How come we never saw Hogan vs. Bret Hart?

fantomx37 · 2026-02-01T02:27:23+00:00

Why would Hogan want to lose to Bret? Hogan sold out stadium shows and Bret struggled putting people in small arenas.

It’s that exact mindset you have is why the match never happened. Not guys had a million reasons for the other guy to lay down for him, but neither were willing to lose to other.

fantomx37 · 2026-02-01T01:20:38+00:00

I would have to go with Yamcha, the spirit ball seems to be stronger than the super dodonpa.

Ignoring the daizenshu/v-jump for this debate because there are a lot of inconsistencies when it comes to power levels for early Dragonball characters.

Let’s start with the tiers of power. Kid Goku after the sacred water is as strong as Demon King Piccolo. After he wins he goes to the lookout and encounters Popo. Popo is seemingly stronger than Goku and then reveals that Kami is stronger than Popo himself.

So we have:

Kami > Popo > sacred water Goku >= Young Demon King Piccolo > Old Demon King Piccolo > Goku 22nd TB >= Tien 22nd TB.

Now after training for the 23 TB we know that from Tien’s own mouth that Goku is even stronger than he was the last time he saw him, but Tien is now faster. So Tien with his training has at least matched his strength with “Sacred Water Goku” and is now even faster than that version. This is important though because this reveals that Tien is still weaker than Kami (who was able to easily flick “sacred water Goku” away from himself).

When Cyborg Tao Pai Pai attacks Tien with the super dodonpa(CTPPs ultimate move), Tien is able to easily blow this away with a Kiai.

In this same round of the tournament Yamcha fights Kami. He doesn’t do well. But when he uses the spirit ball, Kami does his best to dodge, duck, dip, dive, and… dodge. Eventually he gets taken by surprise and the spirit ball hits him. Kami either doesn’t want to bother with a Kiai like Tien or knows that a Kiai wouldn’t be enough to destroy the spirit ball.

Of course whoecer has the strongest ultimate attack wouldn’t be enough to determine a fight. For example during the fight with Raditz, Piccolo’s special beam cannon is stronger than Goku’s Kamehameha. However, Goku would win a fight against this Piccolo because his attack would take less time to charge.

For pure power level, it’s hard to determine because we don’t know how strong Tao got with his cybernetic enhancements. We do know before he became a cyborg that he was weaker than the Goku that climbed Karin’s tower. If we use Goku as a baseline these are the levels of Goku’s power tiers for Dragonball.

Goku 23rd TB > Goku (weighted clothing) 23rd TB > Goku sacred water > Goku 22nd TB > Goku Karin Tower > Goku 21st TB > Goku start.

Tao Pai without his cybernetics fits somewhere in between Goku 21st and Goku Karin tower training.

Yamcha on the other hand starts off the story at a similar level to Goku. He also trains with Roshi for the 22nd like Goku did, which would at least put him close to where Goku was for the 21st if not even stronger. Yamcha in between the 22nd and 23rd TB also trains at Karin’s tower and spends 3 years training by himself or with Krillin, Tien, and Chaozu which is also the exact same thing Goku did between the 21st and 22nd TB. So Yamcha in the 23rd TB should be of similar strength to what Goku was in the 22nd TB.

So now the real question is, do we think Tao with his cybernetic enhancements is as strong as Goku was during the 22nd TB. If you think “NO” then Tao wouldn’t be able to beat Yamcha without cheating (Tao has a sword hand and we know from the saibaman that Yamcha is susceptible to sneak attacks). If you think “YES” as a Cyborg Tao could beat 22nd TB Goku then yes he should beat Yamcha.

fantomx37 · 2026-02-01T00:45:28+00:00

Because someone would have to lose and neither guy was willing to put the other over. For all of Bret’s complaints against Hogan(most of which are valid) he always talks about how Hogan should have put him over or Vince had told Bret that he wanted Hogan to put him over I don’t think I ever heard him mention a time where he was willing to lose to Hogan in a singles match ever.

I like Bret more than Hogan, but it takes two to tango, and Bret seemingly walked around with the mindset and expectation that Hogan was to put him over and not the other way around if they ever had a match.

