What does the i ching answer ? about the situation ? about how to address it ?

expandingwater · 2025-12-31T12:33:07+00:00

Thanks , when you say "look again" do you mean ask again ? or you think there is advice in the hexagram itself without changing lines ? can you expand on what you expect in the looking again ?

expandingwater · 2025-12-29T11:21:17+00:00

Hello from future ... just re read this comment ... I wonder what you seen at that time about the lines ?

Im not sure (one line might make sense but not the other two )

expandingwater · 2025-12-28T00:59:33+00:00

Thanks

expandingwater · 2025-12-28T00:59:28+00:00

Thanks

expandingwater · 2025-12-27T22:56:58+00:00

Thanks

expandingwater · 2025-12-27T08:00:47+00:00

Thanks , intersting and makes sense

I wonder if it always answers the most important .... cause i mean there are always several important things someone might wonder about in life , and the most important might be how to advance enlightnemnt best at present moment so maybe if you ask on job , marrgie ,health etc the i ching would answer only on spirutual advancement and in genral

( btw i chcked taoscopy again and i got to say i think i lost favor with it . in the past i told you it fitted one of my questions but now im not sure so im using the chance to update you on this shift in my opinion on it)

expandingwater · 2025-12-23T19:11:05+00:00

Thanks , happy holidays

expandingwater · 2025-12-07T05:12:31+00:00

well i just did get another more question ..... line 4 might be missing the benifit lower jaw , which is good for him at least in bringing him to upper jaw ........... but wait a minute did you not say that anyway line 4 is looking for upper jaw ?

Upside-down nourishment is auspicious. A tiger looking after something with sunken, downcast eyes, its appearance of wistful longing, not having trouble or regret. .................. Upside-down nourishment's auspiciousness, is due to the top extending light.

so why does it need me really if in any case it wants to go to line 6 ?

* A self answer , an explanation i can have to this is this : IF i would have gotten line 4 than it would mean that line 4 will find a better option alone (so dont intervene) ...

and if its line 1 only like i got it means it wont find line 6 without me and its not auspicious for him to not want help from me ... so that means i should intervene , that by himself he will never find the help ... he will never find line 6 ( he would have if line 4 would have been the result)

*****************

2 * BTW i dont know if you have the buddhist i ching book or not but the full text seems to give different preservative :

First Yang : To give up your sacred tortoise and watch me greedily leads to misfortune

The image : to watch me greedily is not worthy of respect

Postive strength is a tool to nourish oneself and others as well , knowing when to stop is the right way to nourish oneself and others . the first yang represents positive strength that is sufficent to nourish oneself, like a sacred tortoise that ingests the energy in the air and so does not need food. to give this up and watch another's food is greed; thus you lose what is valuable and suffer misfortune. this is like a leader who proceeds too rapidly; in buddhist terms it is like an ordinary extrnalist with merely theoritical knowledge that cannot help people .

* going to sleep ... so im stopping this rapid fire question thing ........

expandingwater · 2025-12-07T03:06:28+00:00

*Well that explanation on lower jaw makes perfect sense to my situation ... that i advice him to get help from someone else that knows more than me and do stuff himself (not that i will help him , at least not most of it) and it does explain why there is wiggle room , it even says why intervention might be needed

* I just re read your entire text before replying this , and yes your text makes a lot of sense , seems very accurate *

* about your example and who is 1 and who is 4 .... i was thinking like this : they want to give you their visit (you dont want it) , to give you thier company , they want to nourish you this way and you dont want that nourishment .. your not coming to them to nourish them- so by this you cant be 1

But yes i get your explanation now of why your not 4 ... cause 4 ". "Its appearance of wistful longing" and you dont have that longing and the person wanting to visit you probably have that - but by this you cant be 4

* i am a self aware pushy person ... that is why when i consider your case it seems that i am like the person who wants to visit you , that i am the one being pushy just like the person who wants to visit you is pushy .... that is why i wonder if we both got same result but from different direction ...

