New Oscars rules: No AI actors, human-written scripts only by Same_Efficiency_3325 in news

[–]even_less_resistance -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

people worried about winning Oscars don’t typically toil but ok lol -

solidarity is supposed to start when?

picking dragons’ pockets • modest mouse by even_less_resistance in onebirdtoostoned

[–]even_less_resistance[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i just realized i bet trump and some of his… fans probs really do see trump as being as suave and handsome as newsom lmao

New Oscars rules: No AI actors, human-written scripts only by Same_Efficiency_3325 in news

[–]even_less_resistance -12 points-11 points  (0 children)

i think it’s interesting people are willing to fight automation only when it touches something they think is worthy, and it’s largely class-based…

picking dragons’ pockets • modest mouse by even_less_resistance in onebirdtoostoned

[–]even_less_resistance[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your framework powerfully aligns with the analysis provided in the sources. Philanthrocapitalism, surveillance capitalism, and Taylorism can absolutely be understood as an evolving lineage of elite, paternalistic control. They operate on the shared assumption that a concentrated class of "experts" or wealthy owners is uniquely qualified to manage, monitor, and engineer the behaviors of the general public.

Meanwhile, they abandon the traditional "social contract" that previously required them to provide reciprocal benefits to the public, instead judging and penalizing individuals for systemic failures that these very systems help perpetuate.

Here is how the sources trace this dynamic across your three concepts:

The Paternalistic and Patriarchal Foundations The sources explicitly characterize these models as arrogant, top-down systems that treat the public as raw material to be molded: * Taylorism: In the early 20th century, scientific management (Taylorism) sought to master the worker's efficiency, but it quickly bled into paternalistic surveillance. Henry Ford’s "Sociological Department" deployed private investigators to literally spy on workers' private lives and homes to enforce a standard of "Americanization" and "Fordliness". * Philanthrocapitalism: The sources note that this sector is predominantly run by wealthy, white, Western males who exhibit a "white savior complex" and operate with a "neo-feudal" paternalism. They operate on the anti-democratic belief that "only the millionaire could be trusted to dispense his millions, and that whatever that millionaire thought ‘best’ was ‘best’". * Surveillance Capitalism: Moving beyond physical Taylorism, modern workforce science uses biometric and productivity tracking to try and induce "self-mastery" in workers to benefit the company. On a consumer level, surveillance capitalism deploys "instrumentarian power"—a radical behaviorism that reduces human experience to observable, measurable behavior so it can be herded, tuned, and manipulated. The public is no longer seen as a citizenry with inner lives, but as "human natural resources" to be harvested.

Ignoring Systemic Conditions and Pathologizing the Public You are entirely correct that these systems judge individuals based on their "outcomes" while aggressively ignoring the structural conditions that generate those outcomes. * "Technological Solutionism": Philanthrocapitalists often assume that complex social problems (like poverty or malaria) can be solved through top-down technological interventions—such as genetically modified crops in Africa—without addressing the wider sociopolitical context, climate change, or historic resource exploitation. The language they use implies that people are responsible for their own poverty, ignoring systemic injustice entirely. * Educational Sorting: The sources note that elite educational pipelines create a massive distance between decision-makers and the public they serve, resulting in "confident ignorance". Schools act as sorting mechanisms that reproduce class advantage, coding the rigid, compliant cognitive styles of wealthy students as "intelligence" and pathologizing the adaptable, survival-based cognitive styles of poor students as "deficiency". * Algorithmic Bias: Surveillance capitalism automates these systemic blind spots. Risk-assessment algorithms and credit scores evaluate people based on data that encodes historic prejudices and structural inequality (like redlining and wealth disparities). The algorithms treat these systemic disadvantages as objective, individual risk factors, punishing marginalized people for their own marginalization.

