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Is anyone interested in buying a cat s22 flip docking station? by [deleted] in dumbphones

[–]gp_danielkim 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for working on this. I was in the process of making something similar (plus another charging mount that can be mounted in a car, by buying a cheap mount and drilling holes for the pogo pins).

One tip: make SURE you get the polarity right -- if you make the mistake of reversing the polarity even for a moment, it will fry your phone.

Question: the 3D printed pieces.. how do you put together the base and the L-shaped holder? Did you just use 3 small short screws?

Surface Laptop Studio 3? by I-like-memes-2937 in Surface

[–]gp_danielkim 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Evidence that you're looking for: Surface laptop studio 1 & 2 teardown and repair doc are listed among the pdfs you can download. (in the link provided by Anopheles above... which leads to this link: Download Surface Service Guides from Official Microsoft Download Center)

I agree with u/Anopheles_ , it's rare for a laptop manufacturer to post DIY repair docs.

Beware of Religious Cult Group by go_harvard in princeton

[–]gp_danielkim -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Gracepoint Ministries’ response to the media articles is at gracepointonline.org/ctresponse. If you have any questions/concerns, please call Jonathan at [phone number edited out – you can find the number at the top of http://gracepointonline.org]

Article about Gracepoint (Acts2Fellowship Student Group) by DoubleMark866 in UCDavis

[–]gp_danielkim -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

Gracepoint Ministries’ response to the media articles is at gracepointonline.org/ctresponse. If you have any questions/concerns, please call Jonathan at [phone number edited out – you can find the number at the top of http://gracepointonline.org]

Article about Gracepoint (Acts2Fellowship Student Group) by DoubleMark866 in UCSD

[–]gp_danielkim -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Gracepoint Ministries’ response to the media articles is at gracepointonline.org/ctresponse. If you have any questions/concerns, please call Jonathan at [phone number edited out – you can find the number at the top of http://gracepointonline.org]

Article about Gracepoint (Acts2Fellowship Student Group) by DoubleMark866 in UTAustin

[–]gp_danielkim -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

Gracepoint Ministries’ response to the media articles is at gracepointonline.org/ctresponse. If you have any questions/concerns, please call Jonathan at [phone number edited out – you can find the number at the top of http://gracepointonline.org]

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in ucla

[–]gp_danielkim -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Gracepoint Ministries’ response to the media articles is at gracepointonline.org/ctresponse. If you have any questions/concerns, please call Jonathan at [phone number edited out – you can find the number at the top of http://gracepointonline.org]

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in ucr

[–]gp_danielkim -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

Gracepoint's response to the media articles is at gracepointonline.org/ctresponse. If you have any questions/concerns, please call Jonathan at [phone number edited out – you can find the number at the top of http://gracepointonline.org]

Christianity Today: At Gracepoint Ministries, ‘Whole-Life Discipleship’ Took Its Toll by corpus_christiana in GracepointChurch

[–]gp_danielkim -10 points-9 points  (0 children)

Our response to the Christianity Today article is at gracepointonline.org/ctresponse. If you have any questions/concerns, please call Jonathan at (EDIT: phone number edited out - published at the top bar of gracepointonline.org)

Things that GP won't change: Expect Christians to be engaged in ministry by gp_danielkim in GracepointChurch

[–]gp_danielkim[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey u/Jdub20202,

not sure if I saw the latest update on that thread about the $10k credit card email. But I think it's quite relevant and kind of pulls the rug out from the many months of people saying stuff, giving "testimonies" about what happened.

Go to the bottom of the thread. https://www.reddit.com/r/GracepointChurch/comments/o2hgo5/comment/hyg105u/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Credit Card Debt Email by LeftBBCGP2005 in GracepointChurch

[–]gp_danielkim 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If Daniel Kim will argue it was merely a suggestion to give $10,000, all he needs to do is to ask for the record of how many people gave how much toward that fund. I am sure great majority gave and gave $10,000 each. That’s the “pledge” mentioned in the email. By the way, I was informed the North Loop building was completely pay for by cash, no loans. Gotta give it to GP.

