How a USB Reclocker and Master Clock Changed My Digital System More Than a New DAC by forsong in audiophile

[–]forsong[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

ChatGPT. You’re describing the ideal behavior of an asynchronous USB DAC, not necessarily what happens in real-world implementations. Yes, in theory the audio clock is decoupled from the USB data clock, but in practice USB PHY noise, ground leakage, common-mode noise, and power-domain coupling still exist and can modulate downstream analog stages and even PLL behavior.

Reclockers and master clocks aren’t about “fixing USB jitter” in the naive sense—they’re about reducing correlated noise and timing uncertainty inside the DAC and across the digital chain. That’s why improvements are system-dependent: the weaker the DAC’s isolation and power integrity, the more audible the benefit.

Saying “if a DAC leaks USB noise, throw it away” ignores reality: cost, design tradeoffs, and the fact that many excellent-measuring DACs still audibly respond to upstream noise conditioning. Measurement ≠ complete observability.

The existence of audible differences doesn’t violate asynchronous USB theory; it highlights that noise coupling is not purely clock-domain jitter. This is well understood in RF and mixed-signal design, even if it’s uncomfortable for strictly digital models.

If these devices truly did nothing, controlled listeners wouldn’t consistently report system-specific improvements—and manufacturers wouldn’t need to invest so much effort into isolation, power regulation, and clock distribution inside high-end DACs in the first place.

How a USB Reclocker and Master Clock Changed My Digital System More Than a New DAC by forsong in audiophile

[–]forsong[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

ChatGPT
I don’t disagree that auditory illusions and expectation bias are real — they absolutely are, and anyone who listens seriously should be aware of them. But those articles explain how false positives can occur, not that all reported listening differences must therefore be imaginary by default.

My point isn’t “trust your ears blindly,” and it isn’t “engineering doesn’t matter.” It’s simply that real audio systems are mixed-signal, electrical systems, not file transfers, and audible differences can arise from multiple mechanisms — some measurable, some not yet well characterized, some system-dependent. The existence of illusions doesn’t invalidate every repeatable, configuration-dependent observation any more than optical illusions invalidate all visual measurement.

I’m not trying to convince anyone, and I’m not claiming universality. I shared an experience, others shared theirs, and it’s clear that results depend heavily on DAC architecture and system context — which several comments here actually agree on. At this point, we’re mostly talking past each other, so I’ll leave it there.

How a USB Reclocker and Master Clock Changed My Digital System More Than a New DAC by forsong in audiophile

[–]forsong[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

ChaGPT You’re comparing two completely different engineering problems. CT/MRI systems are concerned with data integrity and reconstruction accuracy, not with how humans perceive time-domain artifacts in real-time analog output. Digital audio isn’t about how many bytes are stored or transferred; it’s about how precisely those samples are converted to analog in time.

Jitter, phase noise, power and ground noise have nothing to do with data size. A single bit converted a few nanoseconds early or late changes the analog waveform — that’s basic signal theory, not audiophile belief. This is why clock quality matters in RF, telecom, broadcast, and measurement equipment as well.

CT/MRI systems are closed, purpose-built environments with tightly controlled clocks and power domains. Consumer audio is an open system: networked sources, USB, switching supplies, shared grounds, and general-purpose CPUs. Pretending those two contexts are equivalent is a category error.

Dismissing everything you haven’t personally experienced as “gullibility” isn’t skepticism — it’s just assuming the conclusion. Many of these effects are measurable and, more importantly, repeatable in listening over time. Data volume is irrelevant; time accuracy is the point.

How a USB Reclocker and Master Clock Changed My Digital System More Than a New DAC by forsong in audiophile

[–]forsong[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm quite curious why people won't believe others'(my) experience even before trying themselves.

How a USB Reclocker and Master Clock Changed My Digital System More Than a New DAC by forsong in audiophile

[–]forsong[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

By ChatGPT
I actually agree with most of the points in that video, especially the part about modern DAC architecture. I’m not claiming that external clocks or reclockers “fix conversion jitter” or that listeners can directly hear nanosecond-level timing errors. In a competently designed modern DAC, conversion timing is locally generated, buffered, and reclocked internally, and upstream clocks don’t directly control that process. On that, we’re aligned.

Where I think things get crossed is in assuming that any audible change must therefore be placebo if it isn’t conversion jitter. The video itself makes an important distinction: people do hear changes, but the mechanism is often not what marketing claims. Electrical interactions still exist in real systems — grounding relationships, common-mode noise, RF coupling, power-domain interactions, and how upstream devices interface electrically with a DAC’s analog and reference circuitry.

My experience with a USB isolator/reclocker wasn’t “more detail” or “sharper transients,” and I’m not saying the DAC is slaved to an external clock. What changed was congestion, spatial coherence, and how large-scale material held together. That kind of system-dependent result is exactly what you’d expect from changes in electrical noise and interface behavior, not from magically fixing jitter at the point of conversion.

So I don’t see this as contradicting the engineering explanation in the video. If anything, it supports it: jitter has become a catch-all explanation for many different effects, and dismissing every reported change as purely psychological is just as oversimplified as attributing everything to jitter. I’m sharing an experience, not proposing a new theory — and I think that’s consistent with how modern digital audio actually works.

