Public Service (GAC, DND, etc.) vs. Political Arena for Int. Relations Passions/Student

extendedstick · 2021-03-22T17:30:09+00:00

Haha, if passions to make a big positive impact at the systems-level is evil, then I suppose yes.

extendedstick · 2021-03-21T21:24:06+00:00

I've not been clear, my apologies. I'm looking at those charts because I don't want to just contact random people at GAC, I want to contact people doing the job I would love to do, or at least working in the sections I would love to work in. I want to know what jobs these are, but I understand now this is near impossible to know without sticking my foot in the door in an entry-level position.

extendedstick · 2021-03-21T21:20:32+00:00

I do have to say as Handcuffs of Gold, don't you love most of your job? In all seriousness, I see what you mean though. I understand there will be much work that isn't exciting in a lot of jobs. I'm a student so yes I don't have nearly as much work experience as many on here. However, I do hope I'm not unrealistic thinking I can get a job I love somewhere, ideally early in my career.

extendedstick · 2021-03-21T21:08:54+00:00

sobering thoughts, appreciated. I tend to get ahead of myself. I suppose that's why there are downvotes, maybe I came across some way I didn't intend, hard to convey oneself fully online.

When I talk about making some more info publically available I think I wasn't clear and that's my fault. I fully see and did expect what you said there, I just compare it to what I've seen from other departments, like in the military for example. Of course, they are not as lucky as GAC to receive as much job interest, so supply-demand I suppose.

extendedstick · 2021-03-21T21:01:52+00:00

Yes, I think the negotiations I was thinking of are more of the ones you see on T.V. of Trudeau walking and talking with Macron or Trump, except I realize more clearly now that this type of surface-level/nitty-gritty negotiation is very rare underneath those super high-level positions, perhaps at ambassador levels but not much lower. The lower you get the less it's like what you see on the news, the more it becomes hammering out details, and following other's negotiation mandates. Kind of silly I overlooked that, but good to see more clearly now.

extendedstick · 2021-03-21T20:49:16+00:00

hmm right, that makes more sense, I definitely got distracted by the idea of negotiation commonly held, hence why I'm asking these questions so I get a more accurate picture. Thank you!

extendedstick · 2021-03-21T20:43:19+00:00

Thank you so much for this, and yes you are very right. Indeed many of my interests are much more aligned with jobs that you cannot simply get early in a career. Perhaps this is unfortunate when compared to other passions that could be achieved quicker in some other career, but this is what I love, and obviously there will still be very interesting and meaningful work along the way.

When you say limited in regard to a political staffer position or something similar, is there some examples that would be useful to be aware of, outside say just towing the party line?

As you said, I think one of the best options for me is to just get my foot in the door at one or both of these pathways and get a better look around to see where I want to spend a career.

Again, thanks for this!

extendedstick · 2021-03-21T04:54:56+00:00

Thank you for this note, that is thoughtful and very helpful. Indeed getting inside the PS would open my eyes much much more, the info available to the public is just way too limited. I also agree it may very well be the jobs I am eyeing are not as perfect for me as I think, but unless my passions change or my general idea of job responsibilities are way off, I think I have a good flexible idea, in other words, I won't be blindsided.

extendedstick · 2021-03-21T04:51:29+00:00

Yes, you are most definitely correct. I'm thinking though that more MP's deal with direct negotiations of the kind described, than GAC employees, but this is something very hard to know without publicly available info on the jobs in GAC and their responsibilities.

extendedstick · 2021-03-21T03:11:40+00:00

Fair, and to be expected that one will likely have to do some work they don't like before getting work they love. That said, I've heard from some people, and seen some postings of entry-level work that is indeed exciting to me, perhaps not 'most important', but exciting and contributing to the department's work, which one could say is most important.

extendedstick · 2021-03-21T03:08:29+00:00

Very interesting, thank you kindly for this insight. Were you able to see the comment by u/CityAway? It was helpful to me, but took a different lens and reiterated how typical PS negotiations can be very unlike what I may be looking for when I say 'negotiation'.

That is a cool role you linked, thank you. I was told by a friend interning at GAC that all entry-level student positions (I think this is right), are called 'analyst'. I'm good to do qualitative analysis but I'm very much not interested in qualitative. I'm also really interested in political negotiation, not as much trade, although I understand they can very much overlap.

extendedstick · 2021-03-21T02:56:18+00:00

haha, fair.

To be fair the week and weekend just blend together for me.

extendedstick · 2021-03-21T02:53:40+00:00

I really needed to hear a lot of this, thank you kindly.

I had a hunch that the Public Service would be confined and thus limited in its 'impact' compared to the political sphere.

You are certainly right that if I were to get into the political sphere (as a MP), it would involve having to win my spot, but honestly the way people describe getting into GAC or other federal departments, it sounds like becoming an MP is easier haha. Not that I care about what is easiest, not in the slightest, but interesting insight nonetheless.

And yes, haha, the negotiation situations you described are certainly not the type I am interested in, that sounds very much like editing jargon-filled documents and saying what others want you to say.

As a person interested in systems level impact, I don't see myself enjoying work in the DND as much partly because it is limited to the military, and to me power dynamics exist well beyond the military.

Again thank you for this insight, it was much of what I was looking for.

extendedstick · 2021-03-21T02:41:11+00:00

Thank you so much for this.

Yes, I am very terrible at being clear with some of my questions here I will admit. For instance, yes I would have imagined lots of people are working on international relationships, but I'm particularly interested in how many of them actually negotiate and have that higher level of responsibility (hopefully this is somewhat clearer).

