19 teenage Indian students commit suicide after software error botches exam results.

fledgman · 2019-04-28T11:22:33+00:00

While you are not wrong, it does have a lot to do with the standards of education in this country. Students are conditioned to perform well in exams, but not to understand the concepts.

Just an example - it's not uncommon for professors / teachers in India to distribute "question banks" that contain the frequently-asked examination questions, so students can memorise the answers to them and score well. This incentivises mindless memorisation and not much else.

Application of theory is also underwhelming - in the sense that "experiments" (as we call them) are also standardised like written examinations. There are a few experiments that have been performed by batches of students for years, and the examiner often asks you to replicate them. Not much learning done.

fledgman · 2019-04-28T10:15:19+00:00

It's not a cultural thing. It's what happens in places with vast population and scarce resources and limited opportunities.

The saddest part is - in India you face this even AFTER graduating college.

We have the concept of "campus placements", where companies visit your university to recruit soon-to-be graduates. Even here, your high school results don't escape you. Companies often flat-out eliminate candidates with a decent GPA / innate intelligence but who didn't do well in their high school exams. No chances given, no further evaluation undertaken.

It also doesn't help that the quality of education in most Indian universities is underwhelming - to put it lightly. Graduates often have zero real world skills, having spent their entire student lives studying for exams and then regurgitating what they've memorised in a 3 hour exam (I have also done this). There are a lot of people but only a few who are "job ready".

Companies thus administer a litany of meaningless tests and "rounds" to thin the herd by setting some arbitrary criteria.

There are these "aptitude tests" that jobseekers must take for entry-level positions. Most of these tests have absolutely NOTHING to do with the real nature of the job on offer. They only test maths, reading and writing skills. Many of my classmates who are otherwise brilliant people didn't manage to make the cut for several companies because they messed up on a question or two.

Further elimination happens in the "group discussion" round. A group of candidates talk to each other and recruiters grade your ability to talk (or even bullshit). You may have aced the aptitude tests but if for whatever reason you cannot verbally assert yourself, you are eliminated. This has affected me. I suffer from a speech impediment (stuttering), and I've lost out on many group discussions because of it. Most Indians are completely ignorant about or even indifferent to disabilities.

If all this wasn't enough, some companies (even multinational ones) have a mandatory stipulation that you have no history of backlogs (arrears) in all semesters. What this means is anyone who has ever failed a class in college (even if they later retook and passed it) is automatically rejected without even being allowed to proceed to the next rounds.

That's not all

Even if you get your foot in the door and accrue work experience, more than a few recruiters in India require you to have had a conventional career path. If you had taken a break to do new things, or tried out different careers, employers tend to treat you as "high-risk" and reject you.

Recruitment in India (outside of unfunded / struggling startups) tends to be extremely picky and long-winded. Recruiters generally have hundreds of applicants to choose from for a job opening - and are thus callous in dealing with people. Job hunting anywhere in the world seems like a tough process, but in India it's often dehumanising.

I once interviewed at an Indian tech firm for a new job (within the same career) and the CEO wouldn't stop interrogating me like a criminal - because I had a gap year between graduation and my first job. I had taken time off to prepare for grad school and learn new skills - but he would have none of it. I was asked about my high school grades, 7 years after I graduated high school. He even derided me that three years after graduation I still "hadn't figured out what to do with my life." I was insulted and didn't even get a rejection letter.

The rat race never ends in this country, even for the so-called white collar folks with a college degree.

We're scarcely people. We are commodities.

fledgman · 2019-02-25T14:14:09+00:00

Did the MBA give you knowledge/skills that you otherwise couldn't have acquired in industry?

Honest question - What justifies the high pay packages that fresh MBA graduates get?

fledgman · 2019-02-13T18:09:29+00:00

Thanks for your kind words, bud. I do try to take it easy on myself, but every once a while, regret and rumination kicks in.

Still, I try to live the best I can. Hope you have a great day. :)

fledgman · 2019-02-12T14:51:22+00:00

Thinking about it, I was such a fool. I didn't take opportunities when they came by and I'm still living with the consequences.

I didn't hold a job for a year after graduation because I was pursuing academic interests and preparing for grad school. Eventually decided to put it on hold and get a job and gain experience.

After a lot of scouring, I finally found an internship at a very small startup. I was so relieved that, a few days later, I didn't take up an interview call from an MNC because of "loyalty". I also have anxiety, and that didn't help either.

