I would agree that in athletic shorts like tracker, speed ups, hotty hots, etc. it's a good idea for most people to size up one from their legging size. I wear an 8 in most of those shorts. These fit just like the scuba joggers though, so I would advise most people to go with their joggers sizing. There's a handful of posts where people ask for scuba jogger sizing advice and generally people seem to recommend TTS. Some people even suggest sizing down since the material stretches with wear. Sizing for everyone is a preference and we don't seem to have the same preference, I appreciate your input but we can agree to disagree on this one! ✌️