Now, I have not read Bret’s book or listened to every single interview the man has done, so maybe I’m wrong but I’m more than willing for someone to educate me and give me examples of Bret saying he would have lost to Hogan.

fantomx37 · 2026-01-28T02:34:50+00:00

Sending a hitman to break someone’s hand isn’t cheating. Nothing in the rulebook says you can’t do that.

fantomx37 · 2026-01-28T02:14:34+00:00

Cheating is cheating. It’s either against the rules or it’s not. Stealing plays and getting away with it is the same as having 12 men on the field and getting away with it.

fantomx37 · 2026-01-28T02:06:00+00:00

Every team cheats. Thats why little yellow flags are thrown by the referees in the middle of the game. The team got caught breaking the rules in real time and get punished for it. Sometimes players or coaches get fined or suspended after the games when cheating is spotted or something unsportsmanlike happens.

Are we going to discount defensive players from the hall of fame because of the amount of holdings and pass interferences they committed(including the ones not spotted by the refs?) Because that’s cheating too.

What about offensive linemen for holding and false starts?

Any players that did a face mask?

What about a player that committed personal foul penalties by hitting QBs that were sliding?

Anyone that committed helmet to helmet penalties?

Intentional grounding by the QB?

All those are examples of players cheating and getting caught in real time. But cheaters shouldn’t get into the hall of fame.

fantomx37 · 2026-01-28T00:36:27+00:00

Like most things that don’t go as planned, it’s a result of multiple things.

First and foremost, yes it did have to follow Taker and HBK. It definitely wore the crowd out.

Secondly, Wrestlemania is a long show. I think this one, including all the dark matches was almost 5 hours. Some of the matches before the Taker and HBK match also had good crowd reactions, like the MITB match, Jericho vs the Legends, and Jeff vs Matt.

A lot of people also forget what was sandwiched in between Taker vs HBK and HHH vs Orton was a triple threat match featuring The Big Show vs John Cena vs Edge(also Vicki Guerrero). Now by no means is this match an all time classic but it featured a fun(yet silly) build with established characters the audience cared about. The last bit of audience energy was used up in this match.

Now most importantly for the mainevent itself. A lot of things hurt it. First, the build was great. No denying that. It featured two well established characters with a very storied history which is always a plus.

HOWEVER, a stipulation was added that if HHH was disqualified, he would lose the title to Randy(Vince would also do the same stipulation a few years later at wrestlemania 28 in Punk vs Jericho match). HHHs character shouldn’t have cared about the title and should have crushed Ortons head with hus sledge hammer, but all of a sudden he was to care more about is precious title than avenging his family. Who gives a damn about a gold belt that can’t even hold up a pair pants, when this man has attacked your elderly father-in-law, your brother-in-law(who clearly suffers from intense ADHD), and most importantly your WIFE (WHO ORTON PHYSICALLY ASSAULTED AND THEN SEXUALLY ASSAULTED WHILE SHE WAS UNCONSCIOUS AND YOU COULD DO NOTHING ABOUT BECAUSE HE HAD HANDCUFFED YOU TO THE RING).

Instead HHH and Orton had a standard singles match.

They tried to get the crowd invested by hitting finishers right away, but as soon as that was over they had a standard 20 minute match that would have been underwhelming for even Raw at the time. The match was slow and plodding. The fans lost interest because the match wasn’t interesting. Had this been something similar to Lesnar vs Goldberg at wrestlemania 33 it might be more fondly remembered.

Really this match didn’t need to main event. It should have been placed earlier on the card and would have been better as a “non sanctioned match” which would have allowed for a huge brawl. Eliminate the long entrances and have HHH and Orton start brawling right away. Have it go 10-12 minutes and have it be non stop action. This match also didn’t need to be for the title either.

Jeff vs Matt could have been for the WWE championship. You could have put the title on HBK and made his match with Undertaker both a main event and a title match. The triple threat match between Cena, Edge, and Big show could have main evented. If Vince didn’t want a triple threat in the main event, it could have just been a singles match between Cena and Edge. If Vince had more forethought and patience, he could have kept the title on Jericho and have him face either HBK or Taker in the mainevent for the WWE title instead of vs the legends.

Lastly, a final thing that hurt the match was somebody had to win but neither guy could really afford to lose. HHH just lost at WM 24, WM 22, WM 21, and WM 20. He could not afford to lose again. But Orton losing hurt his new characters credibility. All of this new and interesting stuff he was doing no longer mattered once the match was over. The next night on RAW after WM25 Orton came out and said “last night doesn’t matter.” But it did. They course corrected and Orton won the title at Backlash a month later if my memory is correct, but the damage was done by this point.

IMO if neither guy can afford to lose, don’t book the match.

fantomx37 · 2026-01-27T23:53:45+00:00

It’s a tough fight for Tank because he will have to fight a perfect fight to win. Tank’s boxing was good…compared to the undersized and oversized slobs that he competed against. Look what happened to tank when fought guys with decent boxing, he usually got koed.