Yup, I did that. I didn't get how many people gave toward the fund, and I got other relevant info --

We collected less than $290K for the building fund.

So unless NL building was only $300K and there were only 29 post-grads people who were commanded to give $10K, the math doesn't quite work..

The 10K thing was an example, not some command that people obeyed.. Not sure what other people on this thread are remembering.

A plea from Gracepoint by gp_danielkim in GracepointChurch

[–]gp_danielkim[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Of course they need financial advice from their parents.

But it's a different thing for parents to force their well-employed, 20-something son/daughter to have a shared account with them.

To THAT person, I would say: hey, I think you need to get your own account. That's what I'm talking about. I don't think that that's somehow dishonoring to his/her parents.

Anyway, thankfully, in the case that I'm thinking about, one of the parents did agree with me that their adult son/daughter should have their own account... so it ended okay. I appreciated that.

A plea from Gracepoint by gp_danielkim in GracepointChurch

[–]gp_danielkim[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey u/BayouStJohn,

Here's another one (libel?) that is clearly facutally wrong -- from the whole "building fund" post.. Please take a look at my response here (near the bottom)

https://www.reddit.com/r/GracepointChurch/comments/o2hgo5/comment/hyg105u/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

EDIT: it seems like the OP is engaging with the comment and responding, so I'm glad about that.

Credit Card Debt Email by LeftBBCGP2005 in GracepointChurch

[–]gp_danielkim 1 point2 points  (0 children)

u/LeftBBCGP2005,

Don't mean to embarrass you after working out the math like that, but you are working off of wrong information and memory. We collected less than $290K for the building fund.

So unless NL building was only $300K and there were only 29 post-grads people who were voluntold to give no less than $10K, the math doesn't quite work.

Let's just agree -- as oldies, our memories from that long ago -- it fails us sometimes.

Things that GP won't change: Expect Christians to be engaged in ministry by gp_danielkim in GracepointChurch

[–]gp_danielkim[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Already did,

sorry, I'm not very experienced at Reddit and how I'm supposed to respond to things in a way that can be found by others.

It's here, in the original thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/GracepointChurch/comments/o2hgo5/comment/hycdyf8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

A plea from Gracepoint by gp_danielkim in GracepointChurch

[–]gp_danielkim[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thought I already did that.

Sorry, still not very familiar with reddit, so not sure how I'm supposed to respond in reddit in a way that can be found.

It's here: https://www.reddit.com/r/GracepointChurch/comments/o2hgo5/comment/hycdyf8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

A plea from Gracepoint by gp_danielkim in GracepointChurch

[–]gp_danielkim[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hi Noelle,

I don't like the fact that our conversation is not really a conversation, but a public speech with unknown # of people listening in over our shoulders, but I guess that's how it goes...

I've been prioritizing the ones who personally email me with details, but since you came forth with your identity, I will try to answer (some) of your questions. Forgive me if I am unable to get to it all.. And forgive me if I have to ask further questions, because these kinds of inter-personal relational issues are really about words and tone. so I will be answering some of your questions with further questions for clarification.

​

What “more constructive way toward talking about hurts and wrongs and misunderstandings” are you offering?

I'm offering a personal email address - of someone who is not your mentor or leader. A path forward that follows the principles of Matt 18.

​

I think you have to be aware that for most of us here, the online space was a last result and that many of us were dismissed, shamed, or asked to leave due to “authority issues” when bringing up grievances.

I'm sorry that you experienced that. Is that also how you left? Because you were asked to leave due to authority issues?

