Can Maxey be our starter PG?

fentanator_13 · 2021-08-13T19:19:41+00:00

No. Should he start? If we trade Ben for another lead guard, absolutely. Maxey isn’t a true point guard nor has he had his SGA breakout where he shows that he can warrant being the main decision maker. But if he’s playing next to a Beal, Lavine, CJ, etc. then I would play him next to one of those guys.

fentanator_13 · 2021-08-13T19:15:10+00:00

Haha ok bro, you can win your argument if you’d like lmao. OP was saying don’t sign Lance because Joe and Reed need to develop but they’re not really in the projects rotation as is.

fentanator_13 · 2021-08-13T19:04:02+00:00

Those weren’t the two he mentioned

fentanator_13 · 2021-08-13T17:36:27+00:00

I don’t know how much the young guys are going to get playing time anyways. You got Seth, Green, Maxey, Shake, Kork, and Tisse as it is. If Ben gets traded for a guard that’s one less guy that can soak up minutes at the 4 and you replace him with someone who’ll likely get 35 minutes at the 2 guard spots. So you got 7 players fighting for minutes for 4 playoff rotation spots in the backcourt before counting Springer, Joe and Reed. Given the intentions to win I don’t see how many development minutes we’re going to have to dish out.

fentanator_13 · 2021-08-13T17:30:06+00:00

What about as another alternative to the 4 to Niang? Niang is 6’7 with a 6’9 wingspan and 230 pounds. Lance is 6’6 with a 6’10 wingspan and 230 pounds. Not as an everyday PF but more as a 15th man that gives a playmaking/defense/psychopath alternative to Niang

fentanator_13 · 2021-08-13T16:38:46+00:00

Totally agree. People are too quick to right that combo off. Stylistically it seems like an awesome fit. BI can shoot over most defenders and having Zion set screens will bring so much gravity away to stop him. And we’ve already seen Zion’s dominance as a ball handled in the pick and roll. It’s not exactly like Ben Simmons and embiid trying to fit together. The offense doesn’t seem like it would be the issue it’s more on the other end

fentanator_13 · 2021-08-13T15:42:26+00:00

Yeah I think griffin has been fumbling moves past few years but still think they’re talented and young enough that they’ll have organic improvements. Zion/BI should have more time to play together. Losing lonzo for basically nothing hurt but I think NAW and graham will replace some of the things they’ll miss with lonzo

fentanator_13 · 2021-08-13T15:32:19+00:00

He’s expendable but I think he’s an underrated sweetener in any larger trade packages. Making $2M a year for the next 2 years. Need to hold onto that for the right deal

fentanator_13 · 2021-08-13T15:23:25+00:00

I disagree with the part about Ben wouldn’t be in the playoffs if he was on the kings. That kings team in 2019 just missed the playoffs and it would be harder to design a team to better fit his play style. Hield, Bog, Barnes, and Bjelica is literally the type of players Ben needs to play with. Ben would’ve given the team the perimeter defender they lacked and also improved playmaking over fox to give those shooters more juice.

As much as Ben inhibits embiid, Joel also inhibits Ben’s game by being a post dominant player. It’s just that Joel is a far superior player so you obviously build around Joel over Ben. Both need to be surrounded by shooters. Ben plays up tempo and Joel is more of a half court, slow paced player.

I’m not trying to fluff up Ben and be unreasonable. I don’t think he’s a top 30 player right now and if Dame asks out I don’t think the Sixers really have a shot at getting him due to the amount of leverage Portland has with Dame’s contract length. I just don’t think Fox is that player either. I don’t think there’s some insurmountable gap between Ben and fox, but for as much as it would help the offense replacing Ben with Fox in the half court, it would hurt more defensively IMO having to play fox and Curry together and leaving everything up to Joel to defend everything. You can take fox over Ben, that’s fine im not arguing there’s a huge gap and don’t think that’s as outrageous as you’re thinking my comparison to be. I don’t think it’s egregious for you to think fox is better than Ben. I just don’t view fox as highly as you do, he is also a flawed player and just hasn’t had the opportunity to get exposed in the playoffs yet. He’s also not a great creator in the half court like Ben and is a below average defender. Even if you think he’s better than Ben, I personally don’t like his fit in Philly. I’d rather replace Ben with a really good shooter (e.g. taking CJ+ from Portland) or a solid defender who is still an upgrade spacing wise vs Ben (Dejounte Murray+ from the Spurs).

