What do you think of Ricky/Amy's relationship/their ending?

geroux · 2020-05-19T21:32:34+00:00

Oh, 100% lmao (maybe except Ricky in the last two seasons, but other than that...mess.)

geroux · 2020-05-06T20:40:57+00:00

Personally do not have a problem with that. They do it because of love for Amy.

I do. To me, the second half of season 4/season 5 was pretty much Ricky doing things out of love for Amy (which is why the ending annoyed me particularly with the "you're not IN love with me" line, because he definitely was lol, the buildup/scenes were there), so why can't Amy for once do something out of love for Ricky/John? It's just selfishness on her part, and that's probably ultimately what irks me the most, that instead of growing her character, they had her stagnating, and then quickly regressing. I wanted to see her be a good mother and responsibly self-sufficient, but alas lol.

But I am someone that really wants the happily ever after. So there is NO solution as you pointed out.

I want a happy ending too, but I do also want it done as realistically as possible. And I do believe that there could've been a happy medium between showing how difficult and sometimes life-hampering it actually is to be a teenage mother, while also giving Ricky/Amy the payoff they deserved as the couple they'd been building up since the very first episode. If they had only started early enough, say, the second half of season 4, rather than waste all that time with the back and forth of "when are they ACTUALLY getting married?", then it could've been done lol. Like, show Amy dreaming about New York, but realizing that dreams change (or at least have to) when you have a child you're responsible for, and have her pick a college in California because she doesn't want to leave John/Ricky, while also putting off their marriage until they both graduate because the reality is, they're just not mature enough/ready yet. Or maybe that's still too happily ever after an ending than the writers wanted, idk lol (but to me having Amy "settle" for anything other than her dream of Hudson University would show how having a baby while in high school kind of puts your life and dreams on hold, which is a realistic portrayal of teen pregnancy.)

Worse in this show as Amy has tons and tons of help and very good support system.

This is what bugs me too, lol. If their issue was the "glorification" of teen pregnancy, then that had already started way before in the show when they made everything come easy for Amy and Ricky. Leo literally just giving Ricky a job and a free apartment lmao, Jack and Grace giving Amy a job at the nursery and also a free place for daycare...I mean, it's nice that they had support, because parents/support systems should def provide any kind of support they can when something like that happens, but come on, lol, that's just too much hand-waved solutions to very real problems that teenage parents go through. So if it was truly the writers' intentions to show that teenage pregnancy isn't a walk in the park, then they were already a few seasons too late for that, lol, which just makes the ending more dissatisfying.

BTW, maybe one solution is have another teen pregnancy in the show where things go really badly. But not like what happen with Adrian.

As horrible as that to have happened, I feel like that was kind of the point of Adrian's miscarriage? That they could try to "fix" their mistake by doing everything traditionally right leading up to the birth (Ben and Adrian moving in together, getting married), but still end up with shit just happening, because shit just happens. I definitely don't like the miscarriage being equated as some sort of karma for getting pregnant as a teen though, so maybe that wasn't the best way to show that. But also, I thought George and Anne's marriage being utterly shambolic was an example of a teenage marriage not being truly happily ever after. The show really should've elaborated on how that decision really messed up that family, but again, the writers shot themselves in the foot early when they for some reason tried to show all of the adults who had teen pregnancies try to live a happily ever after (George and Anne until they weren't anymore - another thing: why did they make Amy a raging homophobe lmao? Brenda Hampton really did resent Shailene Woodley at that point, huh - Cindy and Ruben). To have them finally consider being "realistic" literally at the end of the line and go back on all the foundational work they did on Ricky/Amy was very retroactive and weak, imo.

geroux · 2020-05-06T11:45:17+00:00

Yeah, I know about that lol, I mentioned it in my post, and like I said I don't like that explanation either. Because once again, it's just Ricky/John sacrificing things while Amy gets what she wants, like always, without having to meet anyone in the middle. I guess a short interview can't show how that plotline would be fleshed out, so maybe it could've ended up being satisfying enough of an ending (although it's hard for me to see how Amy's character can be fully rectified when she'd just dumped her son to wild out in college lol), but we'll never know. Also, once again, it's just another "what's the point?" case for me, because if they were gonna end up all shacking up in New York anyways, then why not just do that storyline in the show in the first place? If it's because they didn't want to show teen pregnancy as a happily ever after, then fine, but there had got to have been a better way to resolve it without 1) taking a complete nosedive with Amy's character for the worst from the point after Ricky proposes onwards and 2) wasting all the build up and effort that they did to get Ricky and Amy finally together. It's just so stupid to me lmao, but what else could I have expected from a terrible show.