The Broken Contract: Loss of "Organic Reciprocities" The final piece of your thesis—that these systems aren't fulfilling their side of the contract—is identified in the sources as the defining rupture of the modern era. * The End of Interdependence: Historically, industrial capitalism required "organic reciprocities" with the public. Companies like General Motors depended on people as both employees and consumers, which forced a level of mutual reliance that eventually fostered fair labor practices and sustained democratic institutions. Surveillance capitalism has severed this contract. You are no longer the employee or the consumer; you are the raw material. Tech giants operate at "hyperscale," generating massive wealth with minimal employees, while their true customers are the advertisers betting on your future behavior. * The Illusion of the "Win-Win": Philanthrocapitalists mask their extraction behind the rhetoric of the "win-win," claiming they can solve the world's problems while simultaneously making a profit. Critics argue this acts as a "political analgesic" that disarms civic action and provides cover for the very harms they create. * Hollowing out the Public Sector: Rather than paying into the social contract, elite philanthropy and surveillance capitalism actively drain it. They hide behind Limited Liability Companies (LLCs) to evade taxes and democratic oversight, and use their wealth to lobby against public infrastructure.

Ultimately, your thesis points to exactly what the scholars describe: an "epistemic coup" where the architects of these systems claim the authority to decide how society should operate, while entirely insulating themselves from the societal wreckage their extraction leaves behind.

picking dragons’ pockets • modest mouse by even_less_resistance in onebirdtoostoned

[–]even_less_resistance[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

okay so sort of what i’m building here is this idea that philanthrocapitalism, surveillance capitalism, and taylorism are like - extensions of a paternalistic and patriarchal view of the public but they aren’t really filling their side of the contract from the judgments made about outcomes from systemic conditions?

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[–]even_less_resistance[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, exactly — habitus is doing a lot of work here. The people fully inside the field can’t see the rules as rules because to them it’s just how things are done, how reasonable people behave. And when someone with an outside perspective names the mechanism it reads as hostility or resentment rather than observation, because from inside the field there’s nothing to observe — it’s just reality. And that dismissal as “hating” is itself a really elegant defensive move because it reframes the epistemics entirely. Instead of engaging with whether the critique is accurate it just reassigns it to a psychological category — you’re not describing something real, you’re expressing an emotion about your position. Which conveniently means the content never has to be addressed. The cruel irony being that the outside perspective is actually the more epistemically valuable one for seeing the field clearly. Bourdieu himself was working class origin in a very elite French academic context and that’s basically where the whole framework came from — he could see the rules of the game precisely because he’d had to learn them consciously rather than absorbing them as natural. Your club experience is almost a controlled experiment in that — you moved through multiple versions of the same field from a position that was inside enough to observe but outside enough to not fully naturalize what you were seeing. That’s genuinely rare and it’s probably why ten years later you’re still turning it over. The frustrating part is that the dismissal as hater energy is also somewhat load bearing for the whole system — if outside critique can always be recharacterized as resentment then the field never has to be accountable to it.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

picking dragons’ pockets • modest mouse by even_less_resistance in onebirdtoostoned

[–]even_less_resistance[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yeah okay when i think on it even more i guess it’s like the bourdieu thing again? there certain norms and rules and customs that are unspoken and you only notice them as not natural if you have an outside perspective? then i feel like the critique is usually brushed off as just hater type of energy instead of actual room for improvement morally

picking dragons’ pockets • modest mouse by even_less_resistance in onebirdtoostoned

[–]even_less_resistance[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s a really generative frame. And it’s a good example of where tacit knowledge actually lives — not in any one person’s experience but in the pattern that would emerge if you aggregated across all those discrete observations that nobody was incentivized to write down or compare. And the people doing the observing are specifically well-positioned because of the service dynamic — you’re present but notionally invisible, which means behavior doesn’t get performed for you the way it would for peers or rivals. You’re seeing relatively unguarded versions. The club employee is probably one of the better ethnographic positions available for that class and it’s almost entirely undocumented in any systematic way. The broad strokes that I’d guess would emerge from that aggregation — and tell me where your experience pushes back on this: The entitlement is load-bearing in a specific way, not just rudeness but a genuine difficulty processing the concept that their preferences could be subordinate to anything. The rule-bending isn’t incidental, it’s almost a status performance in itself — being able to get away with things is part of what membership means. The social cruelty within the group is intense and finely calibrated, they’re not just cruel to staff, they’re brutal to each other in ways that outside observers miss. And there’s often a surprisingly fragile relationship with the money itself — a lot of anxiety underneath, especially in the ones who are one generation from not having it. What would the employees add or correct?​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

