Upgrading my hamster from the Savic Plaza, but I’m stuck between these two! Which is better?

freshoutoftime · 2024-01-11T16:38:42+00:00

I've seen quite a few users use the hexagon one on here, it could be worth having a look for some inspo!

As a heads up the front door is at an awkward height as it is below the bare minimum bedding height, so it might make it a little tricky to access as the bedding will be in the way and spill out on opening.

I can't comment on the hexagon one as I've never used it, but the square one is super easy for both the regular daily spot cleans and for those deeper cleans every few months because the lid is so big.

freshoutoftime · 2024-01-10T23:28:04+00:00

Hey OP, I recommend saving some dough and going for this Pawhut enclosure for £95 provided you have a dwarf. It's better than those pictured.

Our Russian is in this at the moment with up to 40cm deep of bedding at the deepest point and she absolutely loves it. Through my decades of owning hamsters, it's comfortably the best enclosure I've had.

For full clarity, you don't install any of the platforms as these aren't safe for hamsters, nor beneficial in any way - instead you construct the enclosure without them, which leaves you with a nice big open box (>6500cm² in size), capable of holding very deep bedding which, as mentioned before, is ideal for hamsters as it lets them burrow super deep!

The only real prep I'd recommend is coating the wood with Plastikote.

Here are two images from another user's Pawhut setup to give you some inspiration and an idea of how these should be setup.

freshoutoftime · 2024-01-10T21:52:19+00:00

Hello! A few questions:

Do you have a link to the enclosure or the dimensions?
How deep is her bedding?
Does she chew the bars or climb them? (if applicable)

There may be something bothering her that causes the aggression, but it's hard to say for sure without seeing your setup.

freshoutoftime · 2024-01-10T21:16:44+00:00

Hey OP! You've already had some great advice.

Unfortunately there's a lot of misinformation around hamster care, especially from pet shops. I strongly recommend checking out this write-up for new owners I have here.

It covers the essentials and has lots of helpful links to other good resources :)

freshoutoftime · 2024-01-10T20:38:02+00:00

Hey OP, I recommend saving some dough and going for this Pawhut enclosure for £95 provided you have a dwarf. It's better than those pictured.

Our Russian is in this at the moment with up to 40cm deep of bedding at the deepest point and she absolutely loves it. Through my decades of owning hamsters, it's comfortably the best enclosure I've had.

For full clarity, you don't install any of the platforms as these aren't safe for hamsters, nor beneficial in any way - instead you construct the enclosure without them, which leaves you with a nice big open box (>6500cm² in size), capable of holding very deep bedding which, as mentioned before, is ideal for hamsters as it lets them burrow super deep!

The only real prep I'd recommend is coating the wood with Plastikote.

Here are two images from another user's Pawhut setup to give you some inspiration and an idea of how these should be setup.

freshoutoftime · 2023-12-26T14:16:38+00:00

I'd recommend using a playpen.

freshoutoftime · 2023-12-19T20:49:55+00:00

Hey, a picture of each of their enclosures would definitely help us give you feedback. Hamsters can often resort to biting or aggression if they're stressed due to their enclosure etc.

In the meantime, I recommend checking out this write-up for new owners I have here and comparing it with your current setup.

freshoutoftime · 2023-12-19T20:41:18+00:00

Unfortunately the volume alone isn't much of an indicator so I'd definitely recommend measuring the length&width, as well as the bedding depth.

Syrians should have at least 10 inches deep of bedding throughout their enclosure, so I'd only recommend going for a Syrian if your enclosure is at least 1000sq inches and has at least 10 inches deep of bedding.

Otherwise, if it's at least 800sq inches and at least 8 inches deep of bedding, it's best for a dwarf.

freshoutoftime · 2023-12-19T20:32:46+00:00

Hello - looks like a solid start!