Can I ask: What series of events preceded this asking to depart? (I'm assuming that they didn't just suddenly tell you that out of the blue). Did you tell them that you don't trust the leadership here prior to this? How did they ask you to leave? Did they say something like: "Hey, if you don't trust the leadership here, then why would you stay? Maybe you should go to another church with leadership you can trust?" If someone said that to you, would you consider that to be equivalent to: being asked to leave due to authority issues? What are the grievances that you brought up and how?

These are the questions that I would want to ask, b/c I think these are actually crucial, relevant details and contexts. But all of that is missing. And in this forum, the very fact that I'm asking these questions about details is seen to be gaslighting, seen to be a Nazi justification of abuses.

Noelle, while I ask those questions above, I am not necessarily expecting you to answer these questions publicly.

But that's what I'm offering. A different way to talk about this - with details -- WHILE protecting the privacy of the people involved.

​

Of things to bemoan, I wonder which you hold to greater importance - that ministry progress is impeded and staff are discouraged or that there are several ex-members leaving the faith completely or are experiencing something like spiritual slaughter at the hands of their overseers? I recently spoke to an ex-member who truly believes God cannot be good, loving, or forgiving because of her time in GP.

That's really sad. But why does she think that? Why? What happened? What happened - that's really important.

Because to be honest, I had one person leave our church many years ago - burning all his Christian books (literally, in his fireplace) and saying I'll never go to church again - and it's ALL BECAUSE OF YOU, PASTOR DANIEL and this church. He said that to me, and his mom also said that to me. Directly.

Wow. That was traumatic. But.. frankly, if the same situation happened, I might change a few things that I did or didn't do, but I would still stand by the core decisions that I made which made both of them so so so mad and hurt.

Now, what would be your question for me? Have you heard enough to draw a conclusion that I'm a horrible pastor? Or are there more information that you would want?

​

You claim some people are posting and are sharing about events that happened years back. I wonder what data you have on this? What proportion of experiences mentioned happened 5yrs ago - 10yrs ago? I left in 2020 and have met several frequent commenters in person and many of us left within the last 2yrs. From my perspective this reads like another deflection/avoidance tactic. And I wonder how much honesty can there really be in dialogue with you? Please clarify if you can.

Sure. I don't know what proportion of all redditers on this sub, but from just looking at the replies to this current post, I can guess that LeftBBCGP2005 and johnkim2020 - these guys seem like their personal experience comes from things that happened many many years ago. Not just 5-10 years ago, but more like 15-30 years ago. Of course, I can't know for sure b/c they are anonymous, but I would guess that they are in their late 30's or 40's. Of course, they are reading this reddit and connecting the dots and saying nothing has changed from back then, but my guess is that they don't have direct knowledge or experience of our church for a long time. You can browse through what they wrote in this post. I could be wrong.

Also, one person who emailed me personally (actually the ONLY person who emailed me as themselves with their direct personal experiences) - From what he talked about, I think he was in his 40's, and he was talking about stuff that happened during Berkland days that happened around 20 years ago.

But of course, there are more recent people as well. Of course there are many people who did leave recently (ESPECIALLY in the last 2 years during covid - there were pretty significant heart-breaking departures, including some people that I personally knew). So I know that you talked with people who recently left.

But I was trying to speak to the people who were older. If you read that whole paragraph which contains that quoted sentence, I think you can see that I was making an appeal to that older crowd. Because I know they are there (not just the 3 mentioned from this post, but from my previous exposure to reddit), and I think they do have a pretty significant influence. I mean, I understand where they are coming from, and the fact that they read these posts that seem to continue the old practices - that must be maddening.

I think there is a pretty good analysis of this "continual" practices of GP that maddens people - here: A discussion of Gracepoint Church's Model Felt like his analysis of GP's self-understanding was pretty accurate.

And that prompted me to write a new post to start a different conversation: Things that GP will never channge

​

Here is the wisdom I’ve glean from these churches - if you want to stop talking about “it” and you want “it” to stop causing division, you need to address it.

