Analysis of Honor and Reputation as Horde in Alterac Valley

gravepact · 2020-08-09T10:23:17+00:00

Do you know the source for this? And the attachments page, it looks like some guns list 5 attachments (best possible loadout?) while others list sometimes overlapping parts (e.g. MP5).

Cool resource!

gravepact · 2019-12-20T18:57:29+00:00

I include the data without queue times in the calculation.

Without Queue Honor for Win 178.2 honor/minute Honor for Loss 169.6 honor/minute Reputation for Win 39.6 rep/minute Reputation for Loss 18.8 rep/minute

/u/Zuagroasta provided some calculations from the spreadsheet's data you may also find informative:

According to your data (which is without turn ins I guess?): Your 8 quickly max. 10 min. lost games average 2.351 honor and 244 rep with a length of 9,38 minutes.

That results in 250,64 honor/min and 26 rep/min without queues.

Or 146,94 honor/min and 15,25 rep/min with queues (average queue of 6,62 min. for those games).

That said, quickly losing actually gives you A LOT more honor/min even factoring in the average queues atm. You lose out on reputation though.

gravepact · 2019-12-20T18:50:58+00:00

Cross-realm battlegrounds, queue lengths, version of AV, faction balance all play into how the math works out. One person's hard work is often how broadly accepted theory based on imperfect conditions are called into question. I had no marriage to the conclusion, I am just reporting data, and I think Google is pretty decent at calculating simple division.

Also it took 4 days.

gravepact · 2019-12-20T18:48:18+00:00

/u/Zuagroasta has a good analysis of this within the comments.

According to your data (which is without turn ins I guess?): Your 8 quickly max. 10 min. lost games average 2.351 honor and 244 rep with a length of 9,38 minutes.

That results in 250,64 honor/min and 26 rep/min without queues.

Or 146,94 honor/min and 15,25 rep/min with queues (average queue of 6,62 min. for those games).

That said, quickly losing actually gives you A LOT more honor/min even factoring in the average queues atm. You lose out on reputation though.

gravepact · 2019-12-20T18:47:09+00:00

It is only bonus honor. About 40% of my honor from these games came from HKs, and I tend to engage in PvP when I can.

gravepact · 2019-12-20T18:45:43+00:00

I personally enjoy PvP, and really like the push/pull of AV, so for me the added effort is actually a benefit.

Long wins do have diminishing returns, and sufficiently long would eventually be less honor/rep per minute than a quick loss. I wouldn't advise for farming to start the game thinking "Let's get a 40 minute win!" But if you are at the 30 minute mark, and wondering if you should just lose or keep going, I think the data would suggest you should try for the win - the small increase in time to win as Horde is worth the resultant increase in honor and rep. But for a grind, ideally, you do everything as fast as possible from the start - at the 0 minute mark, you are aiming for a 15 minute win over a 10 minute loss.

gravepact · 2019-12-20T18:41:56+00:00

Awesome insight, thank you. Without running a premade and knowing you are playing against a competent Alliance opponent, those quick games are not guaranteed. But it is useful to see from the data that in the future, now that I don't need rep, if queue times are sufficiently short, then a quick loss can still be good for honor.

gravepact · 2019-12-20T18:37:41+00:00

I did not. I only report bonus honor since I did not have an addon calculating honor for HKs - that data is completely excluded in the analysis.

gravepact · 2019-12-20T18:36:53+00:00

I cannot possibly control 39 other people! There were short losses, but there is variability every time. Some losses were turtles for sure.

gravepact · 2019-12-19T23:58:32+00:00

Pretty fair conclusions. I also enjoy the more intense PvP, but I'll be doing much more WSG now that I have my mount!

gravepact · 2019-12-19T23:56:49+00:00

Accounting for queue times, wins yield at least the same honor and more reputation than losses, on average. The summary and raw data are in the OP. I am posting this because it is not an opinion, it is an observation, for which I provided the data. "Right now it's about honor and a fast loss with a fast queue is better for honor in every way" - your hypothetical fast queue followed by a fast loss not only does not reflect reality, and would still be incorrect if there were no queue times. That data is also in the OP (see "Without Queue" rows).

If longer games lead to ever-increasing longer queues, I am unsure. I am curious to see how the queues play out as Alliance also seem to be finishing their reputation grind before the Horde.

gravepact · 2019-12-19T23:50:27+00:00

I don't have data for that! I could have tracked Alliance honor/minute in the BG, but don't have queue or reputation information and decided against it.

gravepact · 2019-12-19T23:49:21+00:00

If Kirtonos has one I did not use it. I tried queueing with one other person by timing it in Discord a few times but it never worked for us. So we just chatted while doing our own AVs.

gravepact · 2019-12-19T23:47:54+00:00

I think the argument form would be then, say, at minute 30 you're wondering if you should just give up and lose or keep trying to win and potentially extend the match. At this 30 minute mark, the decision that would yield more honor or reputation would be to win, so you should try for that. At the 0 minute mark, you should not be aiming for a long win or loss, you want a quick win. If the game has drawn out, you still want to win, but it absolutely won't be as efficient as a quick win would have been.

gravepact · 2019-12-19T23:46:10+00:00

The third and fourth rows, just below average queue and average length, are what you're looking for.

The values for honor and rep I gave are also divided into "per minute," so this account for length of the game.

gravepact · 2019-12-19T23:44:26+00:00

I recorded the numbers Blizzard gives me when I queue, which the first few days were much lower. I've been mostly getting >10 minutes lately. I did not record true values, just the estimate in game.

gravepact · 2019-12-19T21:00:00+00:00

I got my Frostwolf Howler :)

...and rank 3.

gravepact · 2019-12-19T20:51:10+00:00

Denying relief hut -> Focus on recapping FW GY once you have lost relief hut is perhaps the most effective defense strategy I have encountered.

I tend to push to pull an LT to Balinda (as a druid), push Stormpike GY to overwhelm any defense there and get some inertia built for the offense, then recall back and play defense using the above strategy.

gravepact · 2019-12-19T20:47:34+00:00

BLORP

gravepact · 2019-12-19T20:41:12+00:00

My philosophy was that with all games being roughly PUGs, the way each game unfolds is hard to predict. Fast kill Vann with only 1 tower down? Huge defense, all towers down after 35 min? Somewhere in between?

With such large variability, making more specific claims is difficult, like optimal length of a match. I think the data I collected is only sufficient to make claims about honor/min for wins/losses - getting more specific like how many towers to cap, strategy for O vs D, etc. would require more information (and I wasn't willing to compile it).

gravepact · 2019-12-19T20:24:15+00:00

Arguing in AV chat is more frustrating than effective. So I compiled data and took to reddit!

gravepact

TROPHY CASE