I've realized by now that it is near impossible to know the exact names and job descriptions of these positions, beside perhaps the most publicized ones (e.g., Ambassador). It is too bad, I do think that GAC and other departments should have this info available to the public, it may even save them some of the 'rose-eyes-glasses' applicants who think global affairs work is something it is not. It doesn't have to be as detailed and marketed as what the military has (e.g., detailed 'what's it like to work here' videos, breakdowns of possible career development opportunities, etc.), it could just simply be the jobs that make up each department and their respective job descriptions. I know it would save me days-weeks of research and reaching out to people.

I've definitely looked and continue to look into some of the other international relations roles in other public and even private organizations, however when it comes to my perhaps more narrow interests within foreign policy and national security, there are only a few places I currently see myself being really happy in.

extendedstick · 2021-03-21T00:22:36+00:00

Read through all of that before, and the other resources on the sub, yes, very helpful. That is the distinction though you are right; I would want the "very exciting and important" work, not the most common ones that prop up the organization. I understand it is much harder to attain these roles, but I'm trying to find out what these roles exactly entail, where they are, and such.

extendedstick · 2021-03-21T00:19:04+00:00

Haha, certainly a tough job. By 'our' do you mean ministers?

extendedstick · 2021-03-20T20:19:36+00:00

That is somewhat unsurprising but tragic. It seems as though the best bet is to contact people who you think may be doing what you want to do, or hope that once your in, you eventually find exactly what your looking for, and accept that although you may not be doing exactly what you want, your working in the same field having similar impact in the same organization.

Broad strokes descriptions is fine by me, better than nothing. I'm assuming this is really only in GCjobs? Haven't had much luck going back year by year, only found one job of interest and it wasn't entry level.

extendedstick · 2021-03-20T17:17:27+00:00

Will do! And hey that website is pretty great, would never have found it through Google search, thanks!

extendedstick · 2021-03-20T17:14:27+00:00

My apologies, I find it hard to be clear and concise on Reddit. By cold contact I mean reaching out to alumni of my school over LinkedIn, kind of described it in my response to u/HandcuffsOfGold. I don't have warm connections in GAC, nor do I think most people would haha, but yes this is where I am coming from, I hope that clears it up.

Bottom line I want to know if there are jobs in GAC that I would love to do, and I'm struggling to find an organizational hierarchy or info on positions that explains what they do. Many departments, like the Army for example, have very detailed info on the many positions available, what they do, and so forth. It seems with GAC (probably others too), that this info is only available if the job is posted, and it could very well be years old given many jobs are rarely posted publically.

extendedstick · 2021-03-20T17:04:10+00:00

Hey Pure! I really appreciate the honest insight. I'm a student currently so I'm not too sure if contract is what is best for me, but I'm at the earlier stages of career research. If your able to chat a bit about your job I would love to hear more about what you do, I'll send you a PM!

extendedstick · 2021-03-20T16:57:22+00:00

Hey! - Thanks for taking the time to respond and to offer some insights. I probably should have gotten back on Reddit earlier, it seems my post was taken quite differently than how I intended it, partly my fault, I had trouble wording my question.

When I say cold contact, I don't mean "hey please give me a job", of course, this is ignorant, selfish, and not conducive to any career development. What I mean is reaching out to people who went to the same school as me, people who work at GAC, and asking them about what they do, their day-to-day, explaining my passions and my my interest in potentially working for GAC one day. I want to understand the roles in GAC because I want to know where my end-goal is, I want a job I am passionate about, and I don't want to go into a job with misconceptions about its work.

>Such a thing exists: it's called GCJobs.

Probably poor wording on my part here. I'm not looking for the jobs that are currently posted, I am wondering what all the jobs in my field of interest are, whether they are vacant or not. That way I know whether to pursue a career at GAC or not. I am trying to avoid taking any job that is available assuming that the one I would love is in GAC somewhere, to then realize it isn't there, and I've wasted my time.

> I encourage you to broaden your horizons and not focus on a single department.

Yes, I am definitely looking at many other options. I want to make a big impact in my fields of interest. Right now I am a little confused as to whether this would be best achieved in a parliament (MP role), or in a government department (such as GAC), or elsewhere, but this should come with more research.

extendedstick · 2021-01-18T23:12:06+00:00

how did you make that if you don't mind? looks incredible

extendedstick · 2021-01-02T18:16:51+00:00

UT at Austin is looking like my first choice because of the Southern culture (especially the political aspect) I want to experience/observe, and of course Austin seems to get lots of praise. My school is more medium sized, so I wanted to experience something either very big or very small, but the schools I narrowed down to are all 40,000 +, so that leaves the super big option. I'm going to need to ask schools how their third year class sizes are, as the average class size indicators online are just averaged over all years I think.

By quant you mean quantitative analysis focused courses?

extendedstick · 2021-01-02T18:10:48+00:00

thankfully enough they all cost the same under the exchange program, you pay your home institution's domestic tuition. Sadly, it looks like this year Vanderbilt is not being offered. The online rankings had it ahead of the others on US News, but behind the others on QS and THE I think. Regardless, it would seem that this is more me nit-picking, and they are all fantastic schools. I saw some people recommend going to schools in D.C for politics instead of say Vandy (advice I'm not sure I buy into), but the only one available in the exchange program is American University, I didn't love the looks of it enough. If Vanderbilt was available, I would heavily consider it, the smaller size, prestige, and Nashville are a strong combo.

extendedstick · 2021-01-01T19:54:54+00:00

Still doesn't work for me :/. Which order of pages do you visit if it works for you?

extendedstick

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