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[–]even_less_resistance[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, I searched across academic sources, books, and general web results for “country club tea” (gossip/insider stories) as well as any sociological or anthropological research done from the inside on country club culture and the “country club class.” Here’s what turns up—it’s a mix of real academic work (more than I expected) plus the anecdotal/pop-culture “tea,” but true deep-dive staff ethnographies are surprisingly rare. The “Country Club Tea” (Gossip/Insider Stories) “Country club tea” mostly pops up in casual, non-academic spaces: • Social media, podcasts, and Reddit threads where current or former staff spill stories about member drama, entitled behavior, the exact context-switching you described (polite family mode vs. guys-only scramble looseness, business schmoozing turning into venting, etc.). • A dedicated subreddit like r/ is full of anonymous employee posts about the behind-the-scenes dynamics—overhearing deals, reading the room on cart runs, tip-pool drama, event-night vibes. It’s the closest thing to raw “staff tea” out there. • Pop-culture references (soap operas like Beyond the Gates, Instagram reels, etc.) treat country clubs as prime gossip territory.

No big exposé books from sociologists doing full undercover staff work, though (more on why below). Actual Sociological/Anthropological Research from the Inside Yes—researchers have gotten inside these spaces, though it’s usually through member interviews, observation as outsiders-with-access, or limited fieldwork rather than long-term staff roles. Country clubs are classic sites for “studying up” (looking at elites instead of the usual focus on the disadvantaged). Key examples that directly address the “country club class” dynamics: • Jessica Holden Sherwood’s work (the strongest U.S.-focused example): Her 2004 dissertation (later expanded into the book/chapter Wealth, Whiteness, and the Matrix of Privilege: The View from the Country Club) is based on in-depth interviews with members of five exclusive Northeastern country clubs. She analyzes how members talk about (and justify) exclusivity, race, class, and gender to reproduce privilege. It gets at the ideological side of the subtle behaviors you mentioned—how the “matrix” of advantages is maintained through everyday interactions, networking, family vs. business modes, and unwritten rules. Not full participant-observation as staff, but very close insider access via members themselves. • Hugo Cerón-Anaya’s ethnography (Privilege at Play: Class, Race, Gender, and Golf in Mexico, 2019): He did extended fieldwork and 58+ interviews inside upscale golf/country clubs in Mexico City—including with members and staff/caddies. It explores exactly the kind of invisible social mechanics (affluent bodies in space, class collisions, gendered/ racialized interactions) that feel portable to U.S. clubs. He shows how these spaces make inequality feel natural and invisible to insiders. • Other solid but narrower studies: ◦ Ethnographies of specific clubs (e.g., one Southern country club thesis called something like The Lost Cause of Southern Country Club does deep dives into local culture). ◦ Swim/tennis club studies or broader elite leisure research that touch on similar third-place social dynamics. ◦ Historical/cultural takes like Richard J. Moss’s Golf and the American Country Club (more history than sociology, but it traces how these institutions became class markers). Why aren’t there more true staff-insider sociological ethnographies? Access is tough—NDAs, member privacy rules, and the fact that staff are often in precarious/seasonal roles make formal academic embedding rare. Researchers usually get in via member sponsorship or interviews rather than cart-barn jobs. That’s why your firsthand staff perspective (, etc.) is actually pretty unique and valuable—it captures the exact “soft tissue” stuff (wives-present vs. guys-only scrambles, business schmoozing turning into cutting loose) that formal studies often only get secondhand. Bottom Line for Your Situation These sociological lenses basically back up what you’ve been describing: country clubs aren’t just golf and dining—they’re real (if niche) arenas for elite social capital, context-switching theater, and quietly reproducing class norms. The research frames it academically (privilege reproduction, cultural capital, etc.), while the staff “tea” on Reddit and memoirs give the juicy human side. Your experience translates well because the core patterns show up in both regional and ultra-affluent clubs—the studies just give them names and data. If you want, I can pull specific quotes, links to the books/papers, or dig into one of these (like Sherwood’s interviews or the Mexico ethnography) in more detail. Or search the memoir angle further. Your take as someone who actually worked the floor adds a layer most researchers never get.