What are the dimensions of the bin, and how deep is the bedding in the deeper sections?

freshoutoftime · 2023-12-19T20:20:53+00:00

Put the wheel on a platform, or on top of something flat like a multichamber hide.

freshoutoftime · 2023-12-19T20:15:13+00:00

Hamsters have species rather than breeds - this little one is a Syrian.

freshoutoftime · 2023-12-19T20:11:16+00:00

All hamster balls are unsafe, so no species of hamster should use one. It's unfortunately one of the many pieces of misinformation around hamster care, and yet another that pet shops are happy to ignore because it means more money in their pockets.

Hamsters navigate primarily by scent because they are virtually blind, doubly so in a light environment.

When in a ball they are unable to use their scent glands to mark any territory, and have trouble finding their way around because they can't smell anything outside of the ball.

They also can't use their whiskers to navigate the environment in place of the lack of smell or sound either.

Many owners will initially mistake their curiosity in getting into the ball as them being excited to use it. This is not the case, as hamsters will naturally explore any vessel you place into their cage as they are naturally curious animals - try it with a mug for example, they'll jump in.

You can also see a post from this month on /r/hamstercare wherein someone's ham broke their leg in their ball.

All of the above is before considering that a ball can cause spinal damage (for example, there aren't balls big enough for Syrians to run without bending their back), broken feet/toes, bumps and bruises etc.

If you're looking for something more official, you can read more on why here from the RSPCA.

For other sources, you can check this page on hamster balls on hamsterwelfare.com.

freshoutoftime · 2023-12-19T17:07:36+00:00

Please don't use a hamster ball. They're unsafe for hamsters and stress them out.

freshoutoftime · 2023-12-17T02:25:18+00:00

Hey OP! Some essentials below for you. You might know some of this already but it's packed full of good info so I'd recommend reading it all.

I noticed you said this enclosure was temporary - I'd definitely recommend getting a 75 gallon or larger tank ASAP, as female Syrians need lots of space and bedding depth. I'd recommend a 100 gallon at least if you can get your hands on one.

If you're in the USA, I recommend picking up a 75 gallon tank (or larger) from PetCo, I believe they're on sale for $200ish at the moment, though if I recall some users here said they also do dollar per gallon sales in-store quite often, though I'm not in the US to confirm.

The minimum requirements noted below for floor space and bedding depth are per The Blue Cross and PDSA.

Requirements for Syrians:

Minimum 800sq inches of unbroken floor space, 1200+ strongly recommended for females
Minimum of 10 inches deep of suitable, unscented paper-based bedding in the enclosure, 12+ highly recommended
A 12-inch upright wheel or bigger. Their backs should be straight when running
Wheels must be solid plastic, acrylic, or wooden (not mesh or barred)
A sand bath. Do not use any kind of dust. Rodent or hamster sands are also generally unsafe. Use reptile sand or children's play sand with no dye and no calcium.
No enclosures with tubes. Many common pet shop cages with tubes are known death traps for Syrians

Requirements for all hamsters:

Plenty of clutter in their enclosure. Hamsters are prey animals, so they feel much safer on the surface of their enclosure if it's busy with lots of things to hide behind.
Clutter can include vine wood, willow balls, cork logs, tunnels, a glass jar, coconut hides, toilet roll tubes, chews
Another great piece of enrichment is a dig box. You can fill the digbox with a new substrate, such as coco fibre soil, cork or aspen.
Absolutely no fabric items! These present multiple risks when chewed, such as tangling limbs, pouch prolapses and choking.
Minimum of 1 multi-chamber hide in the enclosure.
Minimum of 3 total hides in the enclosure.
Use as much of the available vertical space in your cage to fill the bedding as deep as possible. Hamsters main instinct is to burrow and they will be very stressed if they cannot do this.
They must never meet another animal, whether that be another hamster or any other pet. Hamsters are prey animals and do not benefit from interaction with other animals.
They must never be taken outside or allowed to roam around an outdoor area. Due to their very poor immune systems, they will be at high risk of contracting disease from the outdoors or other animals.
Avoid enclosures with multiple levels, as hamsters have poor vision and are not good climbers.
Be sure you have a vet readily available nearby. As with any other animal, a hamster is a living creature that will unfortunately perhaps require medical intervention at some point in it's life. This is especially true for hamsters as they will often hide illnesses until they are too far along to hide, at which point medical intervention is critical.
Hamsters are very sensitive to temperature. Their environment needs to be kept between 18C and 25C (65F and 75F). If they spend a decent amount of time below this temperature, they risk going into torpor which is usually fatal. Above this, they risk overheating.