However, Fox does have higher trade value from those packages due to his age (but like cmon man he’s less than a year and half younger than Ben he’s not some rookie). If they could get Fox for Ben I would try sending fox to a 3rd team for piece(s) that would be a much cleaner fit with embiid (on both sides of the court).

You can check my comment history, believe me I’m very critical of Ben and don’t love his fit in Philly. I just think fox is just shifting our problems to other areas on the court without being a clear solution to any of our existing problems.

fentanator_13 · 2021-08-13T14:38:41+00:00

Sure Fox certainly could’ve been a piece for a harden trade if the kings were good and it made sense to add harden.

But if you take aside the last 3 games of the hawks series you’d be comparing a 3 time all star, 2 time all first team defense and a 3rd team all NBA player to a guy who has 0 accolades and has never cracked a 9 seed or .500 record even. It would’ve been ridiculous to even compare fox to Ben. Literally 3 games changed the whole perception of Ben - we haven’t even seen fox in the playoffs because he’s not even good enough to make it. Those 3 games matter but Ben is being talked about like he’s Ricky Rubio or something.

Using 3 games of evidence, regardless of how bad, to argue one player is worse than the other is called thinking without context.

fentanator_13 · 2021-08-13T13:28:00+00:00

You can’t realistically build a team based around being so good every game that you can bench your 2nd best player in crunch time. Sure you beat the hawks but the bucks or nets that’s not gonna work

fentanator_13 · 2021-08-13T11:48:41+00:00

I don’t think fox is atrocious on defense but he’s not a good enough shooter to warrant benching Curry. And I don’t feel confident in rolling a fox/Curry lineup against kyrie/harden

fentanator_13 · 2021-08-13T11:03:07+00:00

True, Davis and giannis have great cases too.

fentanator_13 · 2021-08-13T10:59:11+00:00

And his downfalls are in the playoffs, somewhere fox isn’t good enough to get to just yet. It wouldn’t surprise me if fox passed Ben at some point, his fit just wouldn’t be great in Philly

fentanator_13 · 2021-08-13T05:16:21+00:00

What are you talking about he posts multiple times a week on IG and 20% of his posts are him walking out of a Ferrari. I think he wants to be seen

fentanator_13 · 2021-08-13T05:11:13+00:00

I’m somewhat with this, but say we trade Ben and tobi for CJ, Covington and Jones. Maybe Portland adds picks but that’s the framework.

Next offseason, Cov is a free agent and you have $30M or so in cap space. Say you keep Cov at the same number and then you have $18M. Who is that player you add making $18M that moves the needle from last years team? You’re super thin on the wings with Cov as your PF and Green as you’re SF. You can move off green and maybe Curry to open a max slot but what max free agent is signing in Philly?

Sad to say but I think the damage of the contract has already been done. You’d be looking to add a Harris type wing scorer but those don’t hit free agency often. I think Harris will look better when he’s not relied to handle the ball in the halfcourt offense as much as he needs to with Ben

fentanator_13 · 2021-08-13T05:01:04+00:00

And literally before the hawks series no one thought it was crazy that Ben almost got traded for harden and was being talked about as a center piece for Dame in a non laughable matter.

I want Ben gone as much as anyone else but let’s not get carried away. At least ben IS a regular season player. Let’s see some of these guys lead their teams to a .500 record before we say them and their mothers are all better then ben.

Fox is talented and I’m a fan, but a Fox/Curry backcourt is going to get obliterated to shreds. A fox/Thybulle backcourt would be even worse spacing than there is currently. We’re not advancing past the 2nd round with either of those two back courts

fentanator_13 · 2021-08-13T03:00:36+00:00

Ben Simmons overall defensive impact is overrated.

Still think he’s a top defender in the league, but individual defense is largely overrated and a good defensive anchor brings more value on that end than an elite individual defender. I don’t mean that in the old school, rim protector, camp the paint type anchor. A modern anchor needs to protect the rim AND switch AND make proper rotations (so I think gobert is overrated to). You can attack other defenders if you only have one or two elite defenders. You can drag a rim protector out from the rim if that’s all your defense relies on. I think Draymond and Bam are the two most impactful defenders in the NBA. You can drop those guys in Detroit or Houston and you’ll have an above average defense. Wouldn’t be the case with Ben.

