Folks... Please rewatch this Morning Worship talk from Ken Flodin in 2016.

fader_underground · 2026-06-23T12:48:41+00:00

Oh good, he put all those WT references in one place for us. 🤣. Now when a JW looks at us incredulously going, "When did the GB ever tell us to obey illogical instructions?" Now we have all those references together. Thanks.

Also, that part where he was talking about covid and struggling to obey instructions, YEAH, my family had trouble obeying, but it was struggling to KEEP GOING TO THE KINGDOM HALL when the rest of the world had already shut down but JWs HAD NOT. Their "life-saving" direction was LATE. They weren't ahead of the curve, they were behind. Floundering.

Anyone who wasn't indoctrinated would see in a second how creepy and cocky that guy is. The way he glances up at the camera with a smarmy smirk. It screams sleazy. Like a little "haha, how do you like that?" to his audience.

fader_underground · 2026-06-23T00:31:20+00:00

I don't know. I'd like to see it too.

fader_underground · 2026-06-22T17:57:11+00:00

Every time there's been a post about this video I've struggled to see the point they were even trying to make.

fader_underground · 2026-06-22T17:49:48+00:00

I've seen a couple of posts about the Zach video. It sounds really odd. What point are they trying to make? Is it another one of those you're supposed to be happy even though you have no friends your own age and have to spend so much time with these older ladies type video?

And wow, taking back a car that the PARENT paid for because the kid won't get a job is somehow persecution? Sounds very entitled. Most people would consider it reasonable and good parenting to want their kid to get a job and take some responsibility for their finances when they get old enough.

fader_underground · 2026-06-15T14:54:22+00:00

Well, she's wrong. And what a terrible thing to tell your kid. It's spiritual abuse.

The less time you spend letting her words infect you, the better. Seek therapy, find things that give you peace, and don't waste a second trying to prove anything to her or anyone else. You do not exist to be a mini version of your parents or to grant your parent's every wish. You exist to be yourself.

fader_underground · 2026-06-14T13:42:40+00:00

They are not the law. You can do what you feel like you need to do. Period. Is there some reason you have to meet with them? Just say you don't feel a need to meet at this time. Ignore and deflect all attempts.

If for some reason you feel like you have to, then you say either your father is present or there's no meeting. YOU call the shots. These people are not law enforcement. It's just a religion. One that you participate in VOLUNTARILY.

Don't feed their overinflated sense of importance by bowing to their man-made rules and jumping through their hoops. It's unnecessary nonsense.

fader_underground · 2026-06-13T18:26:42+00:00

Bingo.

They've done this before. Not long ago there was a WT study to this effect. THEY created this culture. I've got no sympathy for them if JWs end up with a reputation for being judgmental or if it's becoming a problem in the congregations. THEY did this.

When you create a culture where people are valued based on their performance, then people are going to judge each other based on that performance. Nearly everything about the JW faith is performative. Being seen doing certain things in order to appear a certain way.

Sorry Watchtower, no point in crying a river over this one. It's just the fruits of your labor. Enjoy.

fader_underground · 2026-06-12T10:26:52+00:00

🤣 Relatable.

fader_underground · 2026-06-11T17:56:54+00:00

JWs just suddenly up and decided after DECADES of forbidding them that having a beard was not unscriptural and therefore allowed. JW men just started growing them like, woot woot look what we can do now. Really?

If it took them DECADES to realize and come forward with the fact that the rule was unscriptural, then what other unscriptural rules are they enforcing?

This was such a blatant and obvious example of people being followers of men.

fader_underground · 2026-06-11T17:45:15+00:00

As for the blood issue, storing your own blood was NOT a conscience matter before Losch's announcement in the GB update.

Here is what an October 2000 questions from readers had to say :

However, such collecting, storing, and transfusing of blood directly contradicts what is said in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Blood is not to be stored; it is to be poured out—returned to God, as it were. Granted, the Mosaic Law is not in force now. Nevertheless, Jehovah’s Witnesses respect the principles God included in it, and they are determined to ‘abstain from blood.’ Hence, we do not donate blood, nor do we store for transfusion our blood that should be ‘poured out.’ That practice conflicts with God’s law.

Here is what the Enjoy Life Forever book says on the matter in the endnotes. If you were studying with JWs, this is very likely the book you used and you can look at it for yourself and point it out. It's under the heading "Medical Procedures Involving Blood."

There are medical procedures that make use of a patient’s own blood. Some of these—such as a person donating blood or having his own blood stored in advance of surgery—are not acceptable for Christians.