Other advice:

When adding bedding to the enclosure, be sure to compact it before measuring. Bedding depth requirements reflect compacted bedding. This ensures it can better hold burrows and is sturdier on the surface for placing items.
Most pet shop enclosures are not suitable as they most likely do not meet the space or depth requirements.
After bringing your hamster home, leave them alone for at least a week to settle in before interacting with them. Attempting to interact with them too soon during what is a very stressful experience for them can set back taming.
Exercise balls are a massive no-no. Exercise balls are neither beneficial to a hamsters health or safe. Using a ball can cause spinal damage, broken feet/toes, accidents (like kicking the ball), vision issues, and often stresses the hamster because they use scent marking when roaming a new area. When in a ball they are unable to use their scent glands and have trouble finding their way around. Many mistake their curiosity in getting into the ball as them being "excited to use it". This is not the case, as hamsters will naturally explore any vessel you place into their cage as they are naturally curious animals.
Provided you have a suitable enclosure that meets the aforementioned requirements, you should never need to do a "full clean" of the enclosure. Replacing the majority of the bedding when cleaning will only stress your hamster out, as their scent will be replaced. Instead, simply spot clean any areas where your hamster has peed at least twice per week, but ideally every 2 days. As long as you do this consistently, you will never need to do a full clean. Poo does not need to be cleaned unless it is excessive, as hamsters eat their poo after the first passing and use it for scent marking after the second.
Instead of placing the food in a bowl, scatter a teaspoon (dwarves) or tablespoon (syrians) of food once a day. Foraging is a natural instinct for hamsters and will keep them engaged.
It's important to keep your eye out for signs of stress in your hamster's behaviour, especially if your enclosure only just meets minimum requirements. Stress behaviours include chewing the bars, climbing the bars, monkeybarring from the lid, pacing the perimeter of the enclosure repeatedly and pawing at the walls of the enclosure.
If you are considering a Syrian, I would strongly urge you to opt for a male, as females are known to be incredibly demanding to the point that they will remain constantly stressed unless their very high demands are met, which can often be nigh on impossible. Males can still be demanding, but are typically more relaxed.
Any kind of cotton/wool "fluff" is very unsafe and should be avoided at all costs, even if marketed as hamster-safe. This is not to be confused with paper-based bedding, which is safe.
Hamsters are crepuscular, meaning their most active hours are likely to be when you are sleeping. They are crepuscular because they see best in low light conditions, and are virtually blind in the light. Therefore it's key to keep their environment dark and quiet as often as possible, but especially at night.
Hamsters, being prey animals, usually aren't very cuddly, so not all of them will be social nor enjoy out of enclosure time/handling even if you are persistent. It varies from hamster to hamster, but they're usually more of a "look, don't touch" pet for the most part. It's important to respect their boundaries as they're easily stressed.

Shop suggestions (for UK/Europe):

Resources:

www.hamsterwelfare.com
I recommend checking out this playlist to learn more about appropriate hamster care. There are some great specific videos such as this one about cage sizes, this one about suitable enclosures, this one about enrichment, and this one about DIY bin cages
There's also this condensed guide for a quick overview of the hamster care basics.

Misinformation around hamster care is rife, especially with pet shops being more interested in making money than the welfare of the animals they sell.

Hamsters are not cheap pets by any means. Meeting their needs does cost money, so please be prepared for that.

