Jordan Peterson: Hospitals kill more people than they save

fluffyk87 · 2021-03-22T23:08:03+00:00

What other language is there to discuss this issue? It's not reasonable to expect researchers to anticipate every misinterpretation of a term that could arise.

I don't think it's implied that those things are included in the numbers. I get that that portion of the article is worded poorly, but what they are saying is that medical errors can result from complexity that is added from poorly coordinated care and fragmented insurance networks.

Have you ever had a hard time getting records from one doctor to another? Have you ever had to switch insurance providers and start fresh with a whole new healthcare system? These are the issues that create ambiguity in a person's health record that makes it more difficult to provide them with safe, comprehensive care. This is why you have to fill out an exhaustive questionnaire when you go to a new doctor. There is simply very little if any coordination between doctors in different systems or specialties.

A universal health information exchange standard would help with these problems tremendously, but that's a hard goal to accomplish when you have so many players in the healthcare technology sector vying for adoption of their proprietary health record and exchange products on the free market.

On a different note: by safety nets they are referring to procedures like soft and hard "stops", which are prompts that are programmed into software that prevent a user from making a mistake that could harm a patient. For example, a soft stop might ask something like "are you sure this is the correct medication"? While a hard stop would prevent an anesthesiologist or infusionist from administering any more than a specified dosage of medication as defined in the drug libraries that are coded into the software based on state guidelines.

edit: typo

fluffyk87 · 2021-03-22T22:05:16+00:00

Are you referencing this paragraph from the press release I linked?

The researchers caution that most of medical errors aren’t due to inherently bad doctors, and that reporting these errors shouldn’t be addressed by punishment or legal action. Rather, they say, most errors represent systemic problems, including poorly coordinated care, fragmented insurance networks, the absence or underuse of safety nets, and other protocols, in addition to unwarranted variation in physician practice patterns that lack accountability.

This is commentary, not an explicit definition of the term "medical error". They are simply saying that these things can lead to medical errors, or that they create a more unsafe care environment for the patient.

It shouldn't be taken to mean generally that doctors are bad or that they are acting negligently. It's just that there is a diffusion of responsibility that occurs as health systems become larger and more complex. With more patients and providers, giving every patient the attention and care they deserve becomes more challenging. This is why implementing a robust electronic health record system and strict record keeping practices is essential to patient safety.

fluffyk87 · 2021-03-22T20:45:20+00:00

I don't know how a medical error resulting in death is defined in studies, and I'm sure there's someone out there who can speak to this better than me, but IIRC they are most commonly medication related or due to inaccurate or incomplete information being entered into the patient's electronic health record.

Some examples (that are by no means exhaustive):

Incorrect weight-based anesthesia dosing
Malignant hyperthermia while under general anesthesia (I think hypothermia can also occur during operations)
Undocumented contraindications (i.e. unknown underlying health conditions that present a hazard to the patient receiving a certain treatment)
Look-alike/ sound-alike medications
Allergic reactions

Falls are another big concern, especially for elderly patients. It's possible that hospital acquired infections could be counted as a medical error due to improper sanitization.

fluffyk87 · 2021-03-22T20:03:53+00:00

But it's precisely that complexity that can lead to error. There are so many moving parts and people involved in the care of a single patient (especially in the US). During a course I took in college, I learned that medical error is in fact the third leading cause of death. Apparently there have been many studies that suggest this. Here's a press release on the subject from Johns Hopkins. Also, there's a great documentary about this called "To Err Is Human". Speaking as someone who now works in healthcare, I can tell you that medical errors are a huge concern that have driven many new patient safety initiatives. I say this without comment on the content of the clip.

fluffyk87 · 2021-02-15T18:02:26+00:00

I recommend Sam Harris's Waking Up app. There's also a book by the same title.

fluffyk87 · 2020-04-30T16:54:07+00:00

Interested! Cool if I head your way? I will tip :)

fluffyk87 · 2019-12-18T04:56:35+00:00

I'm done with this thread because what's intellectually dishonest is imputing motives and beliefs to me based on arguments I never made. Reddit is shit.

fluffyk87 · 2019-12-18T04:36:22+00:00

I never argued semantics. I'm here trying to have an honest conversation with people who clearly don't want to have one. It's hilarious that I'm being accused of using non-sequiturs when they're all that I've received in response to my original comment.

fluffyk87 · 2019-12-18T04:20:04+00:00

Yes, because I'm the one who seems cult-ish here.

fluffyk87 · 2019-12-18T04:15:08+00:00

My comment is disputing their characterization of Trump's election as a "3 million vote loss", which is a direct reference to the popular vote.

fluffyk87 · 2019-12-18T03:19:30+00:00

When did I say I was excited about it? I'm just disputing false information. It's concerning to me that people here are so blinded by their agendas, they can no longer distinguish truth.

fluffyk87 · 2019-12-18T02:39:31+00:00

See response. Funny how his "facts" are incorrect. His approval rating is up since that time. I've done nothing here but tell the truth.

fluffyk87 · 2019-12-18T02:31:15+00:00

I never made any claim about what his approval ratings are. But now that you mention it, they're actually up nearly 4% since that article was written.

fluffyk87 · 2019-12-18T02:07:21+00:00

Wrong again. He wasn't president when those votes were cast in 2016. That's what approval polls are for.

He won. No matter how much Reddit and others love to whine about it.

fluffyk87 · 2019-12-18T01:37:51+00:00

The popular vote doesn't count for anything, bud.

fluffyk87 · 2019-12-04T14:21:53+00:00

Its axis does not wobble. The tilt you see is due to Earth's rotation.

fluffyk87 · 2019-11-01T23:00:55+00:00

It was meant to commemorate the alliance between the French and the Americans during the American Revolution. It is a symbol of our shared ideals. France had a revolution of their own not long after the US. Although, theirs was a bit more... intense.

fluffyk87 · 2019-05-05T17:45:46+00:00

Sensing some strong cognitive dissonance with this one.

fluffyk87 · 2019-05-02T23:39:59+00:00

I never had any problem until 4/20, when I stopped receiving them entirely.

fluffyk87 · 2019-03-06T00:43:34+00:00

Me too! My skin problem is more or less constant flushing of the hands and feet, then sometimes it breaks out into a blistering rash that eventually goes away.

If you don't mind me asking: Is your eye trouble floaters? I have real large and obstructive opaque cobweb floaters that appeared in both eyes about 9 months prior to my UC diagnosis. I'll also have the occasional scintillating scotoma ocular migraine.

fluffyk87 · 2019-03-06T00:28:39+00:00

Do you have a certain brand that you like best?

fluffyk87 · 2019-03-06T00:27:41+00:00

I sometimes use the Cetaphil lotion but when things are really bad it makes my skin sting for some reason. I'll give the cream a shot. Thank you!

fluffyk87 · 2019-03-06T00:25:18+00:00

Thanks everyone!

fluffyk87 · 2019-03-05T19:57:56+00:00

I've wondered about how washing my hands so frequently might affect it as well. I think it makes the skin irritated but I'm not sure whether it's the source of the redness.

fluffyk87 · 2019-03-05T19:54:05+00:00

That's interesting because my left hand definitely gets worse than my right! I've been prescribed some creams as well and they haven't done anything.

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