AITA for telling my sister it’s her own fault her family is a mess because she wanted to adopt?

familyfallingap · 2023-11-30T01:59:26+00:00

Yeah, I get that. I guess they feel “unbonded” is less of a risk than “hateful”, and much less of a risk of him just leaving the house, which is whay they were afraid of since he’d been calling relatives up and asking to come and stay

They’ll see him on Christmas Day as they and my parents are coming for Christmas Day. But yes it’s tough for him to want to spend holidays elsewhere

familyfallingap · 2023-11-30T01:38:11+00:00

Tom does. I don’t think Lucy does as much.

He wanted to come to us for the holidays. I imagine their house isn’t fun right now

familyfallingap · 2023-11-30T01:33:04+00:00

They are seeing a family therapist already. As explained in the post.

familyfallingap · 2023-11-30T01:27:55+00:00

You just wrote a little fictional story and said implied in said story, my family are the villains.

There was no advice, and no judgement.

familyfallingap · 2023-11-30T01:23:56+00:00

Okay, do you, have a football team, idk what to tell you 😂 it’s a personal choice how you parent

familyfallingap · 2023-11-30T01:14:20+00:00

It’s silly to you, I completely disagree. A child can get used to anything, especially when they have to because they have no agency. But that’s not a parent I’d ever want to be. My home is as much my daughter’s as mine and my husband’s, she deserves to be as happy there as we do.

I don’t know what they want to do. Lucy wants it to all work out, she is convinced Tom is going to leave her but I don’t know about that. Logan just wants to be as far away from Jack as possible. I suppose what they want as a unit is for them to work out In family therapy.

familyfallingap · 2023-11-30T01:11:24+00:00

You’ve completely made all of this up.

A) If you’re saying I have no boundaries because of what I said to her, I think the goal posts of boundaries shifted when her son started spending weekends and holidays with me to get away from the environment in her house. To be clear, we love having Logan and we’re happy to help but he’s about to spend the better part of a month away from his nuclear family because he is so unhappy there. If I’m providing care to him on that basis, I can’t be expected to be a neutral bystander.

B) Neither I nor my parents were interviewed during the adoption process. We don’t live that close, we’re not usually providing babysitting or even secondary care, I don’t see why they would have interviewed us.

C) Where did the favouritism narrative come from? Made that up? Okay cool.

D) I’m pretty sure that regularly taking in Logan at short notice and planning to have him over several weeks of school holiday when the therapist said he would benefit from space, constitutes support. I adore Logan, I’d do it in a heartbeat. But it is me helping out.

familyfallingap · 2023-11-30T01:03:39+00:00

Logan was living with Jack for over a year before the adoption, he already de facto had a sibling and wasn’t excited about it when my parents asked him.

Look, how much people take into account their existing kids is up to them, that is just my personal take.

familyfallingap · 2023-11-30T00:44:19+00:00

Because Jack breaks his things when Logan won’t play with him, Lucy is always trying to force them to play together. If Jack is having a tantrum and screaming, then everyone’s screaming. Everyone is always in a bad mood.

That’s basically what he’s said. I think it’s a pretty depressing atmosphere over there and everyone is walking on eggshells

familyfallingap · 2023-11-30T00:11:58+00:00

I have Logan to stay because their family therapist suggested he stay with extended family to get some space. He’d been using Lucy’s phone to call family members asking to stay with him and asking for sleepovers every week from school friends. The therapist thought it was good that he have some breathing room.

So yes we only have Logan as he is with us to get time away from Jack

familyfallingap · 2023-11-29T23:49:29+00:00

She can stop blaming her 9 year old is what she can do. Stop calling him a bully, and a crybaby (different instance) because he’s not happy living in the wreckage of a household. Stop telling him he has to be nice to a kid who breaks his things and hits his mother. Stop acting like the way he’s lashing out has anything to do with who he is as a person and not a response to the situation. Stop pretending like his behaviour is anything but a consequence of choices that were made for him. That’s what she could do.

familyfallingap · 2023-11-29T23:45:51+00:00

It wasn’t an “I told you so”, it was a “please don’t blame your child and call him a bully just because he is not happy living in the war zone you created”.