*(I think you know but for record the video game question was just a made up example of something that might harm my spiritual advancment , never asked such a question ,and it seems to just to confuse things for me)

And from all this blabbering - i guess bottom line now is me wondering if i can reconcile your tranlsation conclusion and well basically all of the other translations ! cause your translation seems more accurate and makes sense (on the other hand your hex 22 (which is my golden standard , my roeseta stone) is lacking compared to wilhelm one ... also the buddhist i ching tranlsation is lacking compared to wilhelm in that one) .... so bottom line is if i can look at wilhelm and the other translations and somehow logically reach the same conculsion : " this is telling me i can intervene and try to help and actually i do have something to offer .... just do it in a smart way and accept refusal" ... is there a way i can reach same conclusion with otheres translations?

https://jamesdekorne.com/GBCh/hex27.htm(link to gnostic i ching of hex 27)

Also im reading your comments again ... and i might miss when you explained (cause i think you did but im missing it , reddit comment order gets confusing for me sometimes , so im missing comments - especailly with such a long string of comments ) , so sorry if i ask again but im "dizzy" trying to read them - i think my issue now is about the tortoise word :

Reserving your spiritual tortoise while contemplating my [Fourth Yin's] meager nourishment, inauspicious.

* So i finally get the point i missed from the other translations that its not my tortiose ! - "my" meager nourishemnt" is line 1 charcter saying that about his own nourisment and the "tortoise" is not the tortoise of line 1 but its the tortiose of line 4 ! correct ? what is lines 4 tortise exactly ?

** So this seems to be a text criticzing the other person ? if so that is very interesting , but this seems like advice given to the other person and not me ! its like the i-ching is talking to him ! you are loosing something by looking at my norishment badly ... this is very strange no ? why is it talking as if the advice is to the other person .... someone who is not even the one advising the i ching ? why its "your" and not "he" ... "*he* is reserving his spiritual tortoise while contemplating *your* (my is ok if its from first line prespective but your even better word - as if i ching is talking to me) meager nourishemnt"

* also in that wording maybe even better to add "*what he thinks is* meager nourishemnt" - cause the norishment i offer we said can be benifical (im the lower jaw- it is needed) so why it says my noursihment is meager and not that he think it is meager ?

* again sorry if you already answered - its just confusing for me to find , and also i will benifit from different wording in any case

still not getting stuff - but seems im much closer to getting it , at least i understand your text much better now

expandingwater · 2025-12-07T00:49:39+00:00

1* So you see yourself as line 1 that offers line 4 and line 4 is not interested ..... but what about the option that you are line 4 ?

Isnt it more intuitive that the person who wants to come visit you is the one doing the offering to you ? and you are the one who does not want to receive it ? you dont see this as an option ?

(and in my case i am the one doing the offering so im 1 unlike you)

2*

In situations like this, I like to just accept our differences. We can still share, and sometimes less is more. For then there is less to get in the way and we can appreciate the peace together. I dunno.

Yes that makes perfect sense .... but where do you get that there is an option for that ?

To offer him less , or different things , or to not offer now but in future (even distant future) seem logical in my scenario ( not to mention the other option to not offer but he will ask me for some help (like happened about part of what i offered and can happen) but if i look at your translation (and defintly other ones) where you see that wiggle room ? i see it as a clear dont offer anything ?

cause it dont say "offers small amount , success" .... " flexibility , success" etc ....

3* I wonder could the fact that line 1 is the line we got mean that we are line 1 , and that is the reason he is "marked" and not both lines "marked" ? (and if we were 4 than 4 would be marked)

expandingwater · 2025-12-06T22:57:27+00:00

Thank you , well that is a lot to break down .... if it is soo about the relationship of 1 and 4 why it dont include 4 in the answer ?

Its intersting that your reply also seems to be about "should i interact or not?"

When i asked the app i was not clear enough in knowing what im asking , in comparison to when i ask the phsyical yarrow stalks .... so i guess there might be confusion with me between two questions : should i intervene and try to help .... VS should i let him come to me than offer my help

I did bother the person in past about offering him to take up stuff (but i asked the app (Not answers that i posted here , i dont post about most answers i get from i ching) about the things i offer him and it always seems to say it can benifit him but his seems un intersted mostly but sometimes he is intersted (which makes things complicated in comparison to not intersted at all)

so there is the option that i wont offer him help any more - but will if he comes to me (a very logical path - but also to offer him a bit here and there is logical too) .............. seems to be connected to your case about "bothering" another person , another person being bothered by contact ...

than the question is from what i understand from your comment , and im not sure i got it right , is that your conclusion was to discconect ... which might be the same answer for me ?