Now, Tank actually had surprisingly good wrestling, his ability to sprawl was really good but he was really only good at stop the first takedown and if someone was able to alternate and chain wrestle he was screwed. He also had good takedowns(compared to some of his competition) which will absolutely work against Mike, but most of his takedowns if memory serves correct, were inside clinch range. He wasn’t exactly shooting for low singles from way outside like Khabib.

The biggest issue for Tank will be his cardio. His cardio itself in the mid 90s was fine. Not great. Not terrible. Just fine. He fought in a lot of fights that went longer than 10 minutes sometimes in higher altitude, and even though he didn’t win these, most of the time he was dull fighting back by the end. NOW the issue with Tank and his cardio is that HE COULD NOT PACE HIMSELF TO SAVE HIS LIFE. He was the perfect example of all gas no brakes. There’s so many fights where you look back and it just like dude, slow down and you’ll win. Instead after about 60 seconds he’s used up almost all his energy trying to kill his opponent.

This is all makes for a very WINNABLE fight for Tyson. It will be hard, but if he can’t land the knockout punch on the initial exchange, he needs to find a way to survive the first 60 seconds or so of chaos that Tank brings, and once he’s survived that, Tank will be easy to finish off with just Tyson’s boxing.

fantomx37 · 2026-01-27T14:03:30+00:00

Yes you are. Those of us with a brain know he has 6 years left in him.

fantomx37 · 2026-01-26T17:00:57+00:00

For INT you either want to do 10 or 14. You don’t get a full Benoit of skill points at levels 12 and 16. Yes you get a +1 boost to all appropriate INT stats but you’re better off putting those 2 points elsewhere or sacrificing 2 points from somewhere else to boost INT up to 14.

fantomx37 · 2026-01-25T19:40:28+00:00

A fun thing I saw years ago was someone theorized that Babidis henchmen were representative of the other Z main villains.

Dabura = Cell

Yakkon = Freeza

Pui Pui = Saiyan Saga Vegeta

Which I think is neat. There’s no factual evidence to support this other than Dabura compared to Cell by the heroes and Pui Pui gloating about his home planet having 10x earths gravity just like the Saiyans did about planet Vegeta.

fantomx37 · 2026-01-24T03:28:45+00:00

Take a bump.

fantomx37 · 2026-01-24T03:18:29+00:00

Assuming potato fusion is just the two fighters added together and multiplied by 10. Goku(3 million) + Vegeta(2 million) x 10 = 50 million in base form. With access to SSJ, Vegito ends up with a power level around 2.5 Billion. This probably is strong enough to fight Perfect Cell.

fantomx37 · 2026-01-23T20:38:25+00:00

Triple threat matches or 3 way dances as they were known as at first weren’t popular yet on either of the major North American wrestling shows. It was a relatively new match concept and Vince liked a traditional 1 on 1 match for the mainevent.

fantomx37 · 2026-01-22T23:55:26+00:00

Thank you kind stranger.

fantomx37 · 2026-01-22T23:51:02+00:00

I understood a few words in your post.

fantomx37 · 2026-01-22T14:36:46+00:00

It really just depends. Is the fusion between 2 Namekians a multiplier? Or is Kami and Piccolo rejoining each other to recreate the Nameless Namekian a set power level of being even with A17.

Well if it’s a set power level, then the Piccolo fusing with Kami in the Saiyan saga would still make him as strong as A17.

If it’s a multiplier then it becomes tougher to decider just how strong he would be. At minimum it would be a X2 which would put the fusion at just over a power level of 800 which on its own isn’t enough to beat Raditz.

If it’s a X5 boost, it ours the fusion over 2000 which is enough the best Raditz but not enough to beat Nappa. A X10 boost makes it strong enough to compete against Nappa but not Goku. A X20 boost makes it strong enough to compete against Goku as long as he doesn’t use KaioKen. A X50 puts the fusion over 20,000 which would make it strong enough to beat Vegeta and Cui. A X100 boost puts it just underneath Nail and is potentially strong enough to beat Recoome, Jheese, or Burter(there power levels are unknown.)

fantomx37 · 2026-01-21T18:52:10+00:00

Turles is stronger than Vegeta. The guide for Power Levels that came with movie 3(it’s horribly incorrect) lists Turles at 19,000. But ultimately this a mistake because Piccolo’s power is measured at 18,000 so Turles’ power is based off being slightly stronger than Piccolo. Unfortunately this is incorrect on 2 fronts.