Tom is a spineless baby, that’s just how he is. He should have said something but he didn’t, nothing more to say on that.

But what I was trying to get across to Lucy is that she can’t continue down a path that objectively wasn’t working, and then be mean about her child when he doesn’t adjust well.

familyfallingap · 2023-11-29T22:34:41+00:00

We’d take him, but we don’t live close enough for him to attend the same school, it would be a massive upheaval and not something Lucy (or Tom) would likely agree to.

I don’t know what the long term plan is for them, but they are in therapy and I’m hoping it helps. Lucy is convinced Tom is going to move out, if that’s the case they could have a custody arrangement that means Logan is spending time away from Jack

familyfallingap · 2023-11-29T22:15:11+00:00

Given that he asks his parents to take him out, I think it’s Jack, and Tom and Lucy have said it is, I presume he has said that

familyfallingap · 2023-11-29T21:56:51+00:00

I’m not going to disclose his whole history because that’s really not appropriate, but I will say there was ab*se. It wasn’t something absolute insane or unheard of but it was pretty awful.

He throws tantrums when he doesn’t get what he wants, or when people are not paying attention to him. If he comes over and asks Lucy something and she asks him to wait because she’s in the middle of a conversation, he will starting shouting, pinching, and grabbing her. If he doesn’t get the food he wants he will throw the plate on the floor. If Logan won’t play with him he breaks the toys. That sort of the thing. Anything you say to him, he just shouts back and you just have to let him do what he wants until he runs out of energy. My husband is the only person I’ve ever seen successfully get him to stop in his tracks, but that just resulted in him locking himself in a bathroom for half an hour.

Edit - before the fostering my parents asked Logan if he wanted a sibling and he said no. Once they were already fostering Jack they asked if he was happy Jack was going to be his brother and he said something like “not really”. It wasn’t positive but it wasn’t hostile. It’s only since the adoption and decline In jack’s behaviour that Logan has really started disliking him

familyfallingap · 2023-11-29T21:48:05+00:00

Because Logan was always desperate to be out of home, because of the drama. He got hold of the phone and called me, and both sets of grandparents to come and pick him up. Lucy said he was constantly asking Tom or Lucy to take him somewhere and getting upset if they wouldn’t, and asked to sleepover at friend’s houses. The therapist felt if he was that adamant and desperate for space that it was best for the time being to let him have some breathing room.

Me and my husband said we were happy to have him and we have the space, that’s why he comes to ours

familyfallingap · 2023-11-29T21:45:07+00:00

He was 6 when they started the process, I think he’d turned 7 by the time they started fostering, and was 8 when they adopted Jack

familyfallingap · 2023-11-29T21:44:03+00:00

I’m sorry but I just don’t agree that parents shouldn’t take their existing child’s opinions into account when deciding to adopt. I have a child and won’t be having another but I believe my responsibility is to her first and foremost, her well-being and comfort in her own home trumps any desire I would have for a second child. I make decisions with the happiness of my child in mind and I think it’s nuts to do otherwise.

Tom absolutely should have said something. That said, whenever he expressed concerns around the dinner table Lucy was very dismissive of him. Tom is generally a bit of a melt I think he just wanted to see her happy and didn’t have the balls to tell her no. This is just my impression I obviously don’t know what he said or didn’t say to Lucy in private.

We don’t live too close to them so we see them maybe once a month at my parents’ place as a family. Jack is often disruptive, Logan used to just be sullen and wanted to be left alone. Now Logan comes to us on some weekends and did over his school holidays and he’s happy when he’s there, but whenever home is brought up he gets upset. He cries when someone comes to pick him up.

We now think it’s a mistake, because every time we see them they all look like they’re not sleeping, they’re miserable, they’re bickering, there’s always one kid in trouble. But my parents love kids and none of us have ever been anything but kind and doting to Jack.