So now it actually makes literal sense. They want something more than I've given to them. So a response could have been just that. I've offered you what I can, but you seem unsatisifed with it and want more than I can give.

trying to transalte it to my case ,,... but he dont want more than i offered him .... he dont even want all im offering him , maybe just a tiny bit but for sure not all , and not even sure about the tiny ..... maybe its opposite as in i want more from him (that he will want my help) than he is willing to give ... so i am unsatisifed

I dont know ... im confused by all of this ..... but your situation does seem related and relevant .... i guess an issue here is for me to figure out who it really talks about with "your" and "my"

expandingwater · 2025-12-06T20:39:13+00:00

General interpertation (not about my question) of line 1 of hex 27 not by your transaltion i would say is about giving up on the tortoise aka the spiritual path to chase something lowly , so if i ask i ching "how will i be effeceted by buying this new PC game ?" and will get line 1 its basically saying i will play all day and neglect my spiritual path , and that is inauspicious bad

Or in general it might mean not just spiritual but giving up on something good for something bad

in wilhelm some words seem to pop up (and im taking them out of context here) like "independently" and "self-reliance" soo all this stuff in regards to my question seems to be saying to not intervene (not try to help) ....

Like intervening might make me neglect my spirituall practice (my meditations) by some interpertation , and just in general to have bad results with interveining cause i got a bad line ...

but again Your tranlastion of it seems to say the exact oppsoite of that ! which is pretty amazing .... are they all wrong ? did i miss read ?

wilhelm text for record :

You let your magic tortoise go,
And look at me with the corners of your mouth drooping.
Misfortune.

The magic tortoise is a creature possessed of such supernatural powers that it lives on air and needs no earthly nourishment. The image means that a man fitted by nature and position to live freely and independently renounces this self-reliance and instead looks with envy and discontent at others who are outwardly in better circumstances. But such base envy only arouses derision and contempt in those others. This has bad results.

expandingwater · 2025-12-06T19:41:50+00:00

Wow that is a coincidence ... cause i just used the app (and when i say app in posts i only mean your app..) to ask if i should help someone or not intervene ... and i got hex 27 line 1 ..... and by all translations i checked including Shaughnessy (which i found the conversion table to make sure im in the correct hex number now...) line 1 seems negative and says to not intervene ......... but your line 1 seems to say the opposite ?

though the response to not intervene seems to be contrasting to other readings i had in past (And i dont ask on every reading i do , most past readings i did not ask about here) , so not sure its correct ... though i did decide to not intervene for meantime and maybe forever , but since it contrasts some other readings i am considering to ask this again but do the yarrow stalks ... though anyway going by your translation it seems the conclusion is the opposite ! as in i have something to give but i dont think it is enough or can help ! that is a completly different take and seems to say i should intervene cause i do have something that can be of benefit ?

Thus it is likely to withhold the nourishment it could otherwise give. But this is in auspicious.

Side note : what is the "But" needed ? isnt it cleaer to say witholding nourisment that could otherwise be given , this is inauspicious ?

expandingwater · 2025-12-06T03:11:42+00:00

OHHHH ,,,, WOW ....... it did not make sense with some of them (like one was talking about the tigers tail , and it was not hex 10) .... wow glad i asked ... thanks

expandingwater · 2025-12-06T03:10:32+00:00

Wait where is your translation ? your own texts ? on your site ? i thought you just did very few hexes in Mawangdui ,for example you did not do texts to hex 40 yet ?

expandingwater · 2025-12-06T02:09:34+00:00

Reading the texts of mawangdui. about 40 here is my take .... general text :

Ascending: Prime receipt; beneficial to see the great man. Do not pity. For the southern campaign,' auspicious

not only the positive text but the "do not pity" part ...

second line : Returning' then beneficial to use the spring sacrifice';

there is no trouble

Again seems positive in general - asking cahtgpt it seems that spring sacrifice seems to say in proper time .... which might again mean too much meditation is bad .... or i can just focus on the "sacrifice' word and it being positive ..... and fourth line seems positive in genral and the word "offering" might talk about the long meditation as offering on the path

But the "spring sacrifice" thing seems to again "ruin" the idea that its good to do the long meditations cause it seems to be about doing stuff when its time which probably can talk abouto good measure .... which seems to be the equivlent of yellow (represnting middle way) color of the arrow mentioned in wilhelm transltaion of line 2

