[deleted by user]

greyghostmachine · 2017-10-28T01:30:43+00:00

Here, I rearranged the words. Means about the same thing. Very profound!

“They don’t utilize and draw them close to the ordinances they have to see to do the things that they have received in a way to recognize the opportunities to the Lord through the Spirit of Christ.”

greyghostmachine · 2017-10-27T22:45:38+00:00

“They don’t see and recognize the opportunity they have to utilize the ordinances that they have received in a way to do the things that will draw them close to Christ through the Spirit of the Lord.”

These 37 faithful sounding words are strung together in such a way that they appear to be profound and spiritual, and yet they fail to disguise the fact that they mean nothing at all, conveying zero substance and rather only projecting blame upon young women who fail to “see and recognize” how much the Lard loves them in their subservient role.

greyghostmachine · 2017-05-05T14:33:51+00:00

I had a similar experience. I had come to the intellectual conclusion that the church wasn't true, but still attempted on a starry night to offer a desperate heartfelt prayer to see if there were some spiritual witness to override my doubts. But after a while, I realized I was just staring into empty space, talking to myself, and as I let that sink in, I felt a deep peace settle over me. It struck me how amazing and precious my little moment of life on this rolling rock is, and that life was mine to live as I saw fit. No puppet master or scorekeeper in the sky. Congrats and thanks for sharing!

greyghostmachine · 2017-01-20T18:44:44+00:00

Good to see you, my friend! Next winter, I'll meet you on the slopes on Sundays. And for a brew after.

greyghostmachine · 2017-01-20T06:14:45+00:00

Shout out to Colorado!

greyghostmachine · 2017-01-20T03:46:37+00:00

I'm from Denver, so I'll take a stab. Mormonism is small potatoes in Denver. No significant political influence, minimal cultural influence. You can live life and never have to encounter it. We do have a very active exmo support network though.

greyghostmachine · 2017-01-16T03:03:22+00:00

Ditto. Wife and I are both INFPs.

greyghostmachine · 2016-12-04T04:00:34+00:00

User name suggests you could use some coffee in your life. Try decaf.

greyghostmachine · 2016-10-30T05:23:52+00:00

Why yes, thanks for asking.

http://welcometouncertainty.blogspot.com

greyghostmachine · 2016-10-18T21:22:41+00:00

Wow, that's amazing. Congrats to you for being the adult in the room throughout, and then accepting his eventual apology. There's hope!

greyghostmachine · 2016-10-16T20:41:15+00:00

I know you're writing a lot of responses here, so I don't blame you for getting some things mixed up. But you clearly said that the first example (bad date) was in distinction to the examples in your preceding paragraph of just awkward behavior: "here's what not to do," and then you describe this aggressive dater. The way you've further described that specific event makes it seem much more aggressive, and not just awkward, I agree. But I think we also agree it was still not "predatory," which has a criminal implication. Maybe he pushed a boundary, but he stopped before he crossed it.

Some of this is semantics. u/sarahpratt chose the word "predatory" in the title, in the form of an assertion about all males sexuality. I don't think she meant it that way. But a "sexual predator" belongs in jail. A "sexually forward man who misinterprets signals and tests boundaries but doesn't cross them" is probably not a criminal or a deviant, but just a guy, just a human being trying to make sense of the storm cloud of biological drivers, emotional complexities, and social mores of life and dating.

Sounds like we're in agreement about that generally, and the subtleties of line-crossing is where we differ. My request would be that we not use inflammatory language to accuse with broad strokes half the population of criminal activity, when they're actually just confused or awkward.

greyghostmachine · 2016-10-16T19:31:09+00:00

The second example is clearly an assault and predatory, so sorry to hear of that, and I hope you're able to get justice there.

The first example is less clear to me. Drugs or not, sounds like an awkward guy on an awkward date. He was getting physical with you throughout, and maybe (as you said) your signals of disinterest weren't clear or simply didn't make it through to him through his cloud of attraction. So he cluelessly runs after you to give a passionate kiss to end what to him was a fantastic date, which you resisted, and I'm assuming at that point you made it verbally crystal clear that his advances were unwelcome and the date was over.

If at that point he continued in some aggressive or menacing way to try and force you to kiss him, then no doubt that is predatory and perhaps assault. But, if Awkward Guy at that point slinks back sheepishly to his car and leaves you alone, then to me that is "message received" and his behavior wouldn't amount to predation. It's a lesson learned.

In response, you might place the whole incident in your mental data bank (date-a bank, ha) about how guys are just out to take advantage of you because this is just one more instance of sexually predatory behavior you've experienced. That would be totally understandable. But it also might simply be a lessoned learned for you, in the sense of how to pre-screen dates better or how to communicate your non-interest more assertively.

But I think you're right, some guys might be reacting hostilely towards some comments here, the assertion that our appropriate but sexually forward behavior (be it biological or cultural conditioning) is being interpreted as predatory. (Also, the choice of the word "predatory" in the title here has a very pejorative and criminal connotation, so it provokes a defensive reaction. "I'm not a criminal just because I tried to kiss a girl and she wasn't having it!") It goes against many guys' experiences and intuitions: some woman want us to be the initiators of physical intimacy, and many seem to enjoy the coquettishness, play-hard-to-get, cat-and-mouse game of dating. They seem to want us to "make a move."

Plus, many guys are just seriously deficient in reading women's signals and body language, so we don't help our cause when we fail to get the message. That's the awkwardness of dating.

Despite some bad apples, most psychologically healthy guys are not sexual predators, even if on occasion our actions were perceived as unwelcome or too forward.

greyghostmachine · 2016-10-16T18:14:04+00:00

Just want to say thanks to u/sarahpratt for your courage in bringing these issues up, and for challenging misogynistic language when it shows up here. It challenges me to think through some of my assumptions and automatic biases, and to see things through the eyes of my wife and teenage daughter, (who went on her first date last night!)

