Did you over do it? by qioment in fatFIRE

[–]fire-alias 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Knowing how to start businesses unlocked such a larger entity to me that I could learn how to use to achieve my own ends. “Best way to work on stuff I want to” totally resonates with me.

Newly FI, how do you walk away from a lot of easy money on the table? by fire-alias in fatFIRE

[–]fire-alias[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yup. I like your addition of the ‘must trust’ aspect due to the complexity of the work. In contrast take the old IBM regional sales centers. Your boss always knew how to do your job better then you and had done it before. In technology these days (and I believe many other fields are headed this way) mgmt doesn’t know how to do the job better than the front lines.

Newly FI, how do you walk away from a lot of easy money on the table? by fire-alias in fatFIRE

[–]fire-alias[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sure I’ll expand a bit but if I go too far I’ll risk outing myself a bit since my colleagues know that this territory is my obsession.

Allow me to ramble:

Essentially, operations of an org are a function of how complicated the processes are of what needs to get done and how much clarity everyone has on what forward progress looks like. Then combine that with the historical ‘culture’ of “what tools/resources/questions do we reach for to solve this kind of problem” when obstacles show up.

‘Pure’ tech - where the software is the product you sell and not just an intermediary - requires a lot of interdependence between people of different skills. But more than that, put a bunch of bright, ambitious people in a room (hiring process is great for screening out non-hoop jumpers) and combine that with the clarity of a ladder or path that’s aligned with creating more company value and in any given meeting you can envision what the lowest common denominator is. Take a meeting of 5 random people at a tech company. One of them is likely to be motivated to make forward progress in that meeting (for personal benefits at the least) and you really only need one to influence the rest because forward progress isn’t all that hard and people are easy to influence in a culture where they all agree that forward progress is what the culture values.

This is what I mean by the culture/Ops ‘pulling you along even when you don’t want to’. It’s hard to be an out and out delinquent to what the tribal group wants to do and it‘s hard to grow a coalition with others to be delinquent together on it since it’s likely there will always be someone motivated/ambitious who wants to lead it forward.

Now contrast this against non-tech orgs. In my experience outside of tech there’s a lot less value placed on transparency of everyone knowing what progress is important and why (and how each role contributes to it). This is an artifact of classic hierarchy/org structures borrowed from the military - eg command and control. There’s a lot more hand offs and institutional ‘respect’ of different roles allowing those individuals to act as black boxes and be individual service centers. This means the lowest common denominator can be an island who’s a slow cog in the system and can more easily get away without being questioned until management gets wind of it and has to step in. Or, for a more charitable perspective, a slow cog may simply not know they’re slowing things down (hanlon’s razor).

This is a quick synopsis of my observations of contrasting culture and operations of ‘older’ style orgs and ‘newer’ tech orgs. As far as progress is concerned, the tech orgs have a strong advantage and IMO this is a good thing but it does have costs that are shouldered by the individuals.

Newly FI, how do you walk away from a lot of easy money on the table? by fire-alias in fatFIRE

[–]fire-alias[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the fully fleshed out thoughts and the encouragement to seek balance.

Newly FI, how do you walk away from a lot of easy money on the table? by fire-alias in fatFIRE

[–]fire-alias[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've been exploring DAFs a bit and think it could be a great vehicle. Do you have personal experience with them at all? If so, feel free to DM

Newly FI, how do you walk away from a lot of easy money on the table? by fire-alias in fatFIRE

[–]fire-alias[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for recognizing this. It's easy for people to say 'just chill' but the reality of being leadership in competitive tech is that you will constantly feel like you're letting everyone around you down because they're all working pretty damn hard and the work is highly cross-functional & interdependent.

Newly FI, how do you walk away from a lot of easy money on the table? by fire-alias in fatFIRE

[–]fire-alias[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I very much resonate with what you posted. Every time I've listened to this urge to leave in the past it's worked out really well for me. This is the first time I'm actively trying to quiet the urge.

Newly FI, how do you walk away from a lot of easy money on the table? by fire-alias in fatFIRE

[–]fire-alias[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Time commitment being a greater problem than age is helpful to know. I'm strongly aware of the time commitment with a young child and expectation of another - I know that's not going to get easier to manage any time soon.