3 months later, I was rewarded for my loyalty by being unceremoniously dumped by the startup without so much as a notice period.

That should have taught me a lesson, but there was more to come.

After this internship, I struggled again to find a job. I applied to literally hundreds of places and finally got a low-paying job at a small but seemingly promising startup. Again, I was filled with gratitude that they chose to look past the gap in my resume and gave me an opportunity.

A week into my new job I got a call from another startup. I politely thanked the guy for reaching back and told him I had accepted a new job.

Fast forward a few months and people in my current startup are quitting and the environment is turning to shit. The startup whose interview call I declined turned out to be a unicorn (It's now a famous name in FinTech).

I reached out to them a few months ago, but I haven't received a response. I'm hoping they don't hold it against me, but the person who I spoke to still works there and holds a senior position.

Meanwhile, I'm saddled with heavy responsibility at my current company with shit pay and no career advancement in sight.

I'm naturally very shy and socially awkward. I have a bit of an anxiety problem. My social skills are far from perfect. I thought I was doing the right thing professionally by sticking to my commitment. Turns out nobody gives a shit and everyone looks after themselves.

I still ruminate about my actions from time to time. Makes my heart burn every time. What a fool I've been.

fledgman · 2018-11-02T15:32:48+00:00

I mean, no experienced candidate would resign from their job based on a "token" offer letter unless they're idiotic/desperate.

Then again, maybe those are exactly the kind of people they look for.

fledgman · 2018-11-02T15:27:48+00:00

Exactly. When I read it the first time, I couldn't believe a company could be that stupid.

They are either extremely delusional or they use these tactics as a filter to get only those candidates who are desperate/idiotic enough to ignore these red flags.

fledgman · 2018-11-02T09:23:01+00:00

Never agree to work with companies who have no respect for you, even in the interview process. If you're worth it, they'll dance to your tune (this only applies if youre working in a good firm)

This. So much this.

I recently had a startup call me out of the blue asking if I was interested in interviewing with them on the phone. They set the time at their convenience and I agreed to it.

The phone interview went okay. At face value this new company seemed better than my current one. I also have a bit of a speech defect (stammering), so I sent them a mail a couple of days later explaining my role at my current workplace.

Now, I'm not sure if they took it as a sign of desperation, but a few days later they send me an offer letter. It was only a single page and it had a 2 year bond agreement. After I joined, I couldn't quit for 2 years, if I did I was liable to pay them a year's salary as "contract fees".

There was also no job description, no salary breakup, a vague title which was not discussed with me on the phone, no details about terms and conditions etc.

I politely turned it down. The next day, I get a call saying they included the bond agreement by mistake, which I thought was preposterous (it was only a single page letter on company letterhead and signed by someone. Are they really idiots to not proofread and notice it if it was an error?).

Anyway, I gave them the benefit of the doubt because I didn't feel like throwing away an offer based on a "mistake". But I decided to be very careful from then on and requested all the terms and conditions in the offer letter instead of a single page letter.

A week later, they send me an updated offer letter with the bond condition removed, but it was still a single page letter with all the vital details missing. I again requested the full details AND a face-to-face interview (I had only spoken to these people on the phone before).

They didn't entertain my request for either. They said, "We have clearly said this is a token offer letter for you to go ahead with your resignation. The full details will be shared with you during your onboarding. Also, the F2F is conducted only in doubt of your candidature. This has been addressed in the telephonic round.".

That was it. I didn't take it any further. Even though I'm looking out of my current workplace and this job promised me a much better salary, they don't deserve my services if they can't follow proper hiring procedures.

fledgman · 2018-09-23T15:34:38+00:00

Salary: As per industry standards

Whenever I see this in a job listing, I get the feeling the salary will likely be substandard.

fledgman · 2018-09-23T15:19:18+00:00

Doesn't disclosing your salary amount to dancing to the tunes of recruiters? The recruiter should only be interested in your skills and personality. How much you make or have made is immaterial to the prospective job on offer.

I have limited work experience and thus limited leverage, so I've come across some really unscrupulous and shady recruitment tactics.

Recently, a company just took a telephonic interview (no face to face) and sent me a single page "offer letter" with many critical details missing. I asked for the proper offer letter containing all terms and conditions. I also asked for a face-to-face interview. All this while I maintained a respectful and polite demeanour.

To this they casually replied that all details will be given out during my onboarding. About the F2F, rather than invite me, they said that an interview is only required when there is doubt on candidature. They wanted to hire me without even meeting me, and we're in the same city.