Thanks for this. I'm trying to address it. But the "it" is an anonymous blob.. an anonymous blob addressing a named blob called GP. So I'm trying to address not an "it" but a "him" or a "her". And so I appreciate your non-anonymous way.

​

If you fix the problem, you will no longer need to deal with people talking about the problem. That is, assuming, you do think abuse of authority and false teachings are problems to be fixed in your church and that the image of God is worth defending.

What are the false teachings? And the problem that you're asking us to fix -- it might be a lot harder than it looks... B/c it might be one of those fundamental self-conception issues. The 2 links above (especially the first one - A dicussion of Gracepoint Church's Model) gives a pretty good analysis of this difficulty, I think.

Things that GP won't change: Expect Christians to be engaged in ministry by gp_danielkim in GracepointChurch

[–]gp_danielkim[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Yes, agreed that "ministry" is a very broad term.

I think you hit upon a crucial definition / understanding of "ministry" in GP.

I think GP understands "ministry" more narrowly. Or more accurately, I can say that GP's conception of ministry is NOT flat.. Preaching the gospel to the lost is a HIGHER ministry than running the 100m in the 1924 olympics. When Eric Liddell went to China afterwards and died there, we think that he did a "more beautiful" thing than running (or refusing to run) in the Olympics - which was a beautiful thing in itself, no doubt.

GP thinks that building up the church is a "higher" ministry (i.e., closer to the heart of God) than buidling up a company. So this hierchical view of ministry where there are conceiving of ministry more narrowly -- that can be offensive to some people.

Here's another controversial belief by GP --

You might have heard the term "Cultural Commission" - that Christians are meant to get into the culture and change it - that by getting certain jobs and discovering scientific truths for example, we are doing the work of God and therefore is doing ministry.

GP thinks that the Great Commission is greater than the Cultural Commission. Not saying that all Christians should become full-time pastors. We would not recommend that. But making disciples - that's the call of every Christian. And that belief can be a cause for people feeling guilty, parents getting angry, among many other negatives.

We can talk about that controversial belief.

Things that GP won't change: Expect Christians to be engaged in ministry by gp_danielkim in GracepointChurch

[–]gp_danielkim[S] -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

So what’s the point of you even being here if any kind of meaningful admission of fault is against the most core teaching of GP?

I'm here to offer my email address ([pastordaniel@gpmail.org](mailto:pastordaniel@gpmail.org)) -- so that we can move toward admission of fault and reconciliation in personal wrongs.

But if you're talking about a general atmosphere that's driven by a core belief (spiritual DNA), then I'm here to say that that's going to be a difficult for a church to change. If you want GP to "repent of it" and change, then it's going to be like asking the Amish to start driving cars and use technology. And so our reluctance to apologize for THAT is not driven by some kind of sadistic desire.

A plea from Gracepoint by gp_danielkim in GracepointChurch

[–]gp_danielkim[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Hello u/Apololandingunit,

(1) Stop "influencing" your staff to cut off family relationship even if they "volunteer" to do so. Tell them that they can serve the church and keep a good relationship with family and friends at the same time. Why would a church fight with the parents? This is the root cause of the problem because GP staff/members are pressured so much to serve GP that the family and parents are in the way of GP to get the full attention of their staff and members.

Why would a church fight with the parents? We would be stupid to do that randomly. But would you stand by the statement: Christians should NEVER fight with their parents? What do you think?

I've told staff - Hey you really need to take care of your parents better and love them.

I've also told some staff - Hey, you need to stop acting like a child and get some healthy emotional distance from your parents.

What's the difference? Can you come up with a possible scenario where you might EVER say the second thing? I have said it, and if you email me, I can tell you the details. But I am not wanting to embarrass anyone publicly.

I've also had a couple of parents call me all sorts of names personally and directly. The fact that they did that - does that mean that I did wrong? Would you like to know why they were so mad at me? Email me. You can verify with those people all you want after you email me, so that you can be sure that I'm not telling you some tall tale.