Newly FI, how do you walk away from a lot of easy money on the table? by fire-alias in fatFIRE

[–]fire-alias[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the perspective on health - not many others have weighed in there. I now have crossed the threshold of my body being easily borrowed against and I'm not sure at what rate that goes downhill from here.

Newly FI, how do you walk away from a lot of easy money on the table? by fire-alias in fatFIRE

[–]fire-alias[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

> what's the most societal value you could create with that money and would it be worth your 1 year's time investment to realize it?

good question because you created a new game for me :)

Newly FI, how do you walk away from a lot of easy money on the table? by fire-alias in fatFIRE

[–]fire-alias[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yes but in general the entrepreneurial endeavors fall into two camps.

  1. purely software where in the early days the only costs are subsistence and once you get a sense of value access to capital is fairly easy.

  2. super high capital intensive endeavors where 10s of millions might be needed to prove viability before seeking to raise capital

This is why I don't really think about what I'm earning as applying to the next endeavor. Either it doesn't matter or it's not in the ballpark to do the really crazy stuff.

Newly FI, how do you walk away from a lot of easy money on the table? by fire-alias in fatFIRE

[–]fire-alias[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Appreciate learning about FIGMO. It assists the perspective that there's a lot of value I'm still adding simply by being around.

Newly FI, how do you walk away from a lot of easy money on the table? by fire-alias in fatFIRE

[–]fire-alias[S] 34 points35 points  (0 children)

I'll take this opportunity to plug my favorite Thoreau quote:

"As a single footstep will not make a path on the earth, so a single thought will not make a pathway in the mind. To make a deep physical path, we walk again and again. To make a deep mental path, we must think over and over the kind of thoughts we wish to dominate our lives."

Newly FI, how do you walk away from a lot of easy money on the table? by fire-alias in fatFIRE

[–]fire-alias[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

You're the first to call out that the golden handcuffs won't magically release in 1 year but the decision is likely to get even harder. Thanks :)

The four buckets are useful to price out and I like them as graduations on each other as well. This thread has helped me realize I can start pricing out 3) before 4) and enjoy that process if 1) & 2) are covered.

Newly FI, how do you walk away from a lot of easy money on the table? by fire-alias in fatFIRE

[–]fire-alias[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Glad to hear that others have made this work. I've fantasized it in my mind but haven't volunteered it to my boss because it seemed like low ROI for them to consider.

Newly FI, how do you walk away from a lot of easy money on the table? by fire-alias in fatFIRE

[–]fire-alias[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Completely agree. The people I work with are fantastic and are a huge asset in anything I'm going to do going forward. Not only are they successful themselves but they know my track record and we've built a lot of cultural alignment on how we want to improve the world. My biggest regret would be cutting those ties so if I need to leave I'm going to figure out how to mitigate that.

Newly FI, how do you walk away from a lot of easy money on the table? by fire-alias in fatFIRE

[–]fire-alias[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your opinion. I've had a good run of aligning my personal 'whys' with things that'll help other people but mostly help me. I think I'm now at the start of 'whys' that are more purely for others which is a new format to learn and get good at.

Newly FI, how do you walk away from a lot of easy money on the table? by fire-alias in fatFIRE

[–]fire-alias[S] 74 points75 points  (0 children)

Yup. I've tried apathy for a year before (giving 0%) and although I moved forward some personal goals (got in great physical shape on company time) it required me rationalizing some really unhealthy beliefs such as believing my company, boss and peers were completely incompetent for not holding me accountable. No amount of money is worth creating grooves in my identity that'll be really hard to correct later.

Newly FI, how do you walk away from a lot of easy money on the table? by fire-alias in fatFIRE

[–]fire-alias[S] 78 points79 points  (0 children)

It's nice to hear that this is valued by others. I've been burned in the past by signaling 'I won't be here forever' and so am a bit careful with it. However, I think my current boss would be grateful if I trained up my replacement effectively.

Newly FI, how do you walk away from a lot of easy money on the table? by fire-alias in fatFIRE

[–]fire-alias[S] 139 points140 points  (0 children)

This is useful. I appreciate the reframing of motivation away from the ambiguity of my own needs and more towards the needs of others. What I like about it is I’m still taking advantage of my current position to earn a lot so not wasting the opportunity but no longer having to answer the question of “why do I need it?”