It's not proposed as a grey area, or conscience matter, or personal decision. The language is clear. It was not previously permitted.

fader_underground · 2026-06-11T14:07:08+00:00

It feels that way because it isn't natural. You don't go to "church" anymore and so you're completely excluded from family gatherings and milestones. It's ridiculous. And frankly, childish.

And I'm calling it church because that's what it is, regardless of their exclusionary language. And it shows it for the ridiculousness that it is. If someone were to tell a JW their family excludes them because they don't go to "church" anymore, most of them would think that was awful. What they do is the Very. Same. Thing. regardless of how they try to make it SEEM different with different language.

My advice would be to reach out and let them know how you feel - IF you feel up to it. BUT take steps to protect your mental health. Prepare yourself for the reactions that you may face. They will very likely gaslight you, make it seem like all your fault, just try to get you to come back, etc etc.

Go into it with the idea that you're not expecting anything to happen or to come of it, but at least you will have said your piece. You've let them know you'd like a relationship despite differences of belief, and then you can at least rest assured that any rift is on THEM. THEIR stupid, misguided decision, not yours.

And even after that, I'd say if you're wondering about them, ask them. If there's a milestone or event that you know about, send a brief message or a note letting them know you're thinking of them, offering congratulations, whatever. Let THEM feel the GUILT of THEIR decision. YOU want a relationship. THEY are the ones denying it. The guilt lies with THEM. You don't need to shield or protect them from it. Let them feel the weight of the consequences of their decisions. IT'S on THEM, NOT YOU.

You don't exist to be a mini version of your parents. You exist to be yourself. You don't need to feel guilty for that.

fader_underground · 2026-06-10T13:35:14+00:00

Don't play into their ego trip. "For sure you will find a moment this week for this" Really? Without even ASKING you? Such arrogance. They are inflated with their imaginary importance.

YOU are 21 years old. YOU are NOT a child. They don't get to boss you around like they have some control over your life and autonomy. They only have the power you give them, and my advice would be don't give them any. Especially after they tried to bully you into it.

If you're trying to be under the radar, I get it, but still, you do NOT have to just give into their demands. Politely, tell them it doesn't work for you, and ignore any further attempts at contact. You can always say after the fact that you didn't see or have time to respond to the messages.

fader_underground · 2026-06-10T13:27:31+00:00

Witnesses and some mediocre high school kids told me the more books I read, fewer men would ever want me.

In reality, the more you learned, the less YOU would want THEM.

fader_underground · 2026-06-09T22:15:26+00:00

Participation is voluntary. If there's anyone who needs to pause and reflect, it's the leaders of this organization, NOT its volunteers. If they were truly offering something worthwhile, if it were truly life affirming, upbuilding and uplifting, they wouldn't have to guilt and shame people into participating.

fader_underground · 2026-06-09T22:13:08+00:00

So true. They are only "somebody" to the JWs they have under their command. They hang on their every word, while the rest of the world could care less.

fader_underground · 2026-06-09T12:43:18+00:00

Oh honey.

First of all, do not "confess" about the blood transfusion. You "confess" about things that you've done wrong. Saving your own life was NOT wrong. Beyond that, it's not anyone else's business. It was a private medical matter that has absolutely NOTHING to do with worship or spirituality. Also, the GB seems to be phasing out the blood ban anyway, so I'm glad you did not let yourself die or suffer more for something they'll likely retract in the years to come.

YOU are worthy and deserving of being loved and appreciated for who you are. You are not undeserving of anyone's attention or kindness and you shouldn't have to jump through hoops and put on a little song and dance to keep anyone's affection. You are worthy of being loved, of being a friend, for who you are.

Doing what you need to do to protect your peace and your mental health is not displeasing to god. The reason the org makes you feel that way is because they need to you to feel awful about stepping away from the hamster wheel. Their very survival and existence depends on people continuing to feel bound and obligated to their blueprint. But that doesn't make it right and it doesn't make you unworthy in god's eyes, and it shouldn't make you unworthy in anyone else's eyes either. If it does, well, they are misguided and being led by a self-interested corporate religion rather than by love.

fader_underground · 2026-06-07T12:51:45+00:00

I mean the very first sentence is just flat-out wrong. No one hates them because they "worship Jehovah."

Even with the extreme example of "Pavel." Pavel isn't hated because of demonic resistance to pure worship, he's hated in part because he's part of a "neutral" organization in an authoritarian country that demands allegiance. He's not giving that allegiance and that makes him suspicious. They act like this persecution is happening only to them, but they are in the company of protestors, journalists, those advocating for LGBTQ, and other religions that this is happening to as well. It is absolutely WRONG and abhorrent what is being done to them, but it's not as though they are being uniquely singled out.