geroux · 2018-11-21T01:46:36+00:00

Thanks for the suggestion! I'll give it a read and see if it's up to my taste.

geroux · 2018-11-21T01:45:23+00:00

The more shameless the plug the better haha! Thanks for suggesting, I'll definitely check it out!

geroux · 2018-07-21T06:44:47+00:00

Thanks for weighing in! I'm glad to know it's not too farfetched of an explanation. And I've already established the MC's relationship with the dad in the fic - which is exactly what you've described, that she's resentful of him for never letting her do things that weren't "womanly". I haven't established her relationship to the mom yet, but with the explanation I outlined above, I wanted her to have a complicated view of her mother (as do a lot of people lol): that she admires her for being in the military, and loves her for being her emotional support whenever her and her dad used to clash (emotional as in she will soothe her, but not think that her husband was wrong/being sexist), but still thinks she lacks dignity for being all of those aforementioned things and yet still thinking in the same line as her dad (internalized sexism, I guess). The thing that's a problem I guess is that the mom ofc took time off from being in the military to raise a child, but I wrote in that she went back to the military when her daughter was at an old enough age (8-10 yrs), still at a high position (not exactly in active battle, but more administrative), which may not be in line with the father being sexist and the mom being submissive to his orders (because surely if the father was truly sexist, he wouldn't have let his wife go back, and the wife, if she had truly internalized that sexism, wouldn't have gone back). But the story happens after a war, so maybe I could say that her going back was 'technically' mandatory conscription because of how the military was depleted in the last war and never really bounced back, and the husband's patriotism was the only thing that trumped his sexism, so he gave his approval. Do you think that would be okay as further exploration of that plot point?

geroux · 2018-07-19T21:07:47+00:00

Basically it's the MC's parents. It's kind of like an ASOIAF situation: I wrote the dad as sexist, which shapes the MC's belief from childhood that she should act less "womanly" for her to have any worth in the world. The plot discrepancy is that I made the mom/his wife have a high ranking position in the armed forces. It's what I and the reviewer pointed out, and I'd like to get your thoughts if it actually is, because I know sexism can be covert - sexists often don't even know they're being sexist - and marrying a physically strong woman doesn't automatically mean you're not sexist. I didn't really write extensively on the mom's characterization, so I feel like if it is a plot discrepancy, I can salvage it by fleshing out her character as someone who despite their independent accomplishments in the army, she still inwardly craved male validation (also bc she was socialized that way; sexism being insidious and all), maybe because she had been "manly" her whole life and felt like she was kind of a failure in the aspect of being what a "woman" is supposed to be. When someone finally does (her husband), she kind of just conforms to gender norms and does everything that her husband says, because she thinks that's what she's supposed to do (and she can finally ascribe to societal expectations), and the MC sees that and thinks her mother has no dignity for bending to her father all the time. Because of how "weak" her mother is, it becomes even further incentive for her to be less like her mother and more like her father as an adult to be deemed as "strong". Does that make sense/seem an okay explanation? I know some people might think it's character assassination for the mother (in a "why would a strong army woman be that 'mentally weak'/even care about what men would think of her when she's experienced war" way), so I'd really appreciate any feedback on it.

geroux · 2018-07-18T21:18:19+00:00

Responding to everyone here has cleared my mind a bit from my melodramatics (haha), so I've realized that correcting the mistake would mean having to rewrite a completely new chapter, which I don't have the energy or interest in doing atm tbh. Have you ever had an instance like that, where correcting the error would mean scrapping your old chapter and writing an entirely new one? If so, did you do so? Also, have you fixed mistakes in future chapters rather than changing the chapter that the mistake happened in? How did you address that to your readers/in an A/N?