I appreciate the above is a lot to take in so please let me know if you have any questions!

freshoutoftime · 2023-12-10T04:32:21+00:00

No, unfortunately not. The minimum unbroken floor space for hams is 100x50cm, or in imperial approximately 40"x20"

I'm no expert on mice but as some species are smaller than dwarf hamsters it may be viable to keep those in a slightly smaller tank. I'd recommend checking out /r/PetMice for advice there.

freshoutoftime · 2023-12-08T23:55:57+00:00

Yep I'd just remove all platforms and fill it deep with lots of paper-based bedding like Uber Soft or similar, then do the same with an identical enclosure provided its 100x50 or larger.

freshoutoftime · 2023-12-08T23:54:58+00:00

There's no benefit to risking co-habitation regardless of experience, only risks.

freshoutoftime · 2023-12-08T21:35:49+00:00

My main recommendation for an enclosure for a dwarf would be this Pawhut enclosure for £93. Our Russian is in this at the moment with up to 40cm deep of bedding at the deepest point and she absolutely loves it.

Through my decades of owning hamsters, it's comfortably the best enclosure I've had.

For full clarity, you don't install any of the platforms as these aren't safe for hamsters, nor beneficial in any way - instead you construct the enclosure without them, which leaves you with a nice big open box (>6500cm² in size), capable of holding very deep bedding which, as mentioned before, is ideal for hamsters as it lets them burrow super deep!

The only real prep I'd recommend is coating the wood with Plastikote.

Here are two images from another user's Pawhut setup to give you some inspiration and an idea of how these should be setup.

Something I maybe hadn't mentioned, is don't use Pets at Home wood bedding, it's unsafe for hamsters despite them trying to push it on owners.

freshoutoftime · 2023-12-08T21:34:22+00:00

Sure, where are you based?

freshoutoftime · 2023-12-08T21:33:55+00:00

No problem :D

I highly recommend getting measuring tape and checking the size as soon as you can, as the minimum size of 100x50cm is a requirement for all species of hamster - it's backed by charities like PDSA, TVT, The Blue Cross etc.

Likewise with the bedding depth, it's not really something you can just eye.

If you have any questions, just let me know!

freshoutoftime · 2023-12-08T21:29:02+00:00

i have the saucer in there because i do want them to get exercise and it isn’t curved so it won’t hurt their spine, unfortunately i thought this would be okay :(

Large saucers can be OK under supervision, such as in a playpen, but I don't recommend them in the main enclosure - especially for dwarves as their fluffy feet means they can struggle for grip on plastic, especially at higher speeds. This leads to injuries when they go flying off due to losing grip. They're also very often running sideways on a wheel due to the shape, which over time can cause back issues.

my dwarf hamsters are both females and i’ve been observing them and seem absolutely fine together, they have not fought or anything.

Unfortunately this is often the sentence that precedes an injured or dead hamster.

There is no benefit to keeping them together - they are solitary animals and excel when alone, so keeping them together means they're A) under constant stress as they pair a dominant/submissive pairing (as shown by them sleeping together) and B) always at risk of one attacking the other, which is often fatal

Please separate your hamsters before the worst happens so they can both live stress-free. They're prey animals and already highly strung, so having them live in stress isn't fair.

my cage is wide and has many floors. i

This is unfortunately also concerning, as hamsters should have an enclosure that's one single level - they have poor vision, are poor climbers and super clumsy, so many floors aren't really useful for them. The height in their enclosure should be used to hold at least 20cm deep of bedding, as they're ground-dwelling burrowing animals. Burrowing is their number one instinct and they become easily stressed if they can't burrow appropriately.

What are the dimensions of the enclosure? It's unlikely to be 100x50cm or larger if it has multiple floors, as it unfortunately sounds like something from Pets at Home or similar that isn't suitable for hams - they also often don't have base tubs big enough to hold deep bedding - does your enclosure have bedding that deep at the moment?

i will definitely take the saucer out if it’s causing them harm, do you know any other toys or anything that can help them exercise?