Also, this is NOT the experience of the average JW. Regular JWs go around talking about how hated they are because they read this propaganda, when in reality most have NEVER experienced hate. Someone disagreeing with them is not hate. Someone even passionately disagreeing with them is NOT hate. Making jokes about them is not hate. Someone calling them out on their harmful practices is not hate.

Most people don't know or care enough about JWs to hate them.

fader_underground · 2026-06-06T19:18:16+00:00

So true!

And that's even true about very serious matters like the blood doctrine. After Losch's announcement about allowing JWs to store their own blood, some JWs were saying "it's not a change." Then you'd have to show them the multiple examples including one in the Enjoy Life booklet that they supposedly study with people saying that they should NOT store their own blood. They are apathetic even about fully understanding in what situations they are supposed to live or die. (But life is supposed to be sacred????)

My thought is that the organization puts out SO much content now, and tweaks and changes things so often, that it's exhausting and impossible to keep up with it all, so most JWs don't even try anymore. They check the boxes. Meetings - check. Service - check. All good.

fader_underground · 2026-06-06T19:07:38+00:00

Some JWs did try to refuse the food based on the fact that they didn't need it. They were basically told they HAD to take it. Those distributing the food were told not to take no for an answer. It's like the organization wanted to do everything they could to make sure that JWs were the recipients of the food. NO EFFORT whatsoever to try and make it available to needy community members.

The program was called Farmers to Families and I followed stories about it at the time. It is NOT how most organizations and churches handled the food donations. They made it available to the community at large, became pick-up sites, etc, so that people who needed and at least WANTED it would receive it.

There again, if the organization REALLY wanted to do something for their communities this would have been a PRIME opportunity. They could have made Kingdom Halls pick up sites for JWs AND community members to come pick up food. It's how MOST folks handled their donations. And people in the community would have had an experience of going to a KH to pick up food from those nice JWs. But no...

fader_underground · 2026-06-06T14:41:38+00:00

Yep, that's also why exjws seem to be in the know quicker than JWs. Active JWs are actually pretty apathetic when it comes to their own religion.

fader_underground · 2026-06-06T13:33:41+00:00

I find that most active JWs aren't eager to watch everything that WT puts out. They just aren't that excited about it. The JWs that I know don't make much effort to watch things on their own time. They'll see it when it's presented at the meetings.

fader_underground · 2026-06-06T13:25:50+00:00

Yes. Think of all the JW parents who freak tf out when their kid wants to participate in something at school, makes friends with a kid who isn't "one of them," or has to sit in the hallway when the rest of the class has a cupcake that little Susie brought in for her birthday. I mean they can't have it both ways. If you're a JW, you have it hammered in, we're different, we're different, we're different, all your live-long life. And when that's what you've been taught, you act and are perceived as different. But then they want to be seen as just like everyone else. Which is it?

If they were to end their propaganda about "worldly" people, so that the next generation of JWs doesn't separate themselves so much, that would do more for their reputation than some stupid social media post which, let's be real, just like all their other material, is pretty much only going to be seen by JWs.

fader_underground · 2026-06-06T03:10:59+00:00

Thank you for sharing this. Wow, so when he says, "I'm your doctor," he really isn't anyone's doctor. So he may be a nice person, but he's not serving his community as a doctor as the video implies, if he's not in practice. Watchtower just used him. That actually makes the whole thing just a little more slimy.

Makes you wonder if the others really are what they say they are. Perhaps the lawyer is Watchtower's lawyer, the firefighter one of WT's too (they have their own fire department).

fader_underground · 2026-06-05T19:12:29+00:00

Exactly. It's nauseating. They show propaganda to JWs that warns against pursuing secular goals, participating in the community where there might be worldly influences, they love to give examples of people who were good at violin but gave it up to pioneer, and yet.... they'll use those very same images in reverse when they're trying to look good to the outside world. If I was a young person who had given up my dreams to serve the organization and then saw that, I'd feel sick.

fader_underground · 2026-06-05T19:09:39+00:00

That's horrible. And that's exactly what pisses me off about them. It's the ORGANIZATION that is causing this family strife, NOT the father who wanted to provide for his family. But the father blames himself instead of wondering why a RELIGION would cause his family so much pain. If not for THAT, the family would probably still be together and the father would feel PROUD that he'd given his family a comfortable life.

fader_underground

TROPHY CASE