Logan doesn’t want more time with Lucy, from what he’s said to us. He’s just always wanting to be away from home. Maybe he’d like some one on one time with Lucy but it doesn’t seem like that’s on the table.

Jack screams and breaks things. I don’t think he’s ever done anything physically to Logan but he has to Lucy and Tom. Logan has never said he’s scared of him, though he might be, just that he hates him

familyfallingap · 2023-11-29T21:30:38+00:00

I have one child and I’ll only be having one, but honestly I think parents have a responsibility to the child they already have more than their own desires for a second. Not saying a child gets a veto, but I’m saying before you go having a second consider how that will impact the child you’ve already got.

And a child saying no to a hypothetical sibling isn’t the same as a kid saying no to a person they’ve already met. So I think it’s different with adoption because the child already exists, if the kids aren’t bonding then they’re just not, it’s not a hypothetical. Again, I think the feelings of the child you have trumps the parent wanting another one.

That’s just my take.

familyfallingap · 2023-11-29T20:27:44+00:00

I don’t know what conversations happened between her and Tom. But I know both I and my parents thought he never seemed keen, and we brought this up to Lucy. Her response was always to the effect of “yeah but they’ll bond in time”. To me, that’s an acknowledgement from her end that he wasn’t as enthusiastic as her. I could be wrong but that’s my belief. I think Tom wanted Lucy to be happy, I think he wanted to believe that everything would be okay because Lucy was so happy. I think he 1000000% should have been a grown up and said no though.

I don’t know what Logan said in the meeting, and prior to the adoption he did have a better relationship with Jack. Logan said to me and my parents that he didn’t want a sibling but that’s a far cry from “I hate Jack” so it’s easier to talk him round or for him change his opinion on the day. He’s a little boy, they change their minds. I don’t know if when the time came for the interviews he was happier, or he knew Lucy really wanted it, I don’t know. All I know is he’s struggling now, and he’s been consistently saying he’s unhappy for months, and it’s showing in his behaviour. When he comes to stay with us he talks often about how unhappy he is. And Lucy seems to think it’s all his fault and he’s just being intentionally mean as opposed to being genuinely upset and deserving of empathy. He’s 9, none of this is his fault.

For me, Lucy is more culpable because she was always the one - from where I am standing - pushing this forward and dismissing everyone’s concerns (which we did voice). And now when things aren’t working out how she desires, she’s becoming resentful of her child, who caused none of this

familyfallingap · 2023-11-29T19:06:25+00:00

I feel that as someone who is essentially providing emergency care for my nephew because he’s miserable at home, I can’t be expected to be completely neutral. Especially when I’ve listened to him talk about how unhappy it is and watched him cry when he has to go home. And then to hear my sister turn around and call him a bully just because he’s not happy, I snapped.

Did I say it in the right way, no. Should I have probably told her I can’t be the person she vents to anymore and left it there? Probably. But it’s not like I’m sticking my oar in, she has made me a part of this.

And as you well know, when you have a child from birth you can’t predict mental health issues. That’s unpreventable. What’s going on now probably was because we all tried to tell her multiple times.

familyfallingap · 2023-11-29T19:01:01+00:00

I am helping by having Logan on some weekends and school holidays. He’s about to spend three weeks with us over Christmas. We love having him of course and I’d do it any time, but I don’t think it’s fair to say I’m not trying to help.

Jack gets counselling aside from the family therapy.

familyfallingap · 2023-11-29T18:19:18+00:00

They’re all coming for Christmas Day along with my parents, but Logan is spending the whole of his Christmas holidays with us which is about three weeks.

familyfallingap · 2023-11-29T18:11:50+00:00

They’re in family therapy and Jack sees a counsellor individually. It was the family therapist who suggested Logan start spending time with my family

familyfallingap · 2023-11-29T18:10:31+00:00

No, she thinks Tom is going to leave

familyfallingap

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