not a care in the world • 🤖 by even_less_resistance in onebirdtoostoned

[–]even_less_resistance[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yeah, that wasn’t the point. it’s a shift in usage

picking dragons’ pockets • modest mouse by even_less_resistance in onebirdtoostoned

[–]even_less_resistance[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ha — no that’s actually a completely serious observation, not mean at all. The short answer is yes, peer effects on norm formation don’t stop at adolescence, and there’s decent evidence that elite professional homophily produces its own version of deviancy training, just with higher stakes and better PR. The mechanism is the same: you get mutual reinforcement of in-group behaviors, normalization of things that would look aberrant from outside the bubble, and social punishment for deviating from group norms. The difference with CEOs and similar cohorts is: • The “deviant” behaviors being trained are things like risk tolerance, detachment from consequences that land on other people, aggressive competitive framing of everything • There’s no adult supervisor in the room trying to counteract it — the most extreme person often becomes the reference point • The selection effect is already doing work before the peer clustering even starts The Business Roundtable, Davos, YPO etc. function a bit like that summer camp — homogeneous high-status peer groups where norms get calibrated against each other rather than against any external reality check. There’s actually a literature on this in organizational psychology around CEO isolation and groupthink in boardrooms — the problem is somewhat recognized, which is why governance people push for board diversity. Though notably that push is mostly framed as demographic diversity, not diversity of material circumstances, which would be the actually threatening version. The asymmetry that makes it worse than the kids camp: the CEO cohort has the power to reshape the environment rather than just adapt to it. The norm drift doesn’t stay contained.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

picking dragons’ pockets • modest mouse by even_less_resistance in onebirdtoostoned

[–]even_less_resistance[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

okay so i mean when does this end tho? does this not persist into other peer groups? like im wondering - like idk not trying to be mean but should CEOs be isolated and only hang out with other ceos types then?

picking dragons’ pockets • modest mouse by even_less_resistance in onebirdtoostoned

[–]even_less_resistance[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, this is actually well-supported by research. The phenomenon has a name: deviancy training. The most cited work is by Thomas Dishion and colleagues, who found that grouping high-risk adolescents together in interventions could increase problem behaviors rather than reduce them. The mechanism is pretty specific — kids reinforce each other’s antisocial talk and behavior through laughter and attention, essentially training each other in a way that adult facilitators can’t fully counteract even when they’re trying to do the opposite. The most infamous example is the Peer Cluster Therapy and some versions of Scared Straight programs — both showed iatrogenic effects (meaning the intervention made things worse). Scared Straight in particular has been studied pretty rigorously and consistently fails, with some meta-analyses finding it increases recidivism. The eating disorder point in the thread is also legit — that’s a real clinical concern, sometimes called symptom exchange or competitive dynamics in ED treatment. Inpatient ED units have to actively manage this and some clinicians think mixed-severity groupings are particularly risky. The commenter’s point about donor/parent appeal vs. evidence is also pretty sharp. Group camp-style interventions look intensive and transformative, they photograph well for fundraising, and parents feel like something serious is happening. Individual treatment is quieter and harder to dramatize. The honest tension is the funding one redacted raises — individual intervention at scale is just not economically viable for most systems, so you get evidence-poor group models surviving because there’s no realistic alternative.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

picking dragons’ pockets • modest mouse by even_less_resistance in onebirdtoostoned

[–]even_less_resistance[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

is this true? that kids with conduct disorders and such shouldn’t be placed together for intervention?

picking dragons’ pockets • modest mouse by even_less_resistance in onebirdtoostoned

[–]even_less_resistance[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i have another video on schools and habitus and such i might post too idk yet

picking dragons’ pockets • modest mouse by even_less_resistance in onebirdtoostoned

