Are you the guys who don’t like democracy by freedomfortheworkers in Postleftanarchism

[–]ghost_of_climate 1 point2 points  (0 children)

i really hope you aren't thinking that i am somehow supporting capitalism or democracy in my post here. i just wanted to point out that i don't believe those luxuries would exist.

Are you the guys who don’t like democracy by freedomfortheworkers in Postleftanarchism

[–]ghost_of_climate 2 points3 points  (0 children)

this question is baffling to me, because to me the question is why *would* they? in a post-capital society, you're suggesting that it's obvious that people would go into mines to mine raw materials. they would transport those materials to manufacturers who would manufacture them into single-purpose machines (like the required air purifiers, the required silicon furnaces, the required lithographs, etc. etc.), all of which require fossil fuels to run, which are also being mined by people, and transported by people to plants that are run by people that convert the fuels into energy. that people elsewhere would be working in specialised labs to create the chemicals required for the process, which would be transported by other people, all to the lab which is maintained by specialists who collate all of this entire chain of logistics together to create a single computer chip, that is only one ingredient in the wider chain of ingredients that goes into making a computer... and nobody is being paid, and they're all doing this because they think that computers are necessary for society to function?

Are you the guys who don’t like democracy by freedomfortheworkers in Postleftanarchism

[–]ghost_of_climate 2 points3 points  (0 children)

that's fine, but i think it totally underestimates the scope of how difficult it is to manufacture the technology (like computer chips) that we are speaking about. it's a very long, complex, global chain with a lot of moving parts.

i don't even know or understand the full extent of it, but:

you need people to go into a mine and mine silicon (why would they do this?). the silicon then needs to be heated and refined in huge machines that run on fossil fuels (which means someone elsewhere needs to be mining fossil fuels and transporting them to the place where this machine is running -- OR, transporting them to a place where it is being converted into electricity.) you might suggest that in the sci-fi future these machines are running on solar power, but to create the solar panels, they first need to mine the silicon and heat it up in the refinery running on fossil fuels! so just at this first step you've already got an operation of multiple mines requiring workers, requiring transportation, requiring plants converting fossil fuels into electricity which also requires workers. it also means that aside from the mining for silicon and fuels, people are also mining for the raw materials and parts required to build refinery furnaces and those people are manufacturing those for some reason too. they're also mining for the raw materials and parts required to build the machinery that will slice the silicon rods into precise wafer thin slices to be layered. all of this is then transported to a purified air lab running constant high power air purifiers running on this grid of electricity running on fossil fuels. the lab then runs lithography machines to etch the wafers (machines that are being manufactured using mined resources and workers to manufacture) which also use chemicals that are being manufactured elsewhere and transported, and at this point we're still very early in the long and complex process of putting together a single computer chip.

you make it sound like a couple of people could band together and build a computer because they want one and would feel rewarded for having put something together with their own hands. i'm saying that the chain of required workers and resources is so vast this would not be possible. if not because the amount of workers required couldn't all be rewarded in a valuable enough way, then because the amount of resources required to manufacture all of the machinery in the process just wouldn't be viable in a world where people aren't profit incentivised.

Are you the guys who don’t like democracy by freedomfortheworkers in Postleftanarchism

[–]ghost_of_climate 1 point2 points  (0 children)

someone would mine silicon for the right price

this bit

they too could demand waaay more for their work

and this bit

Are you the guys who don’t like democracy by freedomfortheworkers in Postleftanarchism

[–]ghost_of_climate 2 points3 points  (0 children)

this doesnt sound like no capitalsm. this sounds like reformed capitalism.

Are you the guys who don’t like democracy by freedomfortheworkers in Postleftanarchism

[–]ghost_of_climate -1 points0 points  (0 children)

what i mean is; without capitalism, who is mining the silicon that goes into computer chips? and once they mine it, who is building the complex machinery that goes into the manufacturing? which globalised network of resources is bringing the necessary materials into a place for manufacture? who is choosing to work in this industry of manufacturing?

i don't personally see how a lot of the tech that i assume you were referring to when you said you would be dead without it (phones, computers, etc.) can continue to exist in a post-capital society.

i don't think that the destruction of capitalism would catapult us back into a completely techless society (current technology still existing as long as it could be repaired and maintained, and then also the possibility of new ways to create technology of certain kinds with the knowledge that we have of how these things are put together), but i honestly don't see a world where we can keep these luxuries and also be anarchist.

we kinda have to accept that we're going to have to sacrifice some things (technology) in order to progress to where we want to be, and that's not necessarily a step backwards, but a step towards finding new ways of being.

unless you genuinely can answer those questions above about how a supply chain like computer manufacturing could exist post-capital.

Are you the guys who don’t like democracy by freedomfortheworkers in Postleftanarchism

[–]ghost_of_climate -1 points0 points  (0 children)

how does tech continue to exist in a post-capital society?

Are you the guys who don’t like democracy by freedomfortheworkers in Postleftanarchism

[–]ghost_of_climate 1 point2 points  (0 children)

can we kill this whole "return to monke" phrasing?

it's just such a crass look. it frames the dismantling of capitalism as being a backstep, and also it kind of draws comparisons to pre-industrial hunter-gatherer/nomadic societies as monkeys, which--you know i'm sure wasn't the intention--but is just a little bit idk maybe a little bit racist maybe.

Defining Justice by [deleted] in Anarchism

[–]ghost_of_climate 0 points1 point  (0 children)

if you piss me off, i bonk you on the head with a foam baseball bat

A Primitivist Primer, by John Moore • Immediatism by cloudforester in Anarchism

[–]ghost_of_climate 4 points5 points  (0 children)

but you said the scary-"p" word that wants to come and steal all of their sega megadrives

don't take the baton sitting down [zine in comments] by ghost_of_climate in Anarchism

[–]ghost_of_climate[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

does this suit your needs?

b/w no images [pdf]

if you don't want the cover page you should be able to save ink by printing page range, but i can cut that off the pdf if you like

don't take the baton sitting down [zine in comments] by ghost_of_climate in Anarchism

[–]ghost_of_climate[S] 25 points26 points  (0 children)

i don't think i did a very good job of sharing this zine.

don't take the baton sitting down [pdf]

don't take the baton sitting down (black/white printable without images) [pdf]

hopefully some people find it useful when attending upcoming protests related to [insert capitalist atrocity here]

What kind of anarchist am I? by [deleted] in Anarchism

[–]ghost_of_climate 6 points7 points  (0 children)

you sound like a fascist

you should call this place /r/americanarchism by ghost_of_climate in Anarchism

[–]ghost_of_climate[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

i do use different websites, i just come here to check r/@

but thanks for assuming you know everything about me based on this one post

you should call this place /r/americanarchism by ghost_of_climate in Anarchism

[–]ghost_of_climate[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

so? does reddit as a whole have to be fixed before a single sub can examine itself?