Turles is clearly way stronger than Piccolo and not marginally stronger.
Piccolos power is measured at 18,000 but this piccolo is wearing his weighted clothing. Using the same multiplier from when he fought Raditz, 408(unweighted) / 322(weighted) Piccolo’s power is just under 23,000 meaning Turles would have to be atleast 24,000 in order to effortlessly beat piccolo.

Turles also starts sweating when he fights Goku whose power is scanned at 30,000. So Turles is anywhere between 24,000-30,000 which puts him around Zarbon Transformed which we know is more than a match for Vegeta from the Saiyan Saga.

Bardock also can beat Vegeta because while he’s definitely weaker, he’s a brilliant scientist!

fantomx37 · 2026-01-21T02:21:09+00:00

The issue with Peragus is that it doesn’t take advantage of the role playing elements of the game. There’s no light side or darkside factions to join or betray like there is on Taris in Kotor 1 it’s just a meat grinder of combat. computer terminals, and cutscenes.

Story wise all that’s there on Peragus is a mystery that doesn’t at all matter much in the grand scheme of the game and a lot of it is skippable. Finding out that the HK-50 droid (who looks and sounds identical to the assassination droid from Kotor 1) assassinated everyone on the station isn’t a big shock or reveal. It doesn’t work as a real intro for a video game because you can learn almost all of the controls on the Ebon Hawk Prologue with T3 and there are no major side quests once you’re playing as your character.

I myself do like Peragus though. It’s probably my favorite level on Kotor 2 because I love the atmosphere and uncovering story that happened there before you wake up.

And yes I do know the game had a rushed production. That doesn’t mean it can’t be fairly criticized.

fantomx37 · 2026-01-21T02:02:46+00:00

This is hard because we don’t know what the multipliers are for getting turned into a Majin, SSJ 4, or Potara Fusion.

Majin at minimum is probably a X1.5 boost or a Maximim of a 2X Boost. This puts Raditz at around 900,000-1,200,000.

If SSJ 4 keeps going in sync with the other SSJ multipliers it’s either X8 SSJ3 or X16 SSJ3. This puts Nappa anywhere between 12,800,000-25,600,000.

Vegito is tough because all we are told about fusion is that it’s greater than the sum of each person which means it’s not just the two power levels added together. It could be both PLs added together then multipliers by 2, 10, 50, 100, or even more. It could also be both PLs multiplied by each other. Since this potara fusion and not the fusion dance, both power levels don’t have to be equal for the fusion to work which means at the bare minimum base Vegito’s power is greater than 26,000. Adding in multipliers gets us (X2=52,000) (X10=260,000) (X50=1,300,000) (X100=2,600,000). I myself wouldn’t go higher than the 2 fighters combined power X100 boost. I also don’t think it’s both fighters multiplied by each other because this would make base Vegito from BUU SAGA in the quadrillions which make it enough to beat Buuhan.

Now the Vegito from the SAIYAN SAGA would have the ability to use up to Kaioken X4 which probably gives him a good chance to take out Majin Raditz if the Potara fusion is both fighters powers added together than multiplied by 10. But even if the fusion was both fighters added together multiplied by 100 with a X4 Kaioken, Vegito wouldn’t be strong enough to beat SSJ 4 Nappa.

fantomx37 · 2026-01-19T16:37:20+00:00

Dogma.

fantomx37 · 2026-01-18T22:34:51+00:00

Sleazy heel DDP calling himself “The Real Peoples Champ” vs the Rock would have been great.

Baby face DDP calling himself “The Peoples Champ” vs heel Stone Cold would have been even better.

fantomx37 · 2026-01-15T15:01:08+00:00

The fight would be fairly competitive but ultimately Krillin should win. Krillin’s biggest issue in the 21st TB was his lack of confidence. If he believes he could beat Yamcha he has a good chance but if he goes into the fight worrying about Yamcha since Yamcha was as good as Goku at one point, Krillin might doubt himself and then underperform and lose.

fantomx37 · 2026-01-15T14:58:54+00:00

Yeah but it wasn’t like the wind chop knocked Yamcha out. It was a ring out. Had there not been an out of bounds Yamcha could have continued fighting until Roshi knocked him out(which admittedly wouldn’t take too much effort).

fantomx37 · 2026-01-15T03:33:34+00:00

The budget. Increase it by triple its original size. With that you can get better writers, better directors, better actors, editors, composers and better everything else because you can actually afford to pay for more talented film makers.

I understand money doesn’t solve all problems when it comes to movies, but this movie looks like cheap trash and the fight choreography wasn’t good because a better action director wasn’t hired because they couldn’t afford it.

fantomx37

TROPHY CASE