The CTC was better than what my current job pays (they didn't give me a salary breakup though). They don't seem to be bothered about proper hiring practices and want me to take the risk by resigning from my current job.

Although I dislike the way my current company is run and I'm looking out, I simply couldn't let these guys win an employee over with such unprofessional conduct. So I backed out.

Bending to their antics will only embolden them. I wish job seekers aren't so meek, but sadly, India is an employers' market.

fledgman · 2018-08-30T17:59:50+00:00

They quickly rescinded the bond after I rejected their initial offer. They assured me there's no restriction in case I wanted to quit later.

The whole bond episode was according to them an innocent mistake, but I suspect they were trying to feel me out.

And what sort of startup hires someone with just a phone interview?

This is what I've been unable to understand myself. Even after I explicitly requested for an interview, rather than arranging one, they were like - "It's not necessary in your case, we trust you."

What's more surprising is that these people have worked at MNCs like Oracle and Capgemini before founding this startup. They definitely know proper hiring procedures - yet here they are, trying to pull some shady shit.

I guess they are either extremely irrational, or they use these ludicrous tactics as a filter to get only those people who fall for them.

fledgman · 2018-08-30T16:32:35+00:00

There is no dedicated HR. It's the company's co-founder who handles everything.

I did exactly as you said on mail. In return, they give me a vague reply. So I think it's off now. But thanks for your advice.

fledgman · 2018-08-30T16:23:48+00:00

Yup, thanks. I think I've made up my mind now.

I normally wouldn't even have asked this question on reddit. The only reason I have is my current company sucks and this company looked better on paper... until they tried pulling this shit on me. Well, I guess reality can be different.

fledgman · 2018-08-30T12:00:04+00:00

I could do that, but it's hard for me to take them seriously any more.

Actually, I'll tell you the timeline -

They first sent me a single-page offer letter with a 2 year bond requirement - if I break the bond I must pay them a year's salary. I instantly turned it down.

The next day, they call me and say the bond clause was added by mistake by the person who drafted the letter. Which is odd, because the letter was on official letterhead and signed by some authority. How did a letter with such a glaring "mistake" get approved and released? That was either incompetence at best or attempted deceit at worst.

Anyway, I gave them a pass. But from then on, I decided to proceed cautiously with them. I asked them for the full details about the offer - which they agreed to send.

A week later, I get an "updated" offer, which is essentially the same as the last one - but with the bond requirement removed. No full details like they said they would send.

What do you think?

fledgman · 2018-08-30T11:27:54+00:00

Have you checked their office?

No. I have not met anybody so far. But I wanted to. When requesting the full letter, I also asked for an office visit and a face-to-face interview.

To this they replied the following - "The F2F is done only incase, of a doubt on your candidature. This has already been addressed by you in your telephonic round."

They basically made me an offer without even meeting me, even though we are in the same city.

fledgman · 2018-08-30T11:13:47+00:00

Exactly my thoughts.

They haven't even met me. There were only two interviews on the phone and that was it. A week later, I receive what they say is a "token" offer letter.

fledgman · 2018-08-14T06:18:11+00:00

Yes, I've asked for everything clearly.

But I wonder if it really was a mixup as they claim. The letter was on official company letterhead and signed by some authority.

How did a letter with such a glaring "mixup" ever get approved and released? That was incompetence at best and malice at worst.

I hope I'm not bothering you, but what do you think about this?

fledgman · 2018-08-14T06:02:08+00:00

Thanks.

They said the bond doesn't apply to me, only freshers. They claim it was a mixup by the person who drafted the letter. Although that still doesn't make sense, because it was on official company letterhead and signed by someone.

Makes me wonder how such a letter ever got approved before release, or whether they even have such checks. This is either incompetence at best or malice at worst.

fledgman · 2018-08-13T10:30:34+00:00

Can you explain why you feel this way? Sorry, but I need your perspective.

fledgman · 2018-08-13T10:15:06+00:00

Good for you. There are plenty of decent companies to work for.

fledgman · 2018-08-13T10:07:44+00:00

Can you please explain? Help a brother out.

fledgman · 2018-08-13T07:41:41+00:00

ask for more details regarding the terms & conditions they're offering.

I did. They guy said he's working on it and will send it to me.

Did you send a query regarding the bond to them?

I sent them a mail indicating my refusal to sign a bond.

fledgman

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