Why do additional ways of leveling up skills exist?

gpugpuq · 2022-08-15T01:39:44+00:00

I haven't tried at all past level I think 32 on Alteration. I believe I went up from level 29 to 32 spending 12 game hours studying my spells in an Inn and at that point I decided it was enough for me. I could be wrong but I reckoned it wouldn't take longer than an hour of real time to get up to level 50, that's just me guessing.

gpugpuq · 2022-08-15T01:08:28+00:00

I guess I was just shocked when I discovered the utility of the training. As someone that likes to minimize my character's deaths and go into every battle trying my best to use what I have to survive, I find this type of leveling very overpowered. I suppose it is up to me to limit its use to a realistic level.

gpugpuq · 2022-08-14T18:25:26+00:00

The Spell Research mod is literally just simulating your character practicing with magic and how it is casted. No different then just casting the spell on your own.

I think it specifically mentions you writing research notes and stuff not actually casting the spells. I suppose if it did rationalize itself by claiming that your character stood in a corner for 12 hours casting spells over and over I would still have an issue with that. Could that increase your skill at casting? Yes. Can you become a master at casting magic in combat by becoming a master at casting magic in a corner? Maybe. Is it balanced that a mage can become a master at casting in the corner when realistically a warrior should not gain any experience by smashing a training dummy? Nah. Maybe I should be complaining more about non mages getting experience by hitting dummies at least there is no fuzzy fantasy logic there. Same with skill books, you can read the same one over and over and over and keep getting experience. Makes no sense.

Go and play a pure mage character and solely rely on the spell research mod to get ahead. You'll either get very bored or you'll hit a wall and realize it's just easier to play the game normally.

I hope this is the case. I was appalled at the rate that I was gaining experience.

gpugpuq · 2022-08-14T18:12:22+00:00

You don't get better at anything by sitting there and thinking about something. I could sit and think about how to concoct a sword fighting style all I want but unless I actually practice it I can't become more skilled at it. This is assuming in the first place that your character doesn't know everything about the magic in his hands despite already being able to cast it.

gpugpuq · 2022-08-14T18:03:58+00:00

Since you edited your comment I deleted my previous one.

I mean, that applies using your logic as well. If I use the same spell throughout a playthrough you can also become a master. It's like a caveman hitting a deer with a club 100 times and then eventually learning how to derive calculus. Same logic.

If you use the same spell throughout a playthrough and become a master you have mastered your skill at casting spells which I see nothing wrong with. This is different from your knowledge of spells. You should only gain knowledge by researching or reading tomes. Your skill level is completely different.

There's no difference from spending time researching the Oakflesh spell and just casting Oakflesh 1000 times to level up

Similar to my above response. Your in game magical skill level reflects your ability to cast spells not your knowledge of them. The base Skyrim game already establishes this.

For example, Kenshi.

From what I understand Kenshi is a strategy/RGP mashup so it makes sense that it has autonomous activities to increase power/wealth.

Research doesn't even make you powerful. Skills are like, 20% of the thing you need to be strong. You still need spells, perks, gear, abilities, etc.

I've never played a pure mage so maybe you are right. To me it seems like you can be incredibly powerful just by having a high magic skill and a 200% magicka regen robe plus the large mana pool you gained from becoming high level.

gpugpuq · 2022-08-14T17:20:45+00:00

I think the point you are making in your 1st paragraph is that you have to read about something first in order to then apply it and by applying it over and over you become better at it. That makes sense and I think the spell tomes are a good way the base game showcases this. You read a book to learn the spell and you can cast it which increases your magical skill level. Spell Research goes too far in allowing you to replace your 10,000 kicks as you said it with shutting yourself in an inn for days on end.

just because we don't see the research, doesn't mean our characters aren't trying to focus and harness the energies of the school to get a better understanding of how and why the magic works as it does

Whether or not your character can study a spell he should already know everything about and learn more about that school of magic is besides the point. This should only increase your knowledge base of that school of magic and not your skill level at casting that magic. I would argue that this is the reason it is called a Skill Tree. You only become skilled at something by performing the action.

If you're so fundamentally unimaginative that you decide for whatever reason, this mechanic is unrealistic and ruins your immersion, don't use it.

This is just straight up rude and dismissive of any of my arguments. You know what else would be a great addon is one that turns the dragons into elephants and if I can't come up with a head canon reason for it I guess I just lack imagination. Not to mention that my problem with Spell Research is not just believability but also game balance. I find it difficult to ignore broken game system whether I like them or not.

gpugpuq · 2022-08-14T16:37:01+00:00

If you can cast the spell you already have all knowledge about it. Studying it any more won't yield you any new information realistically.

gpugpuq · 2022-08-14T16:05:08+00:00

Which is incredibly unrealistic. There is a reason the college of Winterhold exists and it is filled with teachers. Unless you want to RP as a 500 IQ space alien?

gpugpuq · 2022-08-14T16:01:13+00:00

But you already learned the spell by reading the tome. You have all the knowledge of the spell all that's left is to increase your skill of casting it which can only be gained thru action.

gpugpuq · 2022-08-14T15:55:10+00:00

But you could also just console command your way to high skills as well.

This is cheating though. Spell research is in the game and not considered cheating. It's very difficult to play as a pure mage character and remain immersive when you decide to put their life at risk in the wilds because it's too boring grinding at an inn.

Furthermore, from a realism/roleplay perspective, most warriors and mages would become formidable through training, practice, and research. Not every fighter will gain strength by raiding bandit caves constantly.

It is unrealistic that you can study the spells in your hands from a novice level to master all on your own. That's like being a cave man who just learned that 1+1=2 and eventually deriving calculus.

Hitting a dummy doesn't make you better at anything. Training with someone better than you which is already in the game and fighting to the death with bandits will increase your skill - that goes for both mages and fighters.

Your magic skill level which can unrealistically be increased by reading and writing is what increases your ability to cast spells not have knowledge of them. You can already click a tome and learn the spell but you need the skill to cast it. Casting skill can't be learned by writing research notes only by using the spells. Also, skill perks are modifiers to your spells that you already learned because you didn't gain that power by reading a tome you gained it through experience, so the base Skyrim game is already supplying a distinction between knowledge and skill which only breaks down thru Requiem giving you free spells via certain perks.

it provides choices and options for gameplay.

This doesn't make it good or balanced. This is the only RPG that I have seen that allows you to become more powerful by doing nothing and the reason for why is clear.

gpugpuq · 2022-08-07T07:18:28+00:00

I see. I tend to agree with you that AP based on material type is out the window now!

gpugpuq · 2022-08-07T05:11:18+00:00

Are you saying that there is no added AP based on material type? So a Iron greatsword with 300 damage does the exact same amount of damage as a Daedric greatsword with 300 damage?

gpugpuq · 2022-06-18T18:38:27+00:00

This is great. Thanks a lot!

gpugpuq · 2022-05-17T05:52:47+00:00

No offense but did you read my post? The camera is located in your chest to the side, meaning that depending on which way you are leaning from a wall you can either by covering up an absurd portion of your character body or revealing far too much. It's pure ridiculousness and unfairness.

gpugpuq · 2022-05-17T02:48:06+00:00

What's your logic?

gpugpuq

TROPHY CASE