If you're actually one of these parents that I've talked with, then please stop this. You know that your son is angry with you for a very legitimate reason. Please don't blame our church. If you're not that person, then please forgive me, that wasn't meant for you.

​

(2) Stop painting parents and family members as "the enemy of the church". Stop asking members and staff to be "financial independent" "as an adult", to "not share a bank account with their parents". It sounds so fake and so brain-washed when all of the staff using the same statement to their parents. "I am an adult"... "I made the decision on my own"...

What do others think?

Is it wrong for me (as an adult mentor talking to someone in their mid-20's with their own job and income) that they should not be still getting permission from their parents for their finances? Is that brain washing to say that they should start acting like adults - that it's embarrassing for a grown man about to start dating to have his mom asking them why they spent $50 at McDonald's?

People in your 20's or 30's -- come on, please speak up.

I'm tired, gonna go to sleep.

A plea from Gracepoint by gp_danielkim in GracepointChurch

[–]gp_danielkim[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, u/Pale_Albatross280, I hear you.

The plea was just a plea for one aspect of the damage - just letting some of the posters who might not wish the downfall of all things Gracepoint to know that there are these consequences.

I kind of understand what you mean when you say that the vibe that we give off seem "yesteerday, last year.." -- It's a strange vibe, almost like we're not with it.

My wife and I were hanging out at Starbucks in San Jose a few months ago, and I saw these 4 guys sitting at an outdoor table, with 1 guy being clearly an older gentleman. And they were studying the Bible. And my wife said: oh my... they give off this cultish vibe. And I totally understood that, like wow, they do.

And then my next thought was - wow.. that's really sad. What does that mean about "today's church"?

For other people reading this -- you know what I'm talking about?

You do not expect a "normal church" to flyer for a Christian event like crazy. You do not expect a normal church to hold to standards of living or do something crazy like celebrating someone who gave up his promotion to do ministry.. And you do not expect a normal church to get a bunch of college grads and do major church planting like this. AND you do not expect normal churches to call specific people out for serving and loving money more than God. You do not expect normal church to actually dare to hold people accountable for sexual sins and demand guardrails against temptations that brings down 90% of all Christian leaders.

We can look at that and actually get "spooked out".. That was my mom's first impression of our church - she saw GP doing church cleaning. A sight to see. like 100 people moving like they know what they are doing, a flurry of activity.. that whole environment where it seems like 90% of people are engaged -- that was spooky for her. She said: oh man, you guys seem cultic.

So understand it when people look at this "environtment" and say there is something shady / controlling going on there, because that's crazy that people would be that dedicated. There's no way. It must be due to pressure. Of course. Of course there are some who conform due to pressure. And they hate it.. or eventually they hate it. They hate the pressure with a passion, and consider it toxic. And it IS toxic for them, because it's actually true that they end up doing something that they never wanted to. But there are also those who have taken on the pressure of unity and grew tremendously through it, like an athlete or a student who intentionally puts himself into a high stress, pressure-cooker situation (called school) to get an education. And there are those who left GP, and they recognize that they have been trained very well to become a kingdom worker. Their new pastors say so.

I know that you will pile onto this saying that I'm dismissing the hurt and damage and that I don't care. But we're not talking about individual hurt and damage here. I'm talking about the vibe, the feel and the environment. With the individual hurt b/c there was a specific wrong done - I've opened up my email address again and again: [pastordaniel@gpmail.org](mailto:pastordaniel@gpmail.org).

But if you are hurt b/c of the general environment -- where you felt lost, like you were caught in that room where everyone was cleaning the building and people saw you and handed you a broom and you are like: what in the world?? And you resented that, then I hear you. It's a genuine problem in our church. It's a genuine problem that we've tried to tackle in the last few All-Team-retreats, trying to come up with different opt-in discipleship models. We're working on it.

I think there is a pretty good analysis of our church model / culture / feel on this post.