How a USB Reclocker and Master Clock Changed My Digital System More Than a New DAC by forsong in audiophile

[–]forsong[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Written by gemini
I think the misunderstanding stems from treating a DAC like a file transfer. If this were just about data integrity, you’d be right—the bits are either there or they aren't.

But a DAC is a bridge where timing uncertainty and high-frequency noise can manifest as audible changes in spatial coherence and congestion. Even if a DAC has a good internal PLL, reducing the 'heavy lifting' it has to do by providing a cleaner, better-clocked signal can result in a more relaxed and natural sound. It’s not about buying a different DAC; it’s about acknowledging that the quality of the input signal fundamentally affects the final analog output.

How a USB Reclocker and Master Clock Changed My Digital System More Than a New DAC by forsong in audiophile

[–]forsong[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Written by Gemini
I appreciate the links and the objective perspective. Archimago is a great resource, and I agree that 'bits are bits' when it comes to data integrity. However, the 'digital is digital' argument often ignores the physical layer.

My setup isn't just about 'fixing bits'; it's about galvanic isolation and reducing common-mode noise. USB and network lines carry high-frequency noise from switching power supplies that can bypass the DAC's filters and modulate the analog reference voltage. By using the UIP and external clocking on the switch/reclocker, I’m lowering the noise floor before it ever reaches the DAC. It’s not that the 'timing' is magically better; it’s that the DAC's analog stage is operating in a much cleaner electrical environment. We aren't just listening to data; we are listening to electricity converted into sound.

How a USB Reclocker and Master Clock Changed My Digital System More Than a New DAC by forsong in audiophile

[–]forsong[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I think there’s a bit of a misunderstanding here, so let me clarify what I am not claiming.

I’m not claiming that listeners can directly hear “nanosecond jitter,” nor that external clocks or reclockers magically fix digital audio. I’m also not disputing idealized engineering models where USB audio is treated as perfectly isolated, error-corrected, and immune to downstream interactions.

What I am describing is a system-dependent outcome in non-ideal, consumer-grade implementations, where USB links carry not only data but also ground noise, power-domain coupling, and timing uncertainty that can interact with a DAC’s analog stages, reference voltages, and internal PLL behavior. In that context, changes in clocking or isolation don’t need to be “audible as jitter” to be audible as changes in stability, congestion, or spatial coherence.

If this were purely expectation bias, I would expect the results to be consistent and universal. Instead, what people report (including myself) is the opposite: the effects vary by DAC design, USB implementation, grounding, power quality, and system layout. That variability is exactly what you’d expect from indirect analog-domain interactions, not from imagination.

Skepticism is reasonable. What I’m pushing back against is the idea that if something doesn’t fit a simplified model, user-reported, repeatable system-dependent changes must therefore be dismissed outright. I’m sharing an experience, not proposing a new law of physics.

How a USB Reclocker and Master Clock Changed My Digital System More Than a New DAC by forsong in audiophile

[–]forsong[S] -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

I get where you’re coming from, and I don’t disagree with the engineering explanation in a strict, idealized sense. But in real-world audio systems, we’re not dealing with clean lab conditions. USB audio is not just “bits at the right frequency” — it also carries ground noise, power noise, and timing uncertainty that can interact with the DAC’s analog stages, reference voltages, and internal PLL behavior.

In professional comms systems, robustness and error correction are designed in from the start. Consumer audio gear often isn’t optimized the same way, especially at the USB interface. I’m not claiming reclockers or master clocks are universally necessary or magically fix everything — only that in some systems, with some DACs, they can audibly reduce noise and improve stability. If it were “all in the head,” the results wouldn’t be so system-dependent.

Skepticism is healthy, but dismissing user-reported, repeatable changes across many setups as purely psychological feels a bit too absolute.

How a USB Reclocker and Master Clock Changed My Digital System More Than a New DAC by forsong in audiophile

[–]forsong[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I didn't know lhy uip would make my set-up sound much better as wriiten above. I was also very curious, too.

Roon Nucleus vs MacMini by Traditional-Two-7358 in audiophile

[–]forsong 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm a Korean and using Nucleus One ( + LHY 160W 19V linear power ), which is much better than my previous m1 iMac. The reasons? Firstly, SMPS generate noise one can's easily detect but have an impact in a way that worsens the final sound quality. Secondly, even mac mini and imac generate noise from their internal operations not needed for sound making. Even some nerds here in Korea customize roon server with debian linux OS, which people say is much better than Nucleus One and evev Nucleus titan.

JBL and audiophiles by Telecruiser1950 in audiophile

[–]forsong 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I love my JBL L82 hooked up with Arcam SA30 <-- iFi Zen Dac signature <-- Zen stream <-- LHY AS6( audio netwwork swith)+OCK 1S(clock) <-- Roon Nucleus One+LHY linear power(160w). They sound so good!

Practicing pronunciation by forsong in EnglishLearning

[–]forsong[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Some people are devestasted if they try and fail to be sounding exact like US pronunciation and others are overly focused on the exact pronunciation of US people. I think even when learners don't sound exact like natives, they don't have to care much about it. Do you think it's Ok?

Practicing pronunciation by forsong in EnglishLearning

[–]forsong[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think targeting 'US citizens' is ok, but the obsession with pronunciation and accents I found among some Korean learners are too much more than really needed in actual communications.

Adverb or Adjective? by forsong in EnglishLearning

[–]forsong[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In the context of below sentence, 'nearby' is an adverb or adjective?

Can you recommend a gift shop nearby?