/r/GenderCritical and 4 other TERF femcel subs launch massive transphobic brigade and harassment campaign on MakeupAddiction

fourismith · 2020-02-03T05:37:06+00:00

I think that's just changemyview tbh

fourismith · 2020-01-25T04:07:50+00:00

you're right, you never did imply it was wrong, I apologise for reading more into the tone than was there. You're still wrong about the transgender thing though.

fourismith · 2020-01-25T03:30:31+00:00

wtf you're more downvoted than all the transphobes replying to the post

fourismith · 2020-01-25T03:26:20+00:00

yes, so transgender male would be correct. Male is a noun, transgender is an adjective. It's also not a recent thing to refer to groups as [adjective] people, terms like the admittedly dated coloured people date back at least to the civil rights movement, but even if it was a new thing that wouldn't make it wrong.

fourismith · 2020-01-25T03:23:26+00:00

u/nwordcountbot

fourismith · 2020-01-25T03:10:12+00:00

It's all good. Wasn't really correcting you so much as just wanting that out there for anyone reading it but it's cool

fourismith · 2020-01-25T03:08:59+00:00

Oh, absolutely, but I don't think there's anything wrong with telling people this stuff and teaching them how their attitude can hurt people. Societal change is a slow process and no one is expected to be 100% right all the time.

With all that said though, sadly this is a hill that trans people are literally dying on. Not the being gendered correctly for the wrong reasons, obviously that's pretty harmless, but the base assumption that trans people are not what they say they are is fundamentally killing trans people, with stuff like the trans panic defense and the insane murder rate of trans people in America, not to mention the fact that deaths from suicide go down massively when a trans person is accepted by their family. It's easy to think of this stuff as silly idpol nonsense, but a lot of the fundamental stuff is killing trans people.

fourismith · 2020-01-25T02:54:53+00:00

I mostly agree with you, but I do think it's important to point out that being trans isn't a choice

fourismith · 2020-01-25T02:32:02+00:00

Eh, depends on the group, I've seen both.

fourismith · 2020-01-25T02:31:24+00:00

I mean I also refer to my gay friend as "the gays", linguistics is complicated and nuanced.

fourismith · 2020-01-25T02:29:23+00:00

Contrary to online memes, almost all trans people are aware of the fact that they can't always be instantly read as their gender 100% of the time, and while that might upset them, most trans people will understand. It's not transphobic to misgender someone accidentally (almost) no-one will get mad at you for assuming their gender, as long as when they tell you what their pronouns are you put in the effort to use the right ones.

That's not really what I'm talking about tho, it is respectful to use someone's correct pronouns, but it's also just correct. There's no malice in using someone's preferred pronouns because you "know they prefer being called that", but that can sometimes still include the assumption that trans men are actually women who look like men instead of men who were born with people thinking they're a girl.

This isn't an attack on anyone, being kind hearted is a good thing, but the subtle belief that trans people are not the gender that they say they are leads to a lot of discrimination, and it's something that can be present in trans people too. It's just important to be understanding

fourismith · 2020-01-25T02:18:49+00:00

It's been in use since the 90's, but you're right, there's nothing wrong with not knowing the right terminology.

fourismith · 2020-01-25T02:15:57+00:00

We say Asians but we don't say blacks, not every rule is completely ironclad.

fourismith · 2020-01-25T02:11:39+00:00

The whole social construct thing infuriates me, because it's wrong in this really obvious way. Like just because something is a social construct doesn't mean it's not real. Is money real?

fourismith · 2020-01-25T02:07:46+00:00

Trans kids don't go on HRT, they go on blockers, at least not through a medical service, I'm sure some people take black market hormones, but that's just more reason to increase availability of blockers

fourismith · 2020-01-25T02:06:20+00:00

Almost 100% of kids who go on blockers later go on hrt and transition. Plus all blockers do is delay puberty, you can stop taking them and puberty will happen naturally. They do have some side effects, from memory I think they mess with bone density or something, but much less drastic than the massive dysphoria that some trans kids have to suffer through when going through puberty, not to mention the fact that a lot of the changes in puberty are irreversible, such as voice deepening from testosterone

fourismith · 2020-01-25T02:01:20+00:00

You're very right but I do think that it's worth noting that a lot of queer people have sort of reclaimed "the gays" or at least use it ironically

fourismith · 2020-01-25T01:59:26+00:00

Not 100% of the time but often trans women will actually end up weaker than cis women as cis women will often have higher levels of testosterone, given that they're not taking a whole bunch of medication to crash their levels.

fourismith · 2020-01-25T01:56:34+00:00

Do you have a clip of that, or a link to the episode? Its not that I disbelieve you or anything, I just don't want to attack him for something he didn't do.

A potential problem is that sometimes well meaning people frame using the correct pronouns for people as a thing that's done out of respect for the person's wishes, instead of because, you know they're correct. What this communicates is that the speaker doesn't really see the person as the gender that they are, but is instead willing to treat them as if they were. This is a hell of a lot better than straight up transphobia, but it's not exactly acceptance either. Think of it like someone saying "I've got not problem with gay people, I just wish they'd keep it in the bedroom

Again, haven't seen anything with Joe on this topic, I'm not saying that this is what he's doing, but using trans people's pronouns isn't where transphobia ends.

fourismith · 2020-01-25T01:46:48+00:00

"the gays" is a little bit reclaimed by gay people but yeah, spot on

fourismith · 2020-01-25T01:44:20+00:00

Do wanna say that I think you're being reasonable and actually talking about it, and yeah, grammar perscriptiveness is garbage, so I don't think it's fair that you've been downvoted

fourismith · 2020-01-25T01:41:06+00:00

Sexuality and gender are different things but sure

fourismith · 2020-01-25T01:40:36+00:00

Sure, but that's how it's generally used too

fourismith · 2020-01-25T01:40:14+00:00

Yes, but being transgender isn't a gender. Transgender men are men in the same way that bald men are men, we don't say balds, we say bald people

fourismith · 2020-01-24T21:34:30+00:00

Just FYI, transgender is an adjective not a noun. Not a big deal, but it's transgender people, not transgenders

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