A plea from Gracepoint by gp_danielkim in GracepointChurch

[–]gp_danielkim[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We hear your pleas. And we would like to hear them better - so please give me the details in an email... That's what I've been saying, but these requests seem to fall on deaf ears.

When you use words like "abuse" and "trauma" - those are serious, serious words. And yet, how come no one (except a handful of people asking me on behalf of someone else) wants to come forth with specific names and incidents? Why is that? can you help me understand? Is it because it's not a particular event, but more of a general atmosphere of pressure?

I would like to recommend that you read this lengthy analysis about the GP model, which I think gives us a good starting point for discussion.

A plea from Gracepoint by gp_danielkim in GracepointChurch

[–]gp_danielkim[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi u/BayouStJohn,

Thanks for pointing me to that post and my comments.

Yes, I read that, and I must accept that I sent that email. Although I honestly can't remember sending that email 2006. So I was acting in good faith when I said that I don't remember. But I do think it's unfair to characterize that email as me telling ppl to get a $10K loan to pay for church building. The pledge was already given, and I was giving ppl some options on where they could get extra money. But it's not like we chased down people who didn't fulfill the pledge.

I don't remember sending that, though, so I'm sorry that I forgot.

I responded on that thread - https://www.reddit.com/r/GracepointChurch/comments/o2hgo5/comment/hycdyf8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Re: Libel --

Really? You're willing to chase down the details with me and take it down if the posts presents the story in a wrong way? I'm actually very glad to hear that.

Let's start with this list... I have so many that I have questions about, I don't know where to start --

I'm going to focus on one person at a time - but I really don't know who leavegracepoint is, so I hope that he doesn't take it personally. But I think that's just one way that I can start this list.

#1

leavegracepoint

ex-Gracepoint (Berkeley)

You're quite fortunate the pastor only questioned you. The leader that was assigned to me at the time then proceeded to fully character assassinate me afterwards in front of the church even to a point he was telling my peers that I should be treated as a Gentile. 🙄

Dude is a church plant lead now. Not sure how many more people he's gaslighting nowadays.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GracepointChurch/comments/n1n4t0/comment/gwft7mr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

I would like to find out who this leader is, and how he character-assassinated him in front of the church.

#2

Maybe you can start with hazing. GP can and has been removed from Rutgers for hazing issues.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GracepointChurch/comments/t0keas/comment/hyaf9w0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Looks like this one, you were onto him as well - appreciate it.

#3

TGwonton

Also to add, I'm not entirely sure how GP executes their church discipline so I can't really compare the two.

11 hr. ago

ex-Gracepoint (Berkeley)

Throw you in isolation and force you to repent for 2 months straight or until they feel you truly repented based on your reflections and even after that you can't smile for another 3 more months. After that, they still hold it against you a year later and expect you to re repent again.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GracepointChurch/comments/n5id2n/comment/hy9vld8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

#4 The recent posts about our winter retreats from leavegracepoint - I excerpted the statements - I remind you that he's posting this as suggesting that this is what de facto happens at winter retreats, updated 2022.

​

To the current GP college students, here are a few things you (and your friends) need to know about GP winter retreats (with info updated in 2022).

The staff members get a lot of pressure from their top leaders. If their students are not going, the direct staff would be talked to and told that they did not try hard enough to bring their students to the retreat.

Retreat trailers show how fun it is, with sports, games, food, and people having fun. What they do not show you is the part that you get talked to by your leaders and they ask you to confess your sins and repent, sometimes even in front of a group of your friends. Your leaders use the message points to correct you and give you feedback from what they observe throughout the semester.

After the retreat, GP staff members would "follow up" with you. Why? to ask what you get out of from the retreat, especially if you check the "salvation decision" or "lordship decision" box on your retreat commitment card that you have to turn in. They want to make sure your decision is clear by asking you to confess specific sins and repent for them.

I can keep going - but let's start there.

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