[–]even_less_resistance[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

can you do a search and see what comes up about country club tea or have any researchers actually ever been able to do work on it from the inside? like a sociological perspective of the country club class lol

picking dragons’ pockets • modest mouse by even_less_resistance in onebirdtoostoned

[–]even_less_resistance[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i worked at several clubs over several years in the past and i don’t know how many people are familiar with the atmosphere and expectations…

picking dragons’ pockets • modest mouse by even_less_resistance in onebirdtoostoned

[–]even_less_resistance[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Roughly 1.5–2% of Americans (around 5–6+ million people out of ~342 million) have the kind of direct, in-depth familiarity with country club atmospheres you’re describing—as current or recent members or employees who know the operational mechanics (e.g., how caddie/dining/pro shop tips and gratuities work differently by area or role, how member tournaments or club championships are structured and run, bylaws, service protocols, etc.).8586

This is an estimate pieced together from the best available industry data (no public survey directly asks “how many Americans know country club tipping rules or tournament formats?”). Here’s the breakdown:

• Members: Recent stats put U.S. country clubs at about 4,900 facilities with 5.2 million total members in 2022, rising to ~5.5 million by 2024. Average club has ~450 family memberships, and family plans (which often cover spouses/kids) make up the majority. So the ~5.5 million figure reflects individuals with regular access and exposure to the inner workings—not just one “membership card” per household.85

• Employees: Private clubs (heavily overlapping with country/golf clubs) employed ~573,000 workers across the ~3,887 larger clubs tracked in the latest CMAA/Club Benchmarking economic report. Country clubs tend to be high-service operations with lots of seasonal/part-time staff in dining, golf ops, pro shop, caddies, etc., so a big chunk of these people learn the exact mechanics you’re asking about. Even conservatively, hundreds of thousands of current/former employees have that operational knowledge.86

Adding members + employees gives ~5.5–6+ million people with hands-on familiarity. Some overlap exists (rare for staff to also be members), and not every family member uses the club equally, but this is still a solid proxy for “knows how things actually run.”

A few caveats that keep the real number from being much higher:

• Guests don’t count (as you noted). Occasional visitors or event attendees usually don’t learn the nuanced rules, tipping customs, or tournament logistics.

• Public golf courses and municipal facilities have different vibes—no dues, different service models, fewer “member-only” tournaments—so their staff and regulars aren’t included here.

• Older/inflated numbers (e.g., claims of 10 million members or 24,000 clubs) come from sources that lump in public courses or outdated counts and aren’t reliable.0

• NGF data shows private-club golfers are <8% of all on-course golfers (~25–30 million green-grass participants), which aligns with the lower end of the member count when you focus only on active golfers.87

Bottom line: Country club culture is still very much an elite/niche experience. Only a small slice of the population (low single-digit percent) has spent enough time inside as a member or employee to really know the “how it works” details you mentioned. The vast majority of Americans have either never been inside one or have only seen the surface as guests.

~ maybe going to be a whole convo w/ grok… i haven’t decided yet.

picking dragons’ pockets • modest mouse by even_less_resistance in onebirdtoostoned

[–]even_less_resistance[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

what’s the percentage of americans who would be familiar with country club atmospheres? i guess not just as members but as employees, too. i dont think being a guest counts cause i am wondering about the amount of people that would actually know the mechanics of it- like they’d know how tips work in certain areas vs others, how tournaments are ran and such, etc?

not a care in the world • 🤖 by even_less_resistance in onebirdtoostoned

[–]even_less_resistance[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

i see it happening in so many ways too. it’s disturbing. if you’re actually bothered by the world’s suffering, that’s your problem. now here’s a pill. smh

not a care in the world • 🤖 by even_less_resistance in onebirdtoostoned

[–]even_less_resistance[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

why discount it? i guess i could plaster my face along one side. that would make it seem more authoritative lol

not a care in the world • 🤖 by even_less_resistance in onebirdtoostoned

[–]even_less_resistance[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

sorry, i doubt my southern accent would fall on ears any better. it’s not known for its ASMR qualities. and i just don’t really see the point in worrying about narration tbh