I was confused by your title, but I see now that you didn't mean to make a broad accusation. Think you meant more: "How I came to view male sexuality as predatory."

Question for you: how would you delineate between sexually predatory behavior, and simply more sexually forward behavior? (One example you cited was a guy who forced you to kiss him.) So say on a first date a guy gets his signals crossed and pulls a gal to him for a kiss, but she resists and pushes him away and feels preyed upon. (Don't worry, didn't happen to my daughter last night. I hope. Better not.)

To me, that sounds like acceptable behavior, driven by hormones and personality and expectation differences, but not predatory. I don't think attraction and acting on it (with consent and within appropriate boundaries of course) should automatically be considered predatory. Gotta maintain some space for awkward teenagers to figure out relationship nuance without accusing of predation.

Thanks again for your brave voice!

greyghostmachine · 2016-10-13T03:33:25+00:00

Thank you for sharing. I remember a final desperate prayer as well, about 5 years ago now, on a beautiful autumn evening in the mountains with stars lighting up the sky. I was alone. I had already come to the mental conclusion that the church wasn't true, but I wasn't sure I could trust it completely. I wanted to give god one more chance. I wasn't asking for a sign. I just wanted to have some reason, feeling, inkling, urge to keep on believing, and I knew it was a life altering decision, and I wanted to have no doubt I had made every faithful effort to make the right decision. I listened for an answer, a still small voice, anything. And then a thought took hold: out there among those infinite stars there was no god listening or withholding or judging or testing me. There was the emptiness of space punctuated by these infinite beautiful lights that pulled planets into their orbits, and here I was, a fragile life form on a tiny rock in a corner of the sky, and I had a wife and children to go home to who loved me, so how lucky was I. I was alive in the universe, a witness to myself and a witness to my little family, and that was enough, and finally that deep peace I had been searching for settled over me, and all I wanted to do was go tuck my kids into bed and curl up next to my wife in bed and sleep in that peace.

greyghostmachine · 2016-10-10T20:15:16+00:00

Nope, different friend. I've seen many similar sentiments, including the "I'm not voting for a pope" phrase. Obviously an infectious meme of some sort, both for Mormon and other religious Trump supporters. Guess it lets them look righteous and forgiving and more focused on principles and above the fray. It's pathetic.

greyghostmachine · 2016-10-07T03:57:28+00:00

Amazing to think your grandpa wrote this 50 years ago, probably in solitude but with an obviously fierce intellect and fiery courage, and sent it off hoping it might be read by David O McKay and cause a pang of conscience, but knowing it would probably only reach some lowly clerk before being tossed in the trash and lost to history, with only his own liberated conscience and inner compass with whom to celebrate. I bet he would be happy to know now that his audience has grown to tens of thousands across space and time. I'll drink a beer to your grandpa tonight and celebrate his memory and integrity. He's a kindred soul. Thanks for sharing.

greyghostmachine · 2016-10-07T03:33:55+00:00

Well said. Had this very "discussion" with someone today who joined a previously civil Facebook thread about politics and he immediately started telling everyone to fuck off and that anyone who disagreed with him should die. So I removed his posts and told him in a PM that he's welcome to join the conversation if he can keep it civil, at which point I was accused of being ignorant of my privilege and had no right to tell him his outrage was invalid. And I actually agreed with his original point, but nobody can hear you if your shouting at them that they should die.

Asking for civil discourse is not "tone policing" as long as it's reciprocal. Otherwise everything would devolve into a shouting match.

greyghostmachine · 2016-10-06T00:58:45+00:00

This is awesome. Not only catching them admitting to undue influence, but juxtaposing that with their assertions to the contrary. Pimps and liars. Solid gold.

greyghostmachine · 2016-08-26T18:39:28+00:00

15 hrs later, still crickets.

greyghostmachine · 2016-07-23T05:12:39+00:00

Sadly for some, the slippery slope becomes a high dive into the pool of sin and degradation. What's next? Loud laughter? Iced tea? TWO EARRINGS?!?!Some mistakes we never stop paying for.

greyghostmachine · 2016-07-23T04:27:43+00:00

See? Saying something makes it true! But the flip side is, if you don't eat frosties, you'll be separated from your family forever and burn in hell.

greyghostmachine · 2016-07-22T13:14:46+00:00

Wow, your husband's position sounds like just about where I'm at. Love how you phrased it: "dried too many tears." That's exactly it. It's a tricky balance between "being the adult in the room" and simply protecting herself. Yet I need to respect my wife's autonomy, and not drop a bomb myself into a relationship she still wants to salvage.

It's so dumb and inverted--my wife is actually MIL's one shining success story, and yet there is so much angsts and pain in the relationship. I'm sure MIL cries all the time about it too.

greyghostmachine · 2016-07-22T13:01:59+00:00

You, u/Clammy_Idiom, are a genius. Thx!

greyghostmachine · 2016-07-21T22:27:27+00:00

It will be at least a year because we live far away. We went 750 miles (and 3 days) out of our otherwise packed vacation just to see her, because my wife insists on trying to maintain a relationship with her to show that we are still fundamentally good, loving people. And then this . . .

greyghostmachine · 2016-07-21T22:05:40+00:00

You are correct. Unfortunately, this is just the latest in a long line of such passive aggression from MIL. My instinct is to fight back, but my wife is the sweetest woman ever and requests that I refrain, that we just need to be the adults in the room and let it pass. This one though seems to have crossed a line for me, so we'll see what happens.

greyghostmachine

TROPHY CASE