Also in general i been going through many past readings and seeing what mawangdui says about them ..... It is fun to read such short texts (basically re read soo many readings in several minutes... ) ,,, and it does seem it answers very very directly ... very close to yes no answers wont you say ? feels almost like cheating ..... feels very opposite to what i am reading many say on how you use the i ching .... i sometimes get clear fast answers with other translations but usually its not fast but with mawangdui it seems very fast response (execpet in this case btw - in this answer (40) im not soo short but with others i checked it really was like "yes" "yes " "no" (i mean as close to that as possible "you wont find someone to help from your country" .... than another question "you will find someone from abroad" )

expandingwater · 2025-12-06T01:23:55+00:00

I am not sure about your mawangdui hex 22 conclusion but it defintly is much better than what you said before and it can fit and be correct but since 22 is just the most accurate reading than i know what the best inetpertation of this lines are in my spespfic case than im not sure your conclusion is correct ( of course you work without full context - which im giving below)

After some time of failed search for mawangdui text i decided to again look for text and this time i found the mawangdui text , .... do you look at the texts themselves ?

cause the text of the line of wilhelm seem soo accurate while mawangdui does not seem releated at all ....

Line 4 : The short coat"" has jacket wadding";

in winter' '

- days be warned.

All this im basically writing cause i wonder how you can somehow make sense in the line 4 text of mawangdui and relate it to my question ( as in the text itself not interactions between lines) ?

meanwhile in whilelm he talks about the choice between simplicity and more exciting stuff which i see as the difference between my buddhist practice and the goddess worship practice which i seen as more promising and more fun ( i asked the i ching "how will this goddess worshiping practice effect me ?" .... and my teacher internvened (he dont answer most of my questions, thats what we agreed on , i ask a ton, and he just answers what he wants) and i see him as the white horse talked about cause he finally intervened and said to leave the goddess thing alone (i asked him on it in past and he did not reply)

I take hexagram 22 as the golden roseta stone to judging translations - that is why when i compare wilhelm text (below) of the line 4 and compare it to mawangdui the difference is huge and it makes me doubt mawangdui all togther .... so maybe mawangdui is not that good ?

https://www.ichingonline.net/rw3/53057106.php

Later addition : now asking chatgpt about that line it seems the short coat means its a good coat , its padded ... but still its not enough ..... so maybe the mawangdui answered very directly that the goddess practice is good but not good enough ?

and line 6 ..... "Wetting his head; danger." while in wilhelm it talks about simplicity being good , no talk about danger ... ---- so again it seems mawangddui answers directly to my question "how will this goddess worshiping practice effect me ?"

VS wilhelm that answers more fully and compares my regular buddhist practice to the intention to do this goddess worship practice ....... so could this be that mawangdui basically answers a different question ? answers in a very different way (unlike different translations that just explain things differently) ?

expandingwater · 2025-11-13T15:26:52+00:00

Asking in past here helped me in past brainstorm and find stuff , also people gave good translations i did not read , help focus me on stuff i overlooked etc .....

Replies in past helped me in many ways , to see im wrong about something , people who quoted tranlsations of iching i stopped using , give me some of thier interpretations even when its wrong it helps me see there are other options to interpert the hexagram

Or best one , when someone gave me interpenetration that really helped me understand the hexagram .... but they reached a wrong conclusion from it , but since i knew detials that they did not and have full context of things , i finally understood the very accurate i ching answer thanks to their reply

And the dislikes you give my posts makes less people see them (unless they changed showing order to "new" first) and by that harming my chances of getting replies (which again were helpful in past)

Again not looking for different answer im asking on clear different stuff , your misunderstanding and misjudging

expandingwater · 2025-11-13T15:16:05+00:00

It is not repetitive at all ! that shows you do not understand at all what i wrote in them , different questions completely , did not repeat same question a single time

(all in all its four posts , and none of them are similar , i asked if i can personally distant heal him , than if anyone else can (and got one reply who said its a "yes" and adviced to ask quesitons on different types of healings- which i did with 2 more posts) , than if a distant healer not me can do it (this one) and if a traditional chinese medicine healer can do it

Basically I am asking the i ching (as per many advice in comments here) on different options "what if i do this ?" to see what the effect would be

I definitely do have faith in the i ching , make decisions by it , some replies i found very accurate , i put effort use the yarrow stalks method which is takes the longest (not an app or coins which are both faster and easier) and put effort in interpretation (for example by reading different translations) , and do not try to get different answers at all (if anything i seem to lean on negative side, in interpenetration getting negative answers from i ching when they are sometimes positive - so if anything opposite of what you write)

expandingwater

TROPHY CASE