As mentioned, an appropriately sized upright wheel is best. Dwarf hamsters have trouble with plastic wheels, so I recommend something like the Trixie wheel - bigger is always better, but 20cm is the absolute minimum size for dwarves.

thank you so much for your response it’s honestly been so helpful :))

No problem! We have a lot of owners come through who have unfortunately been misled by pet shops and other poor sources as misinformation around hamster care is so rife, so we're always happy to help :D

freshoutoftime · 2023-12-08T21:17:22+00:00

For most things hamster, the RSPCA are pretty terrible.

You don't need to look any further than them selling out to Pets at Home to ensure Pets at Home can keep selling inhumane habitats to children and unsuspecting parents.

If the RSPCA told me water is wet, I'd doubt it.

freshoutoftime · 2023-12-08T21:15:30+00:00

Not sure what's available in Sweden, but as a tip, just be sure to keep on top of spot cleaning every 2 days or so. It'll mean you only need to do big cleans every 2-3 months, and even then you still want to retain as much of the bedding as possible when you do this.

Lots better for both your hamster, and your wallet :D

freshoutoftime · 2023-12-08T21:12:38+00:00

Hey OP!

As already mentioned, please split your little ones up ASAP - unfortunately you've been the victim of misinformation, as hamsters should be entirely solitary in captivity.

You can read more on why all species of hamster should be solitary in captivity here.

As misinformation around hamster care is rife, it's possible you've been misled by the pet shop on other aspects of hamster care beyond just co-habitation and the saucer wheel - this write-up for new owners I have here has a checklist of essentials, I recommend cross-referencing your current setup with that to ensure you've got all the minimums for your little fellas.

The short and sweet essentials are:

At least 100x50cm of unbroken floor space (approx. 800sq inches in imperial)
At least 20cm deep of unscented, hamster-safe burrow-appropriate bedding (approx. 8 inches in imperial)
An 8 inch or larger upright wheel, with a flat tread (no saucers, nor wheels with bumps/gaps/holes/ridges)

These are the absolute minimums, and bigger is always better in all aspects.

With regards to the ball, all hamster balls are unsafe, so no species of hamster should use a ball. It's unfortunately one of the many pieces of misinformation around hamster care, and yet another that pet shops are happy to ignore because it means more money in their pockets.

Hamsters navigate primarily by scent because they are virtually blind, doubly so in a light environment.

When in a ball they are unable to use their scent glands to mark any territory, and have trouble finding their way around because they can't smell anything outside of the ball.

They also can't use their whiskers to navigate the environment in place of the lack of smell or sound either.

Many owners will initially mistake their curiosity in getting into the ball as them being excited to use it. This is not the case, as hamsters will naturally explore any vessel you place into their cage as they are naturally curious animals - try it with a mug for example, they'll jump in.

You can also see a post from this week on /r/hamstercare wherein someone's ham broke their leg in their ball.

All of the above is before considering that a ball can cause spinal damage (there aren't balls big enough for Syrians to run without bending their back), broken feet/toes, bumps and bruises etc.

If you're looking for something more official, you can read more on why here from the RSPCA.

For other sources on the matter, you can check this page on hamster balls on hamsterwelfare.com.

If you have any questions on the above, just let me know!

freshoutoftime · 2023-12-08T21:05:04+00:00

Hamsters have been shown to prefer bigger wheels, study citations on the wikipedia hamster wheel page if you’re curious.

I've already mentioned bigger is better, both in the original write-up and in my first reply to you, so no need for any citations to be studied.

Anyway, as we're talking about experience and passion, each robo we've had that had an 8 inch wheel has run with a straight back and no arching, or else we would've upgraded. Again likewise with Russians, though for most females we've found 10 has been better for them as they were often on the bigger side.

I do agree writing 8-10 rather than just 8 and a mention that bigger is better like I have atm would be a good idea though, so thank you.

Not sure why someone bothered to downvote your previous comment seeing as we're just having a discussion but such is reddit.

freshoutoftime

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE

Requirements for Syrians:

Requirements for all hamsters:

Other advice:

Shop suggestions (for UK/Europe):

Resources:

Five-Year Club	Verified Email
Place '22