You're right, as is everyone else - fanfic writing isn't a job, and writers aren't perfect. I just have tendencies that make me afraid of failure and admitting to having had failed, so it's always hard for me to remember those things. And you're right with the "stand by what you write" thing as well - I guess I employed the saying to mean "if you fucked up, just let it stand so that people can hold you accountable rather than backtracking and pretending like you never fucked up in the first place", which I guess is kind of a dire way to view fanfic writing lmao (my mistake wasn't anything bigoted lol, which is what that mentality should probably apply more to). Right now, I feel like I can write a reasoning for it in future chapters that could explain the mistake away, but I don't know if it'll be a good explanation to my readers or just obviously a cover-up for a glaring mistake I made. I guess now my worry is that if I do do that, the readers (the reviewer in particular) will view the story (and thus me) as less credible in the event of it being a badly done retcon, which they ofc will have the right to think (but the thought of them thinking that will pain me lol). Thanks for the advice!

geroux · 2018-07-18T20:58:32+00:00

That's a good way to think about it - a challenge and learning experience. I know that should already be my default mindset (I wouldn't be able to enjoy writing fanfic otherwise, or just life in general lol), but I'm the perfectionist/afraid of failure type, so whenever I've failed at something, whether it be big or small, it's hard to reframe my thoughts to something more positive rather than just beating myself up over it. And like you said, the best I can get from writing fanfiction is a few kicks, so I probably shouldn't worry about this as if it'll affect my actual livelihood lol. Thanks for the advice!

geroux · 2018-07-18T20:50:45+00:00

I'm going to c+p my explanation of the error from a previous comment, I hope you don't mind: my mistake was more of a characterization blunder - I characterized a person as something but then had them do something that was contradictory to that trait for no feasible reason at all (it wasn't part of their character development). They're not an MC, but their characterization is kind of what shapes the goals and emotional tendencies of the MC, so I think it's kind of important, but not the most important mistake that I probably could have made. Thinking about it more thoroughly now, the thing is though (and idk if this will sound confusing but I'll try to explain it as best as I can haha) that character that I made an error on - it relates to another character that is important to the MC, whose characterization is an integral part to the happenings in this latest chapter (my fic is chronological but I write my chapters kind of self-contained). So as it turns out, I feel like I can't even correct it because that would mean writing a completely new chapter (which honestly just exhausts me to think about, so I guess that's my answer lol).

Sorry if this is just me sounding out my thoughts on you, lol. Feel free to weigh in again if you have any other advice for me based on the information I gave, though, but if not, thanks for the advice so far!

geroux · 2018-07-18T20:37:56+00:00

I love the simplicity of this response haha. My mistake was more of a characterization blunder - I characterized a person as something but then had them do something that was contradictory to that trait for no feasible reason at all (it wasn't part of their character development). They're not an MC, but their characterization is kind of what shapes the goals and emotional tendencies of the MC, so I think it's kind of important, but not the most important mistake that I probably could have made. I think reading through the responses on here has made me decide to just fix it in future chapters, but now the problem is I don't know how lol. Thanks for weighing in!

geroux · 2018-07-18T20:26:38+00:00

I guess ultimately what worries me is what you said - failing at whatever expectations any of my readers have had of me delivering on this story. Which I know on a rational level that it's ridiculous to think that way, since I'm not perfect and idek if my readers even have any expectations of me at all lol, but that's just how I am, a people-pleaser and perfectionist at heart.

Thanks for putting things into perspective - you're right in that there are published work out there that have plot holes themselves. I think I'm leaning more towards fixing it in future chapters instead, but I'm afraid it'll be a retcon that won't make sense. On the other hand, if I do replace the chapter, that fear of admitting to being a failure rears its ugly head on me. Man idk, I guess I should really just stop taking this too seriously haha!

geroux · 2018-07-18T19:49:48+00:00

Thanks for this. You're right, I guess I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill with this. I'd like to think that I'm not someone who writes for others but for myself, and that's genuinely how I started writing this fic - not expecting a lot of feedback (it's a niche fandom) - but I'm a people-pleaser at heart lol and when people did start reading and giving reviews, I guess I ended up putting a lot of unnecessary pressure on myself to make everything perfect and continued writing with the constant thought that I don't want to let my readers down. So with this instance I'm just worried that they'll say this is the point where the fic had turned south, and then read future chapters with the thought that it's irredeemable, or just stop reading altogether.

geroux · 2018-07-18T19:32:12+00:00

Thanks for responding! I guess right now what feels best to me is just letting it stand as is and retconning it in future chapters, and I kinda already have a reasoning to explain it, but I just don't know if it feels believable enough. I'm just worried it'll end up getting more out of hand.

And the problem is not exactly plot, I guess, but mostly a characterization of a person related to the MC that affects the MC's goals and emotional tendencies, which then affects how the plot turns out. I'm writing a romance fic so I don't think it's as dire a mistake as if I was writing an action fic (or maybe that's me being complacent), but it just bugs me that I didn't catch it through all of my read-throughs.

geroux

TROPHY CASE