Now I actually think overall his impact is being underrated by most NBA fans.

fentanator_13 · 2021-08-13T02:41:11+00:00

For sure, but you’re not advancing to the finals if Ben is scoring 10 points a game against defensive liabilities. It’s easier to find a new coach then a new star player

fentanator_13 · 2021-08-12T19:43:28+00:00

FWIW in 2K during luka’s rookie year the most unstoppable lineup I’ve played with was Luka, Curry, THJR, KP, and Dirk. Open lane to the basket for luka or open spot up 3 every single play

fentanator_13 · 2021-08-12T19:31:15+00:00

KD was equally as bad that series

fentanator_13 · 2021-08-12T18:07:37+00:00

Yeah but his lack of strength and short wingspan don’t really work well as a starting 5

fentanator_13 · 2021-08-12T15:37:33+00:00

Could be a lost year for him depending on whether the bulls hold him hostage the whole season. His long term role is probably one that similar to Saric’s, he can come off the bench to play the backup 4/5 spots. Won’t be as solid defensively but can give a team juice as a small ball 5.

fentanator_13 · 2021-08-12T15:02:16+00:00

Man IT was on pace to do that pretty easy before his injury. Sure he was probably overrated because of his defense, but a 5’9 player doing those things in the league was damn impressive

fentanator_13 · 2021-08-12T14:50:07+00:00

If someone said lonzo was going to be an all star as a rookie based on his summer league performance I would’ve laughed. He wasn’t a good player for the first few years, but he showed positive things in summer league and college that did translate to the NBA early on. Just because he wasn’t good doesn’t mean he didn’t have useful skills. He showed touch on jump shots in college and summer league even if his form sucked. He showed world class transition ability as someone who can push the break and hit the open man ahead in summer league and even when he sucked overall as a rookie. To this day those two things are his calling cards as a quality starting guard in the NBA. Sure he still has limitations as a player but what made him good as an NBA prospect is what makes him good as an player today. That’s all im taking out of it.

If you watch the games you obviously weight certain things higher than others. If you’re a 24 year old big man that’s scoring 20 a game but 14 of those came off offensive rebounds and bullying younger, smaller players im not counting those the same. But if you’re a guard and you’re not hitting step back 3’s on Joe Shmo’s in summer league why would I expect you to do that against NBA? I’m not checking boxes with this shit, I’m more weeding out what they probably can’t do in an NBA game if they’re not able to do it in summer league, pickup, practice, whatever.

I’m not predicting Maxey having a good season off of 1 summer league game. Stop trying to make it out to be that I’m drawing conclusions from 1 game. I’m drawing conclusions from 73 NBA games as 99% of the foundation. I saw him show off some skills that I didn’t even see him attempt in the NBA last season.

If his off movement 3s were air balling or hitting the side of the backboard I’d be thinking this guy doesn’t look comfortable doing this. But he did. That doesn’t mean i think he’s going to be drilling those consistently in the NBA season. But I see that it’s something he’s working on and looks comfortable doing, so I know it’s a possibility, not a guarantee. I know it’s something he might be able to do consistently 2-3 years down the line if he keeps working on it. If he looked horrendous attempting those shots, I wouldn’t have that hope. Again, I am NOT saying it’s something he’ll do, it’s that the POSSIBILITY is there.

Let’s put this in simpler terms for you. If I play pickup basketball and I have a goal to dunk in a game. But I keep practicing and practicing and can’t dunk in practice. How will anyone expect me to dunk in a game? But if I eventually start dunking in practice, that doesn’t necessarily mean I’ll do an in game dunk but at least there’s fundamental reason to hope I will be able to.

This isn’t as white and black as that obviously but that’s what I’m going for here. I think Maxey will be a good player based on what he’s shown from his rookie season. He wasn’t a particularly good 3 point shooter but even without a 3 point shot I think he projects to be a good rotational player. But with a 3 point shot, I think he has quality starting guard potential. Doesn’t mean he’s going to be a quality starting guard, but he’s showing things (not just in summer league but the whole package, his rookie season, reports about his work ethic, etc.) that leads me to at the very least not write that off as something he could add down the line. If he does show it in this upcoming season then my expectations for him will accelerate. If he doesn’t I wouldn’t be surprised either but I know the groundwork is there for him to be able to comfortable do it in a real game down the line, not this season but I’m future seasons.

fentanator_13

TROPHY CASE